Well Ava and the pups are are still doing great :D

Some good news... we called the shelter to reschedule her spaying appt that was set for next week. We told them she was pregnant when we adopted her, and asked was there anything they could do to help.

They said once the puppies are weened, we could bring them in and they would vaccinate them all for free :) So that will help since it's such a large litter.

Also, Ava's top lip is getting red and chapped from all the licking of herself and the puppies... is there anything I can do to relieve it?

Not sure what to do about the lip, perhaps her own Chap Stick?

On dewclaws. Dogs are just as well without them. Owners more so. Even with good instructions, removing them might best be left to the experienced. No sense learning skills on them you don't plan to need in the future.

I would hope that MM will have the vet take care of the dew claws! I wouldn't even want to try that. MM, you should call the vet about the lip issue. I don't know if they would recommend using Panalog ointment to help heal it. Years ago, my vet gave me that for irritation that looked like sores around Ruby's mouth when I first brought her home. It cleared up the problem. I use it whenever she has distressed skin areas, small cuts & chapped skin in the winter.

I've heard from someone else that they used to remove the dew claws b/c when they were used for hunting, they would often get snagged on things & rip off! I didn't do anything to modify Tyson, Sasha, or any of the 11 puppies. We love them just the way they are! I know a lot of people like to crop the ears and/or tail, but I think it makes the dogs look "mean". I think they are much cuter looking w/ both their floppy ears & long baseball bat, table clearing, tail! Tyson's tail is a freaking whip! He can knock almost anything off a table w/ one swipe!
I saw the pics & THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY ADORABLE!!!! I've never heard that because she had 9 puppies, there could be as many as 9 fathers!!
Sasha had 11 puppies all from Tyson alone! And we had a mix, just like you! That's because Sasha's brindle & Tyson's rednose. We got only 4 regular brindle, 1 really really really light tan colored rednose, 2 tiger-striped rednose, 1 light chocolate reverse brindle, 1 normal reverse brindle, 1 rednose w/ a white stripe b/t it's eyes & down its nose & then one like your #7 puppy-- a brindle w/ white socks, white stripe down it's nose & head & white chest. So WE DEF HAD A DIVERSE MIX OF PUPPIES!!!! But they were all from the same daddy!!
I wonder b/c the vet said you might have 9 baby daddies... IF Sasha had so many puppies b/c Ty & Sasha made sexy time like 4 different times!!

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Originally Posted by macksmom

Ok, so here's the deal.

I adopted a dog from the shelter last month. They were not sure if she was spayed but scheduled her to be...her appt was for December 6th. This last week my husband and I have been noticing what we thought might be pregnancy symtoms. I asked around on here and finally got her into the vet today.

Sure enough she is pregnant, and is only about 3 weeks away from delivering!!!!!!:eek:

The vet said through Xray, they could see at least 2 puppies...but there could be more.

I need ANY and ALL help/advice on what I need to do to get ready!!!!

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That was really nice of the shelter to offer to vaccinate them all for free!! Most places wouldn't give a crap if they sold you a pregos dog!! They would say, too bad, it's your problem! I'm glad there's still some nice, caring people out there!!!
I KNOW that their first vet bill for their vaccanations is REALLY REALLY EXPENSIVE!!!

Also, the vet told me that most puppies are born w/ worms. I'm not sure if that meant most pit puppies or just puppies in general. So I would ask the shelter about deworming them for you too! Hopefully they will do this for you free of charge!

What I recommend to help find the puppies homes is. MAKE A FLYER w/ PICS OF ALL THE PUPPIES!!! Include one of the mother. Bring them to different vets offices & post them up so hopefully some people will buy them from you, so you don't have to take them to the shelter! Also, I posted a flyer up at Publix & Walmart.. And I even went to Best Buy & Circuit City & asked an employee to post up a flyer in their breakroom! I REALLY HOPE YOU FIND GREAT HOMES FOR ALL 9 PUPS & don't have to bring them to the shelter =/

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On dewclaws. Dogs are just as well without them. Owners more so. Even with good instructions, removing them might best be left to the experienced. No sense learning skills on them you don't plan to need in the future.

