I don't think that I baby her too much. She has her alone time when I am home. In fact, she is sleeping in the living room alone right now. The reason I had such a hard time with it was because they didn't give us a cone, and I had to keep a close eye on her to make sure she didn't lick. She would jump off the high couches and make a little yelp when she did, and it made me sad. I am protective of her and she is my baby, but I try not to baby her too much.

It's hard with THIS face:
http://i26.tinypic.com/2127jo1.jpg

Awwwww... what a cutie! Sure can't resist that girl... those big eyes!

I love her stripe, right between the eyes. Big hugs to her, she's a sweetie. :)

I love her markings, people always think that she is a rat terrier, and it's annoying. :P

She's worth the time and effort to get her trained to stop barking, she really is, but aren't they all? :)

She's a cutie CM, give her a big hug, she's worth it. :)

Altenweg maybe you should re–read my quote before getting all worked up. For someone to say the dog/cat doesn't feel pain is just plain ignorant.

Honestly, if you can't deal with barking, why did you get a dog? Don't de-bark a dog. That's just taking away the first amendment: freedom of bark.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spinphoto

Altenweg maybe you should re–read my quote before getting all worked up. For someone to say the dog/cat doesn't feel pain is just plain ignorant.

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Your post is very hard to read, it's not very clear how you feel about the pain issue. If I was mistaken then I apologize.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spinphoto

Altenweg maybe you should re–read my quote before getting all worked up. For someone to say the dog/cat doesn't feel pain is just plain ignorant.

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I agree with Altenweg! It's very hard to tell what side of the fence you are on sometimes with the way they are worded! It's a little hard to get a clear view.:confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ajacobs725

Honestly, if you can't deal with barking, why did you get a dog? Don't de-bark a dog. That's just taking away the first amendment: freedom of bark.

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I'm not going to be rude, but please read threads before posting in them. I don't know how many times this can be said. I never said I can't deal with the barking. My neighbors can't. Nor did I say I was actually considering de-barking my dog. I was simply asking about the procedure..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spinphoto

Altenweg maybe you should re–read my quote before getting all worked up. For someone to say the dog/cat doesn't feel pain is just plain ignorant.

---

Sarcasm is hard to detect over the internet, I got it but yeah, it did seem like you had jumped the fence from your stance.

Fin.

I'm pro-choice. I don't personally agree with it and wouldn't recommend it.

Again, I never said that it was something that I was considering. I was simply asking for information on the subject.

CM I commend you for seeking advice and information before making any decisions.

We were going to get our cats declawed UNTIL we found out what that meant. I was still a kid, but my parents thought it would be convenient. My dad took them to the vet - they were already scheduled for the procedure and lying on the tables - and then the vet explained exactly what the operation entails. This caused my dad to do something completely out of character - he whisked the cats right out of there and brought them home. THANK GOD, because they hadn't explained to us in the consultation that they were going to chop of the tips of each of their little fingers. I'm sorry, but how could that NOT be cruel? How could an animal not mind losing its FINGERS?

The fact is that LOTS of doctors are just body businessmen, and it's disgusting. They'll do anything that pays for their membership down at the golf club and their vacations in the bahamas. This includes disgusting and unethical mutilation of animals for things that do everything BUT benefit the animals themselves. NO cat on the planet NEEDS to be declawed. NO cat claws THAT much. It's the same thing for dogs. By the way, consider that de-barking a dog is also - in addition to being unbelievably immoral and selfish - an extremely lazy person's cheap way of getting out a small part of the basic training that all dog owners are responsible for.

If you don't want an animal that barks, then don't get a dog.

so your dog pees on the rug sometimes. are you going to have his bladder removed? he chewed up your shoes. why don't you have them remove his teeth? it's exactly the same thing.

How would you like to have YOUR vocal chords cut to smithereens? How would you feel if someone else decided that FOR YOU?

