Ask Me Help Desk - Can't Find Junction Box for Pool Light

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Can't Find Junction Box for Pool Light

Hi, I posted this on my pool forum, but I can use all the help I can get.

While resolving a missing GFCI on my pool light circuit, I realized that I may not be able to replace my pool light because I can't find the junction box that connects the pool light cord to the wiring from the switch.

Here are pics of the cord that runs from the switch towards the light under the concrete, a pic halfway to the light, and a pic of the garden area behind the diving board.

I believe that the wall was built at the same time as the pool. I have dug around in there pretty good, but haven't found anything. I have taken off the diving board and there is nothing inside the stand.

Could it be under the stand (in a cutout in the concrete), or under the concrete itself? The pool is 14 years old and there probably wouldn't have been any inspections :(

Thanks for any help :)

It looks like digging is going to be futile in this case, Wires can be located using non-destructive techniqies.

As an example:

Greenlee Tracker II Locating System - Cable Locating - Greenlee 501

Check in or around the post light.

There should be a deck box somewhere. This is a box with a black plastic cover and a bronze base. This is where the cord from the light is terminated.

As TK said, look around the post light and all in the bushes. It could be almost anywhere. I have had to hide them in some inconspicuous places.

Then again there may not even be one. I have seen more than one pool done incorrectly by not even using deck boxes.

Some places, the conduit could be 18" above water level. Not sure current code.
Do you have a low voltage transformer on the wall.
It may go through one of these:
http://www.nextag.com/pool-light-jun...ox/stores-html

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So true,

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanfortyman

Then again there may not even be one. I have seen more than one pool done incorrectly by not even using deck boxes.

Could be under the diving board pedestal, could be in one of these junction boxes.

First is above the concrete, the other flush in the concrete.

Thanks for all of the help :). There's definitely no deck box unless it is covered in dirt. I have even checked inside the light pole. I am very interested in that box that is flush with the concrete. That's a possibility. When I had the diving board off, I couldn't budge the bolts inside the stand holding it to the concrete. So I still wonder what, if anything, could be found under the stand. I will work on this at some point.

Do you have a transformer for light at pool equipment area?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stratmando

Do you have a transformer for light at pool equipment area?

No, as far as I can tell, the wire runs straight from the panel to the switch, and then from the switch under the concrete to who-knows-where.

What kind of wires are in the switch box?
Is there a black rubber cord with three wires in it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanfortyman

What kind of wires are in the switch box?
Is there a black rubber cord with three wires in it?

That wire in the pic is the one that is coming out of the switch box. There is another one exactly like it that comes into the switch box.

If it switching 120 volts , and the light is 12 volts, their must be a transformer between the 2.
That wire next to the quarter could be for post light.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stratmando

If it switching 120 volts , and the light is 12 volts, their must be a transformer between the 2.
That wire next to the quarter could be for post light.

I should have stated that the light is a 120v light. The wires for the post go around the other side of the pool. There are 2 other posts like it. There is also a switch near the step side of the pool for them. I've turned breakers on and off. This is definitely the wire going to the light. But I have no idea where the light cord and this wire meet up.

If correctly done junction should be above the water level or a leak can drain the pool.
You may have to remove power from the switch, place a signal on it and locate underground wiring.
Light may have enough wire inside niche to bring to the surface.
What is that conduit next to the quarter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stratmando

If correctly done junction should be above the water level or a leak can drain the pool.
You may have to remove power from the switch, place a signal on it and locate underground wiring.
Light may have enough wire inside niche to bring to the surface.
What is that conduit next to the quarter?

That is the conduit leading up to the switch. The wire comes out and then heads back toward the light.

I will check under the diving board stand at some point. If there's nothing there, then the junction box must be either in the garden or buried under the concrete. I don't have the tools to follow the wire, so I may end up calling an electrician, or finding someone who does.

It is highly unlikely that the box is under the concrete. If it is that would be extremely unfortunate.

The cord coming from the light is an SJ type 3-wire rubber cord, like a soft black extension cord. About four feet of the cord is wrapped around the light housing and then the whole thing is installed into the niche. This way you can remove the light, uncoil the cord, and change the lamp with the light housing up on the deck.
The cord enters the conduit out the back of the niche and goes on to the deck box. Like Strat said, this conduit is full of water and can drain the pool if it is cracked, broken or terminates at or below the water line. That is why there are strict rules as to placement of the deck box.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanfortyman

It is highly unlikely that the box is under the concrete. If it is that would be extremely unfortunate.