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I would hope that MM will have the vet take care of the dew claws!

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Oh I would definitely have a vet do the removing of the dewclaws... no way I would try that myself!! LOL

But I just wasn't sure if that was something necessary or just cosmetic.

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I didn't do anything to modify Tyson, Sasha, or any of the 11 puppies.

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So did any of your dogs or puppies have problems with the unremoved dew claws?

I will check with my vet Monday Ruby and see what she recommends for the chapped lip... its probably because I have a space heater in her room, and with all the licking and dry air. I just wasn't sure if there was a home remedy, like vaseline or A&D or something like that.

The vet said to bring the puppies back at 2-3 weeks to get wormed... not sure how much all that will cost, but I will check with the shelter and see if they will offer to do that too... worth a shot :)

My vet gave me a few numbers of people/organizations that work with trying to get dogs, more specifically, pregnant dogs... out of shelters. She said they maybe could help find homes for the puppies. I already have 1 for sure buyer and 2 maybes... but just never thought there would be 9 puppies lol, so I may need to look into advertising them once they become of age.
My vet said she also does pediatric spaying and neutering, so that would be an option if we have trouble finding homes.
It shouldn't be too hard to find homes though, because I am not looking to make a profit off these puppies. Just break even with the vet visits. It's a joy to have them, and Ava takes the most care of them... so its not like I was "put out" by them. So I will ask for them what I paid in shots, worming, and general vet care costs.

My vet suggested something that I thought was cool... she said the 2 numbers she gave me are people that work at getting pregnant dogs out of shelters. She said I could be a foster mom for pregnant dogs, and take care of them until they have their litter... ween them, then this organization finds homes :) I thought that was pretty cool :)

About the dew claws... I poked around the net some, and it seems to be an "it depends" kind of thing. Apparently dew claws run the gamut from dangly-mostly-just-nail to entire extra toes with bone. If they are loose dangly ones, you run the risk of them getting caught and torn in normal life. And those are fairly simple to remove, especially when the pup is young. The ones that are more like extra toes are less likely to be damaged by normal life, but are also much more difficult to remove, especially when the dog is older.

So sometimes it's strictly a cosmetic procedure, and sometimes there is a medical reason for doing it.

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Originally Posted by froggy7

About the dew claws... I poked around the net some, and it seems to be an "it depends" kind of thing. Apparently dew claws run the gamut from dangly-mostly-just-nail to entire extra toes with bone. If they are loose dangly ones, you run the risk of them getting caught and torn in normal life. And those are fairly simple to remove, especially when the pup is young. The ones that are more like extra toes are less likely to be damaged by normal life, but are also much more difficult to remove, especially when the dog is older.

So sometimes it's strictly a cosmetic procedure, and sometimes there is a medical reason for doing it.

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Hmmmm... thanks froggy... that is some interesting information.
I noticed last night that Ava still has her dew claws, my older sister has 2 yorkshire terriers and she said she never got their dew claws removed.

Guess I'm just torn as to what to do... I mean if it is something that most definitely needs done, then of course I would do it... but if its something that doesn't NEED to be done, and can be done later if I see the dew claws causing problems then I would just as well wait and see.