At the same time, I understand that you are just looking for information, and I understand the hope you had that it might be reversible so that one day you could put her back to normal. Unfortunately, it's impossible to do. I commend you for coming here for information, as that's exactly what I would have done if I were you. Obviously, I've come on a bit strong here, but this is something that I really take to heart and feel strongly about. On that note, I want you to know that my post is for anyone who might have considered doing it, and definitely not an attack on you. I want to prevent it if I can in any way.

Some years ago, my ex's mom went looking for a puppy from a breeder. She arrived at their place, and there were all of these dogs mouthing barks. Not a single sound was coming out of them. They had all had their vocal chords cut. She said it was the saddest thing she had ever seen. I imagine it was also extremely creepy.

Do not, do not, do not do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by linnealand

we were going to get our cats declawed UNTIL we found out what that meant. i was still a kid, but my parents thought it would be convenient. my dad took them to the vet - they were already scheduled for the procedure and lying on the tables - and then the vet explained exactly what the operation entails. this caused my dad to do something completely out of character - he whisked the cats right out of there and brought them home. THANK GOD, because they hadn't explained to us in the consultation that they were going to chop of the tips of each of their little fingers.

i'm sorry, but how could that NOT be cruel? how could an animal not mind losing its FINGERS?

the fact is that LOTS of doctors are just body businessmen, and it's disgusting. they'll do anything that pays for their membership down at the golf club and their vacations in the bahamas. this includes disgusting and unethical mutilation of animals for things that do everything BUT benefit the animals themselves. NO cat on the planet NEEDS to be declawed. NO cat claws THAT much.

it's the same thing for dogs. btw, consider that de-barking a dog is also - in addition to being unbelievably immoral and selfish - an extremely lazy person's cheap way of getting out a small part of the basic training that all dog owners are responsible for.

if you don't want an animal that barks, then don't get a dog.

so your dog pees on the rug sometimes. are you going to have his bladder removed? he chewed up your shoes. why don't you have them remove his teeth? it's exactly the same thing.

how would you like to have YOUR vocal chords cut to smithereens? how would you feel if someone else decided that FOR YOU?

DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT DO IT.

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Sometimes you really do have to read back a few posts before you comment. She is not going to do it, and that was established many posts ago. I can't stress enough that everyone at least skim through everything that has been written.

I absolutely agree with you! I don't believe in declawing cats either, unless there is a medical reason to do so. That is why everyone has to carefully consider the conditions when they decide to get a pet! (hopefully adopt) You don't get them just because they are cute! They are not so cute when you don't pay enough attn to their breed, and their care, and then some people get mad at the untrained pet when it pees on the rug, or acts out in unusual ways.

Pets cost a lot of money! Everyone who adopts a pet shoud be ready for the expense and the time involved!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by starbuck8

Sometimes you really do have to read back a few posts before you comment. She is not going to do it, and that was established many posts ago. I can't stress enough that everyone at least skim through everything that has been written.

I absolutely agree with you! I don't believe in declawing cats either, unless there is a medical reason to do so. That is why everyone has to carefully consider the conditions when they decide to get a pet! (hopefully adopt) You don't get them just because they are cute!! They are not so cute when you don't pay enough attn to their breed, and their care, and then some people get mad at the untrained pet when it pees on the rug, or acts out in unusual ways.

Pets cost alot of money!! Everyone who adopts a pet shoud be ready for the expense and the time involved!!

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(actually, you must have gotten to my post before I got the chance to edit the rest of my response, which was literally just seconds after it went up. I didn't intend for it to go out unfinished. I always read the preceding posts, thank you kindly. Just the same, in asking for information, a fair response easily includes a moral stand on this particular issue, which is exactly what I had written in the part you quoted.)

Just out of curiosity, what exactly would you consider to be a medical reason for declawing a cat? End-of-your-fingers-cancer? Or a really expensive new couch and a persian rug...

Linnealand, you obviously don't know Starbuck very well if that's what you think. I realize that you are new to this site, and therefore you deserve to be cut a bit of slack, let me tell you, Starbuck is an animal advocate, as such she would never agree with a procedure that would cause an animal pain, NEVER!