The cord coming from the light is an SJ type 3-wire rubber cord, like a soft black extension cord. About four feet of the cord is wrapped around the light housing and then the whole thing is installed into the niche. This way you can remove the light, uncoil the cord, and change the lamp with the light housing up on the deck.
The cord enters the conduit out the back of the niche and goes on to the deck box. Like Strat said, this conduit is full of water and can drain the pool if it is cracked, broken or terminates at or below the water line. That is why there are strict rules as to placement of the deck box.

Yes, I understand all about the deck box that should exist. But there is none that is visible anywhere. I am pretty sure there weren't any inspections done on this pool build. That is why it wouldn't surprise me to find something peculiar like being flush with the concrete.

By the way, this is an Aqualumin Nicheless light. It doesn't have the bucket that most do, but instead has a bracket that is mounted on the wall of the pool. I noticed one day that it was about 1/3 full of water. I took it up to the deck and got the water out. I put some Jacks lube on the gasket and it is sealed okay now. But it has a lot of corrosion inside and I want to replace it. This is why finding where the cord meets the wire is so important to me. I can't replace it until I find that.

Well, you got the most likely ideas of the location of the box, if you can't find it, then all you can do is connect a circuit tracer on the niche fixture and track the cable's path.

Greenlee makes a good one for $500.00 that would find it.

Greenlee Products - Greenlee A Textron Company

Can't say if any of the cheaper ones will work.

A good service contractor that has one should be able to track it in a hour or so.

Not sure if anyone rents these out.

Find this box yet?

I use a Progressive Electronics Locator, was under $200 when I bought years ago, Very Similar to this Greenlee:
Greenlee Wire Finder/ Mini Locator 508S - eBay (item 350123069238 end time Aug-06-09 10:02:13 PDT)
Great for locating wires, conduits with wires, the signal goes silent when directly over the wire, then do at about a 45 degree angle, move until silent(Null), where these 2 points are tells the depth. Many uses, locate breaks in Invisible fences.

I can't wait to see where this box is.

I know it was mentioned, confirmed? About weather the Pool light goes directly to Switch box.
Ever been opened?

Sorry no news yet Mr Strat, we will just need to be patient.

No progress to report... I did call the original homeowner but he couldn't remember.

I can verify that it doesn't go all the way to the switch. I will look into one of those locator gadgets. None of you guys are close to Morgantown WV are you? lol

This may take a while, but I promise to let your know what I find:D

Wish I was, love Problems.
What is in the switch box?
How do you know it doesn't go to switch box? different conductoers.
I would turn power off, push fish tape down conduit(load side? Still don't know)and see the distance it travels, can give you an idea without a locator.

And I wish I was in the keys! :-

The wires coming into and leaving the switch box are identical. The one in the pic is the one that heads to the light. I'm just saying that this isn't the light cord just by looking at it.

Did you mention the wire/cable type at the light?

I just know that these lights come with black cords. They come in 25, 50, and 100 ft. not sure how long this one was.

Same thing I was thinking of, can't think of anything else, except look everywhere from straight out from the pool light around to where the switch is.
Hey, you ever look under the Plant? I could see someone putting the junction there to keep the yard clear.
Also check back side of wall, On wall.

My box was under the diving board. Look inside the cover under the diving board.

Buddywiser, so where was the junction box for your pool light?

You can always try c02 or water into the conduit in the pool. You make a contraption that fits where the wire comes into the pool, turn it on and walk the yard until you see water or hear air. I do it with just a normal garden hose and nosel, and fit a stiff rubber hose over the nosel, stick it in and turn it on.

Oh wow, just realized this was posted in 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by poolgeek

You can always try c02 or water into the conduit in the pool. you make a contraption that fits where the wire comes into the pool, turn it on and walk the yard until you see water or hear air. I do it with just a normal garden hose and nosel, and fit a stiff rubber hose over the nosel, stick it in and turn it on.

Post is over 1 year old.

Nope, Still haven't found it. The bright side is the light is still working and haven't changed the bulb. 6 year, hee hee.