Ugh lol:o

MM, I would say to work with your vet on this decision. It appears that your pups have a bit more hair than most pitbulls & pb mixes. Dogs with very short hair have more of a tendency to tear the nail on the dew claw when running around outside than dogs with longer hair, which seems to protect it. Tearing the nail is very painful for them. If you live in a more urban area, I would say that it is not a necessity. Unfortunately, the older a dog is the more complicated and painful the surgery. It is considered a very minor and painless procedure when they are new borns. But who really knows that. I am of the school that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I don't agree with tail and ear docking. Yet, because of where I live, in the boonies where there are brambles & creepers on my property, my rescued pit tore her dew claws three times. It was awful to see her suffering each time. After speaking with the vet about it, I promised myself after the first time, if it happened more than twice, I would get it done. Well, she was about a year and half by the third time she tore another one. It was major surgery, very painful for her, and the vet who was supposed to be the best in my area, did a lousy job. If I had to do it over again, I probably wouldn't. But, if the vet I have now who I have full trust in, recommended doing it to a new born, I would probably have it done to avoid the possibility of future problems. Bottom line is, it is not an easy call.

Ugh lol

Well the weird thing was when we took Ava and all the puppies to the vet Friday, the vet mentioned the worming of the puppies and such but never mentioned dew claws. From all the reading I had done when Ava was pregnant I knew it mentioned removing dew claws within the first week of life. So when the vet was finished with us and getting ready to walk out the dog... it was my husband that piped up and asked about the dew claws.

Guess I will try to do some more research on it.

I would start with American Veterinary Medical Association, Articles, and American Kennel Club - akc.org. It is much easier to find material on the net about dogs than know if it is to be trusted. The net is full of sites put up by kooks with an agenda. Even otherwise well meaning people don't understand that there is better information available, and just go on repeating the myths of the 50's.

Dumb, dumb, dumb! I didn't bring the subject up at the party I was at this afternoon. The one lady there had the mother of 2 of the puppies I raised. The hostess breeds Welsh Corgis. Instead we talked about how to mark puppies so you can tell which is which. It is tough telling a whole litter of black Labs apart. I know years ago some of the puppies I raised had their dew claws removed, but not the more recent ones. If the dog guide school isn't doing it now, it must not be that important.

Thanks for the links labman :)

It is helpful to know, in the case of your labs, that they aren't removing the dew claws anymore.

I don't in anyway want to be neglectful, just wasn't too sure if it was needed.
Thank you.

Update for everyone... the puppies are doing great!

It looks like they have already doubled in size! Haha

Ava is doing great as well... kind of weird seeing her so small, she was big and muscular when we adopted her, then just got bigger and bigger haha now she looks really small lol.
But she is eating well and being a great mom.

She is seeming more that she is wanting some time to herself, away from the puppies... I will let her roam around the house for a little bit but then try to get her back to the puppies. And if she hears any of them cry she runs for them anyway :)

Well everyone can you believe it... the puppies are 2 1/2 weeks old! :D

I will post pictures of them in a bit.

Their eyes are open and they are starting to walk :)

A few things I need some advice on...

Ava is still stimulating them to go to eliminate (although they really don't need it anymore, I have seen them go by themself), but she is cleaning up after them and not taking them to the newspaper. It that okay to expect because they are so young? Is there anything I can do, now that they are starting to walk, to try and get them to start going on the paper?

Also, I will start weaning them next weekend. I wrote down the recipe for the formula flcutiepye gave... but labman mentioned not to include the egg. Should I make the formula or just buy puppy milk replacer at the store?
And should I just do milk for a little bit, or do you suggest softening food in it from the start. (I think the books said start with just milk until they all are lapping it, then add food but I thought I would see if anyone had suggestions).

They are all doing so great... nice and fat haha. I clipped everyone's nails today too :)

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The dog guide school likely knows more than most people that write books. Where do the people that write books get their info?

They skip the milk, egg, etc. Just wet the dry puppy chow down good with water. You want a soupy mush at first. If they don't eat it, get some on your finger and stick it in their mouth.

Since your box was so small, the mother may feel she has to clean up after them rather than remove them to eliminate.

Ok so no formula... just puppy food soaked in milk? That makes sense to me because they will still be nursing from Ava, just not as much... so they will be getting their milk from her.

I've read two differnet things, one said to serve the mush at room temp, one said heat it up... any suggestions on that?

