Interesting conversation albeit way off the original topic. First off, I'd like to take a position on labman comments. I agree that I am neither a electrician, nor an expert on the code book. That said, I have close to 50 years exp. Around electronics and electricity. When I was just out of diapers I ran parts back and forth to workers on the Major Deegan Expressway in the Bronx. Granted it was nothing more than take this over there. I was working under the table for Brown Electric Co.

However, I am reasonable competent around electricity and I do know when to call the power company or an electrician.

As to the code, my current code book dates back to the 1980s and I am waiting for the 2008 to appear at my door. I haven't had to use a code book since I left the field as an IBM tech and went to the R&D labs in Bocca, Dallas and Lexington.

I prefer to bring power to the overhead outlet and then switch loop to the wall switch. Labman prefers to bring power to the switch and then continue on to the load. It is six of one kind and a half dozen of the other as far as I am concerned. But remember on new construction, commercial or residential, the electrician doesn't get to decide. He has wiring plans that tell him which way he is going to install the wiring.

As to Mr. Russell, he corrects me when I make a blatant mistake and guides me on mediocre answers.

Oh, did I forget to tell you that I'm studying for the "Master's Electrician Test?

Don

One other thought here, has anyone noticed that the sizes of the rooms is still unknown.

Code calls for the calculations to start with the outside size of the room to determine how many circuits must be run. Once you have that, then you know what is needed to light the room from there you can determine how many lamps are needed in order to purchase the end user equipment.

Do you really think your blatant mistakes help anybody? I am sick of going through the plumbing, heating, and electrical correcting bad answers.

Then don't go through them! Stick to what you appear to know best, rearing dogs!

And let people follow bad advice from those that aren't giving good answers?

Labman,

Again, I'm perfectly willing to take up this discussion with you off-line of this forum, via e-mail. You and I squabbling back and forth is pointless to any useful forum item as well useless to you and I ever finding any common ground.

If taking our topical battles out of the forums ia acceptable to you, please send me a PM.

Can someone please show me a mistake?

Let's us all step back and relax.

Labman, please quote what don is in error of?

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Originally Posted by labman

I am very disappointed in many of your answers as well as his. We have a top notch electrician here. I would like to see more questions left for him if people can't get things right.

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Well, perhaps you need to know someone's qualifications before indicating they do not know what they are talking about. I am absolutely sure that one of them happens to have held many, many electrical certifications, and license. So just because you do not agree does not make you right.
Perhaps they do not agree with you if they were to step in on your area of "expertise" on dogs. But that would not mean that you were specifically incorrect does it. And it also does not mean that they would be disappointed in your opinions or views.
Take two aspirins and call me in the morning. Ha ha

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Originally Posted by tkrussell

Can someone please show me a mistake?

Let's us all step back and relax.

Labman, please quote what don is in error of?

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Hey and while your at it labman, lets see where you could say flying blue eagle is wrong. Well??

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Originally Posted by donf

Labman,

I have an obsession with switch loops? He defines his room as 4 lights and one wall switch. If he doesnt use a loop to tie the switch into the circuit how is it going to connected?

12/3 is a typo. 12/2 is correct, thanks.

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The big objection I have in this thread is his insistence on using switch loops. He doesn't even seen to understand you can feed the switch. In this, or any circuit, a switch loop may or may not be the most efficient way of doing it. There was also the careless reference to 12-3.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by labman

And let people follow bad advice from those that aren't giving good answers?

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Well labman, got to spread some around, but if you took your own advice and stayed out of electrical, plumbing, etc... you would not have to worry about it and have a stroke.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by donf

Labman,

Again, I'm perfectly willing to take up this discussion with you off-line of this forum, via e-mail. You and I squabbling back and forth is pointless to any usefull forum item as well useless to you and I ever finding any common ground.

If taking our topical battles out of the forums ia acceptable to you, please send me a PM.