There are medical reasons for declawing a cat, if the nail is deformed or causing the animal pain then sometimes it has to be removed in order for the cat to lead a normal healthy life. Declawing a cat or de-barking a dog because their habits are annoying is the easy way out of a situation that can be controlled with time and patience. We've already established that, many posts ago. It is okay for you to give your opinion, but it is a good idea to read others posts before doing so. Your position has been stated by many others, you can agree with those people to show your support.

CM has decided not to de-bark her dog, she was looking for information and alternative ways to get her dog to stop barking. Also, it's not her that the barking bothers, it's her neighbors, and that's why something has to be done. She has gotten some great advice from people who have owned dogs for a long time, and she's going to try those. CM is also a good person, I know this for a fact.

I just want to let you know about the people that you are judging. Starbuck is a personal friend of mine, I know her very well, and I happen to know that she loves all animals and would go to any length to make sure and animal is treated fairly and kindly.

I'm not trying to be mean, and I agree with your position, but it has been stated repeatedly already on this thread. As you continue on this site you will get to know people better, and get to know their position on things. You will see Starbuck and me on many of the threads concerning dogs, because we both love dogs very much. Now you know a bit about some of our members, and you will get to know more the longer you are here.

Have fun, jump in, but be sure to read all posts before responding, if someone has already stated your opinion then just agree with them. :)

Alty gets big hugs from me for the sweetness!!

Alty loves big hugs, right back at you CM. :)

Haha~~YIPPY!! Susan gives you a big hug, too! She gives everyone in this post a BIG HUG!!

Big hug to Susan too. :)

This thread certainly has taken on a life of it's own, hasn't it? Every time I think it's done, someone else has to add an opinion. That's all good, just wish that previous posts were read before they post. Oh well, what can you do? Just keep on keeping on. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by linnealand

(actually, you must have gotten to my post before i got the chance to edit the rest of my response, which was literally just seconds after it went up. i didn't intend for it to go out unfinished. i always read the preceding posts, thank you kindly. just the same, in asking for information, a fair response easily includes a moral stand on this particular issue, which is exactly what i had written in the part you quoted.)

just out of curiosity, what exactly would you consider to be a medical reason for declawing a cat? end-of-your-fingers-cancer? or a really expensive new couch and a persian rug...

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Yes their can be medical reasons for declawing a cat. I take offense to your reply! It was rude and uncalled for, "thankyou kindly." I suggest you read what Alty had to say, many times. I have had many dogs in my life, and the majority of them came from shelters. I have volunteered for many yrs for the SPCA, and Humane Society. I also do fund raising for a local shelter.

I would do anything for my animals!. and I mean anything, including getting in between my dog and a large vicious breed a month ago, when my dog was being attacked! I would have taken the next bite before I would have let my babe get more. I had to rush her into the emergency wkd after hrs vet for emergency surgery for her wounds, and because she was having seizures! She required 86 stitches and a 3 day vet stay with 24 hr supervision, and I didn't sleep a wink, worrying! She is not the same dog as she once was, and I refuse to leave her at home alone, until I can be sure she is back to normal. I have over a thousand dollars in vet bills, and the owner of the other dog is refusing to take any responsibility! The point is that I DON'T CARE!. as long as my dog is safe and healthy.

So please DON'T EVER accuse me of advocating ill treatment of an animal!

Also, it is not my fault that you decided to edit your post, even if you did it seconds later, although, I have my own thoughts on why you did that. I don't sit around on one thread just waiting to see if someone has revised their post.