Well as far as the box goes, I did what you said after she had them. I knocked off one side and put newpaper out that side. Yesterday, since they have started walking, we knocked off the front side and laid carpet so they would have a little play area. I just wasn't sure was there something I could be doing to get them paper trained.

No, no, no, water, not cows' milk. Cows milk has indigestible lactose in it.

I can't remember on heating it. Don't see how having it lukewarm or a little more at first could hurt.

Oh crap lol I meant to type water in that post... thus saying it made sense because they would be getting milk from Ava still lol opps :o

I see you have made 1434 posts. Any human will make a few mistakes.

I was told not to give the puppies cow's milk... I asked the vet about the homemade formula before I fed it to the puppies & he said it was good. I know that making the formula saved me a lot of money from buying store bought formula, but I also needed it because Sasha wasn't producing enough milk for 11 pups!

I can't believe how big they've gotten!!! They are beautiful!! They look like they are VERY healthy!! You've done an AMAZING JOB & should be PROUD OF YOURSELF!!!

Have you found homes for any of them yet?

My favorite pup is the gray & white one! Many of your pups have a lot more hair than mine did! It's soooo cute though!!

Yeah, Ava had 9 puppies but only 8 nipples... but she does a great job feeding them all, as you can see from the pictures they are fat :)

The gray puppy with the white stripe has found a home with my friend... of course all the puppies will be here until they are at least 8 weeks old. But she has chosen him :) A few more friends are interested. We just never imagined there were going to be 9... so we didn't worry about spreading the word too much when she was pregnant, trying to find homes.

But once they get of age I will advertise to find homes for them.

I think they are going to be pretty big dogs... I mean we rescued Lennox when he was about 4-6 weeks old and these puppies at 2 1/2 weeks are already bigger than he was when we brought him home... and Lennox is 25lbs now.

But they couldn't have been born in a better place. Since we live kind of out in the country, you don't see many small dogs around here... they are all bigger breeds... so hopefully it won't be too hard to find them homes.

It is extremely important puppies have a wide variety of experience before they are 12 weeks old. Undoing the damage of poor early socialization is very difficult if even possible. ALL the careful, controlled studies agree on this, or at most extend the time to 16 weeks. I answer more dog questions on another site than here. Almost every day somebody has bought a 3-4 month old puppy that wants nothing to do with them. It is just one more way the puppy mills and backyard breeders, that are no better, ruin puppies.

So far you have done an excellent job on a difficult task you never expected. Any puppies you don't get into a new home soon after 8 weeks, need to spend time with men, women, kids, etc.

Yeah I have read up on the importance of socialization, and have re-read things you have posted on it to me and others :)
I recently bought The Ultimate Puppy Toolkit which gives a lot of helpful advice and games etc.

I'm a stay at home mom... so luckily it is easy for me to interact with the puppies often. What I usually do I about once every few hours I go in and sit in their room and they start waking up to eat. I picked each one up and hold it different ways, pet it, etc. I give each one their own individual attention.
When my 5 year old daughter gets home from school, she joins the routine with me :) She is very gentle with the puppies, but I want to get them used to unsteady hands.
Then when my husband gets home he joins in too... so we all get to sit in there and let them approach us and make sure to handle each one.
Ava is still very very attentive and protective, so we can't take the puppies anywhere away from her unless we take them all.
I have read that I will need to start walking with each one around the house so they are introduced to new sights, sounds, smells etc. So I plan to be doing that soon.

Any suggestions you have with your experience raising, training, and socializing would be great.

I know it is going to be tough with 9, but I want to work really hard with each one so they become great companions and don't regress.

I am willing to keep them until I place them in a home. I refuse to take them to a shelter or pet store where just any joe blow can "buy" them. So I want to make sure I do all I can to get them well socialized and trained.

Invite you friends and family to come see the puppies. They need to see more than just the 3 of you. There is always some danger of other people carrying in disease, but it is a risk you have to take. Introduce them to terrors like the vacuum cleaner.

