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So, lately I have been trying to switch Lady (my 5 year staffy boxer mix) over to a total raw diet. Right now we are doing holistic dry and BARF.
I found this article, and though it was a good read.
Any one up for a **civil** discussion on dog food?
I am not talking commercial brands here, I mean the pro's and con's with BARF/RAW and a fine quality dog food.
The Way of the Wolf – The Ideal Diet for Dogs
My Russian friend has a purebred wolf and feeds her wolf "Lady" nothing but raw meat and no dog food. Her godfather has 2 wolves and one likes dog biscuits but both eat meat as their main diet. She brushes Lady's teeth on a regular basis as well as her godfather's wolves teeth with a toothbrush. (Yes, they do put up with this).
As long as you feel comfortable feeding your beloved pet raw meat then go for it.
The article is dead wrong about wild boars. Lady eats wild boar and the 2 other wolves happily eat wild boar when then can. They adore it. Don't know where the author to that article lives but he sure as heck doesn't live in Russia with all the wild boar available over there. And yes, the wolves in the wild in Russia eat wild boar all the time. Geesh. Can't believe anything you read nowadays if you know better. And Lady eats cow meat happily as it is plentiful. I think that guy needs to read up a bit more on "modern" wolves before writing that article.
And as for feeding all the other veggies and fruits and grains to house dogs... all I can say is good luck to that as my Dink loves certain veggies but in very, very small porportions and not as an every day thing either. One day she'll eat peaches and the next day turn her nose up at them. I wouldn't waste a whole lot of time "cooking" for Dink when she gets along just fine with kibble and "people food" left overs that she begs for.
Well I have been at the center of a much heated debate whether it's okay to feed your dogs wild game. I happen to live in a province where game is easily available. I don't normally feed deer meat, but they do get get raw deer bones. I do feed raw moose meat, but only after freezing for two months.
I've always been told by my vets that as long as you freeze the game at least two months this should kill any parasites.
I am pretty consitant with brushing their teeth, but Lady and Max LOVE the raw moose over the beef.
I don't feed them pork products of any kind, and the one thing I had concern with this one website was that it said it was okay to feed raisins and grains...
I will only say that I cannot join this discussion. I'm the resident proponent of commercial foods. Y'all have fun.
Can we know what brand Cats?
And please do join in, all is welcome. Any point of view is welcome. Always love to hear your thoughts...
Ol' Roy Premium.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell
Yeah, Wally world.
I just wish there was more research done on certain premium diets, because I think they have a potential to get ahead in the game as far as with Vets go.
I don't know a lot about diets (and I don't claim to), I just know that some of the diets we sell at our practice HELP sooo much sometimes. (Animals liver/kidney values going back to normal after being on said diets, arthritis getting so much better on a joint diet, teeth looking amazing after being on a dental diet, cats doing good on urinary diets, then getting crystals if they change, etc).
One of the big companies of holistic foods needs to get in the game and get funding so they can do that kind of thing.
I think that's why vets tend to push towards certain foods (no they don't get incentives and/or free food), because of the extensive research done behind them to show how well they work.
That's my two cents. :) My parents Chihuahuas did great on RAW for a while. I feed my dog one of those 'crappy vet brands' because his skin is terrible on anything else (and trust me I've tried everything besides raw)
I know a fair bit about commercial diets, but honestly, I really know didly squat about raw.
I do feed raw meat, but have never fed a completely raw diet, I'm just too worried they aren't going to get the nutrients they need purely because I'm not adding the right ingredients.
If you have good information about what to feed (meat to veg ratios etc) then go for it, I believe it is a healthier alternative, and the dogs love it. I'm just not ready to make the jump.
I'm too used to listening to my mum about diet with the Great Danes... the food they are given when they grow up just has to be so precise it's hard to work out protein content and calcium ratios etc with a raw diet. Packaged food has it all written out for you.
So true Shaz, and if I had a giant breed, I don't think I'd risk my hand at giving raw a go, how ever, I think I might have the diet down pat, as well some added nutrients and vitamins from vet at a very low cost. I think I am going to make that leap...
Keep us posted, please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell
So far, the Hurricane is doing well. Coat, teeth, behaviour, appetite, energy levels, alertness: everything seems to be working. Next appointment isn't 'til Feb. so we'll see.
Forgot to mention that the Russian "tame" wolves eat fish particularly salmon or whatever they can get ahold of. They eat fish in the wild and just about anything they can come across such as rabbit, etc. If they are hungry enough they will eat it. My Dink adores sardines, salmon, etc.
I'm surprised that the author didn't include raw fish in his article as wolves do eat this in the wild. They stand on the fish to hold it down and knaws on it (when it's whole and alive). Lady does this all the time just like she would do in the wild.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinkiedooter
There were a lot of things in that article that I found funny. Also a tad contradictory. Especially about the grains and fruit. I mentioned that I didn't feed Lady pork, but I forgot about wild boar being pork (Duhhh, blonde moment), She does boar at times. My Lady is the same, one day she will eat a banana other days won't even look at it. To be honest Twinks, times are a little tough right now, and with the abundance of wild meat I can get my hands on, it's the best economical choice for me.