Don't worry Starby, those that know you know how much you love animals, those that don't will learn. We know what kind of person you are, and we know how much you love all animals, that is very evident in all of your posts. You are a wonderful kind caring person, I'm not the only one who knows it. :)

Jeesh, sappy lovey dovey Alty today. Group hug all, come on! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Don't worry Starby, those that know you know how much you love animals, those that don't will learn. We know what kind of person you are, and we know how much you love all animals, that is very evident in all of your posts. You are a wonderful kind caring person, I'm not the only one who knows it. :)

Jeesh, sappy lovey dovey Alty today. Group hug all, come on! :)

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Awwww, shucks! :) Thank you dear Alty! Right back at you! I will dingle you soon okay? (Ohhh, that sounded dirty didn't it!. HAHAHAHA!) ;)

It did sound a bit dirty. Just to clarify, Starby is calling Alty in a minute, on the phone, for chitchat, that's all! ;)

OK, someone needs to break up this mushy mushy stuff!

I just want to add, some of us answer in a direct, matter of fact way, while others take a considerable amount of time, to go over every word, so as to not offend or belittle someone.

I ran across a guy on the radio today, on a show called handel on the law.

Anyone ever heard this guy, he is a HOOT!

A guy called in, and opened his question with "I took my dog to the vet and had him put to sleep", before he could say another word, Bill said "No sir, you did not have your dog put to sleep, you KILLED your dog".

The guy tried to argue, "no, the vet put him to sleep"! Bill says, OK, when is he going to wake up? Don't you know sleep is a temporary condition, you could put your dog to sleep in your lap, and he will wake up"! You killed your dog, you did not put him to sleep"!
"You need to learn how to state things accurately"!

That little exchange, reminded me of some of the back and forth stuff we see here on AMHD.

If you enjoy that type of personality, which I do, you should give a listen to his show sometime. Not only can you hear lots of good legal advice, you get some serious chuckles out of it as well.

CM, did you ever think that one little question, would lead to so much response?

I'm glad your dog won't be losing it's voice anytime soon!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Linnealand, you obviously don't know Starbuck very well if that's what you think. I realize that you are new to this site, and therefore you deserve to be cut a bit of slack, let me tell you, Starbuck is an animal advocate, as such she would never agree with a procedure that would cause an animal pain, NEVER!

There are medical reasons for declawing a cat, if the nail is deformed or causing the animal pain then sometimes it has to be removed in order for the cat to lead a normal healthy life. Declawing a cat or de-barking a dog because their habits are annoying is the easy way out of a situation that can be controlled with time and patience. We've already established that, many posts ago. It is okay for you to give your opinion, but it is a good idea to read others posts before doing so. Your position has been stated by many others, you can agree with those people to show your support.

CM has decided not to de-bark her dog, she was looking for information and alternative ways to get her dog to stop barking. Also, it's not her that the barking bothers, it's her neighbors, and that's why something has to be done. She has gotten some great advice from people who have owned dogs for a long time, and she's going to try those. CM is also a good person, I know this for a fact.

I just want to let you know about the people that you are judging. Starbuck is a personal friend of mine, I know her very well, and I happen to know that she loves all animals and would go to any length to make sure and animal is treated fairly and kindly.

I'm not trying to be mean, and I agree with your position, but it has been stated repeatedly already on this thread. As you continue on this site you will get to know people better, and get to know their position on things. You will see Starbuck and me on many of the threads concerning dogs, because we both love dogs very much. Now you know a bit about some of our members, and you will get to know more the longer you are here.

Have fun, jump in, but be sure to read all posts before responding, if someone has already stated your opinion then just agree with them. :)