Yeah I have my family coming over for Christmas, so that will be a good time to interact.

I have started last week turning on the dustbuster in their room, cleaning up shreds of newspaper. It's not quite as loud as a vacuum cleaner, but close... figure they can work their way up :)

MM, you are doing an absolutely wonderful job! Good on you girl!

This might be premature, but I am going to put it out there anyway. If you decide to create flyers to help find homes for the ones you can't place, put the flyers up in all the local veterinarians offices, and the rescue you got Ava from. Just those few places should allow you to place the rest of the pups. I can help you with the wording of a flyer when you are ready, if you want me to. At that time, we can also discuss creating a contract that they must sign. Part of the contract will ensure for whatever reason if it doesn't work out, they will return the puppy to you. This will avoid them dumping the pup in a shelter or on the road.

Macksmom If I were you I would have them fill out a questionnaire, as to how they think a dog should be corrected, what forms of punishment they would use, if they have a fenced yard, how long the dog would be alone during the day, if they ever had other pets & if they still have them or what happened to them if they no longer have them. If you go on some of these rescues sites or call one in your area they may be able to provide you with a sample copy of theirs that you can tweak to your satisfaction. Not to say that they have to treat them exactly as you would yours... but there are some answers that would make me say no way.

I have found even friends and family views on how a dog should be treated and how I think they should be treated really varies.

Btw I have really enjoyed looking at these puppies thanks for posting the pictures.

Thanks Ruby and Bush... those are GREAT ideas. I want to be very careful and make sure they are placed in the right families... with people that really want them and can properly care for them.

The contracts are a great idea... especially including about spaying and neutering... that way no one is ever caught in the position I was in when I rescued Ava.

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Originally Posted by macksmom

Ok, so here's the deal.

I adopted a dog from the shelter last month. They were not sure if she was spayed but scheduled her to be...her appt was for December 6th. This last week my husband and I have been noticing what we thought might be pregnancy symtoms. I asked around on here and finally got her into the vet today.

Sure enough she is pregnant, and is only about 3 weeks away from delivering!!!!!!:eek:

The vet said through Xray, they could see at least 2 puppies...but there could be more.

I need ANY and ALL help/advice on what I need to do to get ready!!!!

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I have been through 2 litters of Malamutes. I used a large plastic swimming pool and blankets for the whelping box. I just changed the blankets after the last puppy was born. I used it until they started to climb out then all were placed outside.

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Originally Posted by fnyldy

I have been through 2 litters of Malamutes. I used a large plastic swimming pool and blankets for the whelping box. I just changed the blankets after the last puppy was born. I used it until they started to climb out then all were placed outside.

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Thanks fnyldy... but when posting please make sure you read all the threads in the posting... if you had, you would have seen Ava already had her puppies... they are now almost 3 weeks old.

Well the puppies are eating on their own now, and I think Ava is pretty happy about that haha. They still nurse from her a little bit, but not as much.

I know socialization is critical during this time... when should I allow the puppies to play elsewhere, other than their whelping area? Like in the living room or other areas? And when is it okay to take them outside, since it's so cold?

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I wouldn't leave them loose in the house. Perhaps set up an exercise pen in a room with a hard surface floor. If you don't have one, perhaps cover the carpet with plastic table cloths fuzzy side up. Outdoors is a good idea, but I would limit the time and stay close. You could have a hawk looking for its next meal.

The important thing now is people, men, women, children. Other dogs known to be healthy are OK to the extent the mother tolerates them. Check some of the articles at Articles I haven't read all of them, but most of the stuff on that site is fairly good.

Thanks labman :)

So hardwood floors are okay? All the books I got said no hardwood floors, so that is why I have kept them in the foyer/mudroom with rugs. I could babygate off the entire kitchen and they would have plenty of room to run around without risking cords or places to get behind and hide or get stuck. They kitchen is really open, but it's all hardwood floors. The rest of the house is carpet (expcept bathrooms).