I thought I read that he said raw fish was a no no, which is another thing I found funny. My lady eats sardines, Salmon, cod, haddock and even smelts. Sometimes cooked sometimes raw. In anything I have researched and read I saw that fish is very good for dogs. I honestly think the author is a bit full of himself, that's why I opened up the discussion. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by twinkiedooter
Chloe looks amazing. Her coat looks soft and shiny. Just goes to show some dogs can do just fine on commercial brands while others can't. When I first got Lady she was being fed a mixture of Purina and Kirkland (A Costco brand), her skin was dry and flaky, she was itching like mad. I don't know if you remember but she was very skinny as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catsmine
I let her finish what was given to me and introduced Iams to her, no improvements, so I slowly started feeding a local holistic brand. I couldn't believe the changes in her coat and appearance.
I will keep you posted, and when I am sure of the correct "dose" I will let you all know! :)
In the latest pics she even needs a bath.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell
You would never know!
I saw a beautiful chocolate dobbie today. I never realized how striking they were. We don't get many of them in our shelters. I do see there is an active dobbie rescue here in Nova Scotia though.
Chocolate? Would that be the dark red-brown (called Red) or the lighter buckskin colored (called Fawn) Dobie?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell
The Four Colors
:o
I would say the red and rust.
Like this guy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell
Attachment 33004
Yes!
Consult your vet for a list of foods that he can and cannot eat!
Thanks lj...
LJ, most vets have no idea what natural foods a dog can eat, they usually only have a list of dog foods, not raw foods.Quote:
Originally Posted by lJ.
I realize that you're trying to be helpful on the animal forum, but saying "consult your vet" on every post, isn't always helpful. Like this thread for instance.
We always recommend that a poster consult their vet with any health issues, but a vet is not the answer to every question.
I'm afraid this is not a question about medical problems, so Doctors are of limited use here. We get so many requests for medical advice it may seem like the best answer you can give is always 'See the Doctor,' but in this case the many alternative diets are the subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by lJ.
Granted, the article Bella cited makes me want to hold the author up while every member of the entire Veterinary Medical Association slaps some sense into him, this would be a case of bothering the Doc unnecessarily.
I just suggested it in this thread, because I was in a similar situation and my vet had a list and it helped us. I am only trying to give my opinion, and what I think is best, which is sometimes to get help from the vet. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone by saying that, as I was trying to do the opposite, and make sure they knew they had that option. Just through my personal experiences, vets have helped me so much, and I notice some things in threads that I can say that I was in a similar situation and the vet was able to help, or that it could be a serious condition to see them, but just in the thread I have a list, so I thought that it could help to learn specific foods they can and cannot eat.
I do appreciate your opinion lJ, but this was just open for discussion, and not sure if you missed it, but I have spoken to my vet about food choices, as they have provided me with powdered forms of minerals and vitamins to add to the food.
Like has been mentioned before, the author of the link I posted seems to be a few bricks short of a load, and I was hoping for a discussion on how other people felt about raw diets Vs. regular dog kibble.
I do and always will consult with my vet when it comes to proper care in nutrition and heath of my dogs.
As for the list of acceptable and un acceptable foods, I am pretty familiar with this, as I have volunteered in shelters and am quite active in a Bully rescue organization here. Even though it would make life SO much easier if all the dogs were on the same diet, it's just not feasible.
My family has bred German Shepherds and as soon as I was big enough to carry a shovel and a bucket of kibble I was considered free help. :)
My parents are both very active in rescue now as well, and among our own dogs that we own, we foster a lot of the time too.
Again, I know you are really trying to help, and I appreciate your in put, and now that you know my personal experience a little better, I hope you can join in with you opinion on what you are feeding your dogs. :)
I won't say that. I will say that he/she has a romanticized concept of wolves and humans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell
Where did you find that 'article'?
Oh just web surfing. I was actually looking for more info on wild game. I have a friend who is sure they will get "brain worms".
Here's the thing, Bella is one of our dog experts, don't you think she knows about vets?Quote:
Originally Posted by lJ.
Your opinion is great, but I'm getting a little tired of seeing you post on a thread with the same old "Go see your vet" even though all the other posts have already said the same.
Most people give some info, some advice, but your standard line is "go see the vet". Yes, when a dog or any other animal is ill, we will not diagnose on this site, and we always tell the OP to see a vet, but we also try to provide some suggestions, some comfort.
I guess I'm wondering why you're posting the same thing over and over again when it's not necessary.
It's obvious that you love dogs, and that's great, but not everyone that loves dogs knows how to care for them, train them, or help them. If you want to participate on the pets forums, at least look at the posts before you post. If someone has already given the suggestion to see a vet, it's not really necessary to do the same unless you also have something else to add.
We welcome all opinions, but read the threads you post on, and than decided if your post is really needed. If the advice you're going to post has already been stated, than it's really not necessary to say it again.
