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Hey guys I'm looking into what id have to do to use a trained dog at work (security) I'm wondering what breed is good for the job and if anyone knows the requirements on my behalf
Cheers Bahamut
-edit should add I also want a good companion dog not just for work purposes, and if possible one that would be able to live freely with our current dogs
Are you looking to train the dogs yourself - and what is your experience in dog training?
Or are you asking about purchasing a dog that is already trained? And, again, what is your experience with trained security dogs?
A security dog is not a good idea for someone who cannot control the dog.
I happen to favor GSD but my local Police Department also is using Rotts.
What do you mean by requirements? I have no idea what the requirements of your employment are.
I have been searching, and there are no schutzhund clubs in my state, so I would either have to train the dog myself or buy a trained adult
I have had no experience with trained dogs, but my other half (shazamataz) and I have dogs as you may know
And by requirements I mean, I believe here in aus there are certificates for dog handling in this industry but I have not been successful in finding information on what one(s) I would need
I didn't know Shaz was your other half and, therefore, that you are in Australia.
I'm sure she knows all about training dogs, trained dogs, etc.
Licensing - I don't know and I can't find it.
Yeah she has a fair idea on it
And the certificate information seems to be a hard thing to come across
- And I have no idea why the Certification thing is so difficult to find.
I have always had GSD - they certainly can have minds of their own!
Trust me, he's been looking hard, can't find anything at them moment.
Might have to try and call a kennel on the mainland and have a chat to them about it. It's pretty unheard of where we live which makes it harder.
Just to clarify on mr. vagues posts, he's a security guard and would like to get into schutzhund so he can take a dog with him to certain jobs such as static where he is in one place for up to 12 hours.
Have been reading up and the most popular breeds seem to be GSD's, Dobermans and Rotties along with some other breeds we don' have here in Aus.
Here (in NY) they don't "work" dobbies - coat too short for cold weather and apparently they can be very high strung. (My parents had one living next door for 10 years and all you had to do is talk to the dog and it almost jumped out of its skin.)
Anyway - GSD's and Rotties work well together and, in fact, I had one of each together for about 10 years.
I think GSD's are smarter (but I'm a GSD person, anyway) but Rotties can be smart, too. Depending on the size (and I've seen some small Rotties lately) Rotties can be more threatening looking than GSD's, but certainly GSD's have a guard dog reputation.
Here's a good place to start learning how to deal with Guard dogs.
The Koehler Method of Guard Dog Training (download torrent) - TPB
Schutzhund methods will require you to import a Coach to train the trainers.
You might check with any local military personnel, I believe your Tri service people use K9 techniques.
Here's a link to the K9 center:
Dog Training, K9 Centre Dog Training Australia, Specialist K9 Detection Training K9 Protection Training | Dog Obedience Problems | Dog Training Australia
Oops, forgot to put my vote in on breeds. Can you guess?
GSD's and Rotties do well, also, but my recommendation is seconded by the USMC.
http://www.vet.utk.edu/wardog/
I have heard, but not confirmed, that you can purchased "retired" military dogs. Maybe look into that?
Also, german shepards are the best at schutzhund... also rotties are pretty good.
If you are looking to raise and train, I would suggest you find the best of the best for breeders. You want a breeder who breeds for this, has guaranteed trainability on dogs and temperament. Also, go to classes.. I wouldn't suggest to do things by the book. You need someone to guide you.
Also.. most of the police and military dogs from German breeders.. The dogs are imported from Germany into the US.. Europe as pure bloodlines.. You'll get what you want guaranteed.. if your willing to pay.
If you adopt a retired military dog you have to sign that it will be that - retired and will not be a working dog. My cousin has one and those were the rules a year ago.
Belgian Malinois is always the dog I think of. Bouviers would do well too.
Akitas are very good at it, but they are a cold weather dog as opposed to the Dobe's warm weather coat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sariss
Thanks for the input guys, I've always liked dobbies myself but obviously never had one
I also like akitas and our weather down here ranges from -2 to 30 degrees c so maybe an akita is the way to go!
Thanks for the link catsmine I've been checking out the k9 centre earlier
What are dobbies and akita's like on as a dog? And would I have to register a trained dog as a "dangerous breed"?
Thanks again guys and gals
Dobie's (one b) are velcro dogs. They like to be with their people. They are also very alert, which makes for good security animals. At work, they will go check out whatever they heard, deal with it, and alert you for final disposition. With proper training, dealing with it means bringing intruders to a halt and then barking. Other animals are toys.Quote:
Originally Posted by bahamut
I'm not as familiar with Akitas, but my limited experience leads me to think they, like Rotties, are a very vocal breed, using barks to chase intruders away rather than to let their people know about something. I may be wrong here, I've only known a couple.
I found this site that I don't know if you have seen. They may be able to answer a lot of your questions or put you in touch with the people who can. Schutzhund Australia
Dobies have the nickname 'velcro dog' for a reason. They want to be with their people. They want to work for their people, but if their person isn't up to being the boss, they will take over.
Besides genetic testing a responsible breeder of Dobes will also have them temperament tested. The animals are put through a course that has them deal with everyday obstacles from walking over grates to car doors and umbrellas openning suddenly around them and people approaching. Dogs that are overly aggressive or shy fail.
An asleep Dobie is still an alert Dobie.