I have no idea why books say no hardwood floors. Perhaps it is to protect the floor. Many hardwood floors don't have the industrial grade moisture cure urethane finish mine does. For about the last 10 years it has stood up to all the abuse the puppies could dish out.

Well it said no hardwood floors because of the lack of traction and the puppies could dislocate something if they slide or loose traction. In the picture I just posted, that is just a beach towel (we were washing the rugs) on top of the hardwood floor.

It would be great if hardwood floors are okay, because like I said, I have the entire kitchen (and its big) that they could have run of... I just haven't done it because the books said no hardwood floors lol.

I would be interested to know how much there is behind that slick floor idea. Sounds to me like one more myth of the 50's. Since we don't host breeding stock, I haven't seen the instructions for puppies. Although they often line them with papers or towels, I know my friends sometimes leave part of the dog guide school's ultra slick fiberglass whelping boxes bare. Many tile floors are just as slick as hardwood.

Are those the same books you built the little box out of?

FYI----Everything I'm typing below is from my personal experience.

I let the puppies roam freely around the living room, dining room & kitchen area very often. I put blankets on the floors & raised the air warmer so they wouldn't be cold walking on the wood & tile floors. Sometimes they would cry if they felt like they were "lost" & we just picked them up & moved them near their brothers, sisters, mommy or daddy. Other than that, they were really happy to be able to run around & play!! :) The only down side was that they would pee & poop everywhere!! We let the puppies all go outside in the backyard to play & they loved it!!! They all stayed together in groups & had so much fun being able to play in such an open space! I didn't have a single problem with them being outside... It was actually a little weird, but when they were outside, they would only go potty in the grass & not on the porch!!! It was summertime in Florida, so they didn't get cold.

As far as taking them outside to play, just monitor them. If they start to shiver, bring them back inside. If not, I don't see a problem with allowing them to go outside.

Personally, I do not recommend taking them to a dog park though b/c a lot of dogs there are not up to date w/ their shots & many have fleas!! I don't know if that's true for all dog parks/dog parks in your area. If you do decide to take them to a dog park, they usually have a section just for smaller dogs.

We actually let the dogs go swimming at around 5-6 weeks of age & they LOVED it!! :D We took all 13 dogs (11 puppies + mom & dad) to my parents house many times b/c they have a huge backyard w/ a pool. My parents also have 3 dogs (which are all up to date on all of their vaccinations) & we allowed them to play w/ the puppies & they all got along great!!! (My dogs always play w/ my parents dogs, but I was a little worried about bringing the puppies over there, at first)... My boyfriend, brother, cousin & I were in the pool area w/ the parents & one of the puppies walked under the fence around the pool & actually walked right into the pool!! (We were right there watching them to make sure he wouldn't drown). EVERY SINGLE one of the puppies could swim & LOVED it!!! We took turns allowing a few puppies to swim at a time, just incase the puppies got tired. It was a very hot day & they weren't shivering, so we let them sunbathe to dry off & also kept a water bowl that they could drink from! I was told from a vet that puppies instinctively know how to swim from birth (But I wouldn't recommend allowing them to swim until they can at least walk!!)!

I've never heard anything about not allowing the puppies to be on hardwood floors. We allowed our puppies on our tile & wood floors & they were fine! They didn't seem to have a problem with traction on our wood floors (for the most part... of course, sometimes they would fall, but they never hurt themselves)!


I would have to say that one of my favorite memories from the puppies was when I would say "come here, puppies, puppies, puppies" & then slap my hands on my knees & all 11 puppies came running towards me!!!! =o) =o) Do they respond to that with you??

How many puppies have you found homes for so far??'

Sasha is going to have her second litter in 2 weeks or less! If you'd like to see pictures, I'll post them!

:D :D Again, I think you have done a WONDERFUL JOB w/ the puppies!!!! :D :D