Okay?
I do not mean to simply post the same thing over and over again, so I'm sorry if I've offended other users on here. Not all my answers are consult your vet, I help by giving personal advice in specific situations when I can, and I would always read the posts to understand the situation. I do love dogs, and my dog, and took great care of her, so I try to help other people do the same. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, so I'm sorry if my advice was not helpful, as I only want to help the user's animals.
You do help, and giving opinion is always welcome, and we do welcome you to the site. I know you love dogs, all the people on the dog forum love dogs very much and that's why we do what we do.Quote:
Originally Posted by lJ.
My only suggestion is that you not offer the same advice someone else already has. If someone else posted "see your vet" and that's the only advice you have, it's really not necessary to say it again. If you have something to add, than by all means post it. :)
I didn't mean to sound harsh, it's just that we care a lot about the info given on this site, and a one line answer that's already been posted isn't helpful, it can turn the OP off, make them not come back with more info.
I hope you understand, and I look forward to seeing you on the site. :)
We have a Pictures of our Pets thread. Can you post some? I know I cut Lady and Chewy and Cyrus some slack, and I think the Hurricane merits some, as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by lJ.
I don't feel comfortable giving pictures, I tried to once, but I don't think I would like to, but thank you for the offer. Again sorry I couldn't help, so I'll leave this.
Not to scare you.. but, my mom has a friend who use to feed the barf diet.. She's a real health nut and wanted her dogs to just eat natural foods such as the barf diet.
Not only did she spend $600 a month on food for her (at the time) two dogs, but she also had a lot of problems with it. No one really pin pointed the diet the dogs were eating, but everyone is much healthier right now that she is feeding, I believe, Wellness..
This lady went through a lot of dogs within the 2 years, one of the deaths was due to a chicken bone getting lodged in the throat, then proceeding to rip apart the intestines..
I guess it's a more complicated diet to follow also.. The dogs have to fast for an entire day. Also, when money is a bit short, you can't run to wal-mart for that emergency bag of dog food... They have to pretty much stay on it, or the kibbled food like EVO in order to maintain healthy digestion and not get the explosion in the middle of the night.
I have also heard, but haven't really looked into it, that feeding raw meats create more worms.
Maybe feed raw diet without bones? I don't know. I'm not really knocked out about the raw/barf diets based on the price of it. My dogs aren't going to eat better then me ;) lol
LJ, don't be tuned off, we appreciate your advice. I'm sorry I was having an off day. Your advice and opinions are always welcome. Please stay and continue with the discussion.
Is there any specific brand you really like for your dogs?
Lucky, LOL!!
Yea I know what you mean about eating better than me. I'm not really worried about the worms, as she is on monthly treatment. I'm going give it a whirl, so far so good. No nightly explosions, and she still gets kibble for training treats and when we visit my mom. She seems to be doing excellent as far as the transition goes. Fingers crossed!
Good luck with it!
I'm thinking about feeding the partial raw diet with the raw meats and carrots and what not. Maybe when I start making more money I'll consider it.. for now, they get their kibbles. :)
I want to feed my dog raw, I'm kind of nervous... If he was to get a raw diet it would be wild game (Deer, moose, bear, duck, goose, etc.), my dad hunts a lot and always has extra meat that he would give to me (its better than going to waste)... I'm pretty sure dogs can eat any sort of meat and live, what do dogs eat in the wild? They don't pick, "yummy look a pig, oh right we can't eat that". As of now Evo is doing great for my dog, everyone ALWAYS comments on his shiney/soft coat :), and his vet loves that he isn't over weight (She said it was the first small dog she'd seen in awhile that wasn't to.. heavy)
I might try a kibble and raw diet this hunting season to give it a whirl, my dog may not even eat it.
I don't think the type of meat really matters. I think chicken, beef and pork (dogs don't really eat pork I don't think) is more affordable, even though feeding raw is expensive. Bear, moose and other wild game animals would be a pretty penny to try and feed raw with.
I actually get wild game a heck of a lot cheaper than any beef or pork. I actually have a freezer full of moose, caribou, boar, bear, and elk. Probably enough to feed her for the whole year.
A person my mother works with gives me their old stuff too. So it is actually going to be a lot cheaper for me to feed raw. Especially when I was paying roughly $60 a month in food, this will only cost me for the vegetables, and I have a small garden that I can take from as well as I buy the reduced stuff sometimes right from the farmers.
I'll tell you one thing though, it's very time consuming. Last night I had just finished making and cleaning up a meal for my daughter and I, and I had to turn around and prepare another meal. I do feel like she is scavenging more, but I think she is just looking for more meat. So I have been tossing a handful of kibble in her bowl, and she will nibble a kernel or two through out the day.
She seems to be itching less, but if you can believe it, her coat doesn't seem as shiny. Was going to up her oils a bit more. My uncle who is a fisherman, has been saving me Cod livers.
So far her bowel movements have been perfect. Not as frequent, not as odorous, a bit firmer than normal, but over all awesome. Yes I just called her poop awesome. Sigh.
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