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Man ain't it so. To bad. Ohh well, I guess I would just trust the "real" electricians here. But perhaps you should check with a local electrician for your local codes. And then go from there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by labman

The big objection I have in this thread is his insistence on using switch loops. He doesn't even seen to understand you can feed the switch. In this, or any circuit, a switch loop may or may not be the most efficient way of doing it. There was also the careless reference to 12-3.

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Then heed to donf's advice and stay outa these areas, and you will not be so upset. And 12/3 could be used to have more than one switch.

I missed this whole dilemma. I will say, I have never seen LabMan give a bad electrical answer (that I recall) and I have seen plenty of others in this thread give incorrect answers. It's not always about how much you know, sometimes it's about knowing your limits. Too many people overreach and try to answer a question when they really don't know what they're talking about.

Bringing a feed to a switch, then onto the light is fine, as is bringing a feed to a light and then having another cable going to a switch, a "switch loop", is fine also.

This is not a matter of right or wrong, but preference, depending on the size of boxes and how many wires can fit, and economizing on lengths of cable.

So what is the problem? I do not see anyone "insisting". What am I missing?

I appreciate anyone not being in the trade to inform the person asking a question that the answer is from a layperson. This allows the person receiving the answer to qualify the answer, and realize to take the advice with a grain of salt.

If someone has a different answer, then give it.

If a typo is found, note it.

If a piece of advice does not make sense, then mention it and ask why? It may be a typo or brain cramp.

Noting a few other items I found that have collected in this post:

A discussion on the max size of a fixture being 60 watts. Each SOCKET has a max rating of 60 watts. What about a 10 lamp chandelier, each socket rated at 60 watts? The fixture will have a total load of 600 watts, which is fine, but needs to be considered when calculating the total circuit load.

Most recess lights are rated more than 60 watts.

Found a comment that #14-2 cannot be used to "hardwire" to a fixture. Where is that stated in Code?

There is no problem using #14-2 cable to hardwire to a recess fixture.

Regarding different wiring methods. We all must keep in mind that this is a forum that each section of the country will have it's own unique methods, either due to local Codes, local weather, local construction methods.

While Romex is widely used, there may be areas that it is just not used at all. In Chicago, no matter what is being wired, conduit is the only method allowed. Remember the little fire they had once?

In Key West, being surrounded by ocean, most construction is masonry, and Romex is not preferred. Neither is any aluminum wire, due to the corrosion caused by the salt air.


My point is, while one may work in your town, another may not be typical in another, for different reasons. Hence the reason to always recommend that local codes be checked.

So while there is varying methods of wiring due to local conditions, there are also varying methods to circuitry. Pros and cons to either.


If there are any answers given that someone thinks it is "bad advice", use the Report Inappropriate Post button, and point out the information in question, and let me take it from there. When there are discussions in one post, I may miss something.

I wonder what the original poster, JLH2001, (anyone remember him?), thinks of this discussion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by labman

The big objection I have in this thread is his insistence on using switch loops. He doesn't even seen to understand you can feed the switch. In this, or any circuit, a switch loop may or may not be the most efficient way of doing it. There was also the careless reference to 12-3.

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Labman,

For the last time, I will even try using English this time.

I am not obsessed with switch loops, I have stated that on multiple occasions. However, I do prefer to install overheads that way. You are obsessed with power to switch then to overhead, That's Fine with me!

Also as previously stated, "12/3" was/is a typo. You corrected me on that and I acknowledged your correction as being my mistake. Guess what, the world didn't end because I made a typing mistake!

You know, I like what I read from you and more often than not I will echo your response, again I ask, why the ferocity? I'm not your enemy here. If you tell me I'm wrong, I'm adult enough to accept your response and go back to the book and see why I'm wrong. It does not hurt my ego one little bit.

For goodness sakes, I referee High School Basketball and Baseball along with all manner of independent leagues. I understand criticism is just one way of helping the poor guy. Just ask any spectator on a safe/out judgement call. They will tell you what the umpire did wrong.

Hey some good responses here as of late. And as far as me saying that 14/2 was not allowed in code, I thought that I had mentioned in MY locality it did not meet code. With that said, good day.

This thread is closed.