Animal Planet has a series called Dogs 101. They are very good about being honest about breeds positive and negative points. Here is a link to their piece on the Doberman: YouTube - Dogs 101 - Doberman (full).
Hey Bahamut, have you tried this link?
What is Schutzhund, Dogsport. - dogs4sale - Australia
Dog Training, K9 Centre Dog Training Australia, Specialist K9 Detection Training K9 Protection Training | Dog Obedience Problems | Dog Training Australia
About K9 Working Dogs International, LLC. • K9 Working Dogs
Assistance Dogs Australia - Faqs
Just my 2 cents here, but to have a licensed guard or work dog, you would actually have to take him/her to classes with a registered trainer. And yes, you normally do get certificates.
If you train on your own, they are not certifiable, and that opens up a whole other can of worms.
Adopting a trained adult would be a good idea, but you have to follow their training guidelines to a T.
Of course I am going to promote the bully breeds. But don't rule out a mutt! :D They have some beautiful rescues that they are using at our local police department.
Good luck and welcome to AMHD!
I think an awesome police dog would be the Cane Corso... That would just look like the devil running at you with teeth! Lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky098
In my area Cane Corso's are used to guard drug houses. I thought they were too aggressive to be used as working security guards - but perhaps someone who knows more about the breed can answer that.
The two worst dog attacks I have ever investigated were by Akitas. They are basically bred as hunting dogs so I don't know how well they work (or would work) as a security dog.
He's madly in love with Akitas but will try and steer him towards a more 'practical' dog :D
He's at work... again... so will be back soon to check out those websites, thanks for all the help everyone!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
I've had my paws on a few cane's. Not at all aggressive. I mean I am sure they can be with the wrong people just like any dog, but the one that really stands out in my mind was huge teddy bear. His name was Bear, and what a beautiful dog. You don't see too many of them around these parts, but they do make great family dogs with an experienced leader.
They are of course a "protected" breed, and just like any pittie or bully be prepared to have fingers pointed and typical stereotypes.
Here is a blurb I copied from a breeder in Ontario:
Temperament
The Cane Corso as a protector of his property and owners is unequaled. Intelligent he is easily trained. Noble, majestic and powerful his presence is impressive. He is docile and affectionate to his owner, loving with children and family.
The Cane Corso Breed
Cane Corsos HAVE TO BE WORKED. These dogs need a job. They're do wonderful with schutzhund. Some are used as police dogs. They're not any more aggressive then a rottie or dobie. They're bigger and look a lot more intimidating. They're loyal and a "one person" dog. They'd give their life to protect their pack.
They're totally awesome. I want one.. my boyfriend wants one.. maybe some day we'll get one. ;)
I've heard bad things about Akitas as well. A little girl was killed by an Akita about 8 yrs ago.. Her face literally ripped off.. The dog was put down.. He was very aggressive.. I saw him.. He lunged at anyone who went near his cage. He was I think 3 yrs old. Something snapped...
2 years after that, I started work at Petsmart as a groomer.. My first dog was an akita that growled at me as I brushed her... That attack was still fresh in my mind.. Lets just say that dog still was shedding badly by the time the owner picked her up lol Oops!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell
I can't find any info that any of them are used as Police/security dogs. Do you have anything?
No, I've never personally heard of them being used as security/police dogs, aside from maybe a house guard dog. I'm not sure how well they work in a security type setting like in the Op's. On the other hand, they can be aggressive with strangers, and would take a VERY experienced Cane (or similar breed) owner to handle and train. They are NOT a dog for a novice dog owner. Maybe if they were worked, but it's not a typical breed (that I know of) for a work dog.
This site here actually lists the Cane as a working dog, but not sure on what job they have in mind.
Working Dog Breeds | Pets4You.com
How would you feel about a Standard Poodle as a guard dog?
Had to giggle at that Cat... whenever a male friend of V's asks what kind of dogs we have it's always "my fiance has poodles"... not "we have poodles" :D
They would be very easy to train though... pity about the reputation as 'sissy' dogs.
But as a bit of an update, yesterday he rang a local training organisation that specialises in security and they do indeed have a dog handling course. The guy who runs it wasn't there that day but he is calling back sometime this week.
And what was even more interesting is his boss rang the same company today and asked about dog handling certificated and requirement... the training company said 'we hada young guy from your company call earlier about that'
So much for surprising his boss with all the info prepared.
Turned out well though, his boss sounds really keen for it and if I worm my way in I might end up having a job as a dog walker/groomer.
I think a lot of people would be surprised if they knew what poodles are capable of.
In a way he did surprise the boss. Just not the way he meant to. ;)
It sounds like it could be a big plus for the company as well as V.
Good luck on the job opportunity. :D
Good job on V! Fingers crossed for your new job prospect! :D
Yeah the boss thinks it's a great idea, we patrol a pretty rough neighborhood and having a dog might stop unwanted attacks, and generally looks more impressive as well (my boss is all about presentation)
Im now going to find out if he wants shaz and I to spear head the project, maybe some interesting times ahead
Good luck to the both of you.Quote:
Originally Posted by bahamut
I think it sounds great and I can't think of two better people to spearhead a project like this. :)
I agree with Cat, couldn't have picked a better couple!
Aww thanks Cat :)
*edit* and Bella (you got in before me lol)
I think I found out why his boss is so interested.
Saw an ad on TV earlier for a competing company who now offer crowd control dogs ;)
Yeah he does love taking other peoples work, he seems to be very good at doing that actually
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