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Hold your horses, my friend! I don't know how thoroughly you read my posts, but not one part of anything I wrote went into judging anyone or saying anything personal. I shared my feelings on the subject of de-barking and de-clawing. While there were in fact other people that agreed with position, my post included two personal stories and unique ways of expressing why I hold my opinion. Certainly I can't be expected to only say with whom I agree or disagree, right? :) plus, how many times do I have to write that I read the previous posts? I'm not really sure why you decided that I didn't. I contributed because I wanted to be helpful and informative, just like everyone else here. I was also very clear in being supportive of and nice to CM. I even said that I would be asking exactly the same thing if I were her. I'm sure you wrote what you wrote with the best intentions, but if ill be totally honest and tell you that I'm slightly confused as to why you have dedicated your entire post to telling me what you think I did wrong, when I didn't actually do the things you said I did. I don't want this to drag on - actually, I think that we are coming from the same place, and we are all advocates to the proper care of dogs (and all animals for that matter). :) granted, you don't know me anymore than I know you, but I can promise you that I don't have a single crumb of angst or personal opposition towards anyone. I'm a very friendly, open person. When I asked starbuck what she meant by de-clawing for medical reasons, I was asking because I really wanted to know what those might be. Perhaps my method of friendly, gentle jostling could have been misinterpreted, but that's not judging either. I was thinking that no cat is going to have 20 badly infected, ingrown toenails, and I was giving examples of reasons cats do get de-clawed. Anyway, thank you for giving some examples that make sense. I can't believe that I've felt the need to defend myself - it's rather silly. I really enjoy this forum, and I'm happy to be here and participate. I look forward to seeing you and your highly defended buddies in future posts. Just remember that I'm not the enemy. I'm a nice, friendly and open animal adoring addition to the site.

Progunr, that is too funny! I wonder if I could get that show on my online satellite radio? Yes it is funny how one simple question can lead to an ocean of confusion! ;)

Actually, now that I've seen just how many things you have had to say about me, not one part of which is justifiable, I'm beginning to think that you're just a little too interested in stirring the poop for no reason. You've actually used a whole page up with this nonsense. I'm beginning to take some offense to it, to be totally frank. Why don't you try focusing on the subject this thread was meant to discuss rather than putting jabbing little attacks where they don't belong? I know one thing for sure - I didn't and don't deserve being talked about in the way you've done. This is supposed to be a place of learning, not sophomorism.

[QUOTE=linnealand](actually, you must have gotten to my post before I got the chance to edit the rest of my response, which was literally just seconds after it went up. I didn't intend for it to go out unfinished. i always read the preceding posts, thank you kindly. Just the same, in asking for information, a fair response easily includes a moral stand on this particular issue, which is exactly what I had written in the part you quoted.)

Just out of curiosity, what exactly would you consider to be a medical reason for declawing a cat? End-of-your-fingers-cancer? or a really expensive new couch and a persian rug...[/QUOTE]


The bolded parts are what I had a problem with. I wasn't mean in my post, I never once said you weren't a nice person or that you didn't have a right to express your point of view, you do, but reiterating what others have already said isn't productive or helpful, I am also guilty of doing it, but to insult Starby when she called you on it wasn't okay.

My main reason to post was to let you know what kind of people you are dealing with, and insinuating that Starby would declaw a cat because of a new couch or a persian rug was insulting. Sorry if you took it the wrong way, I do apologize, I certainly never meant to imply that you weren't a nice person. I was letting you know who we are and what we stand for, you'll figure that out the longer you are on this site, and I welcome your opinion, as I welcome everyone else's opinion. I may not always agree, I'm not always agreed with either.

Anyway, let's let it go, I never meant for this to turn in to a fight. Let's just drop it, obviously I misread your post and you misread mine, done, okay?

I look forward to seeing you on other threads, no hard feelings on my part.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by linnealand

hold your horses, my friend! i don't know how thoroughly you read my posts, but not one part of anything i wrote went into judging anyone or saying anything personal. i shared my feelings on the subject of de-barking and de-clawing. while there were in fact other people that agreed with position, my post included two personal stories and unique ways of expressing why i hold my opinion. certainly i can't be expected to only say with whom i agree or disagree, right? :) plus, how many times do i have to write that i read the previous posts? i'm not really sure why you decided that i didn't. i contributed because i wanted to be helpful and informative, just like everyone else here. i was also very clear in being supportive of and nice to CM. i even said that i would be asking exactly the same thing if i were her. i'm sure you wrote what you wrote with the best intentions, but if ill be totally honest and tell you that i'm slightly confused as to why you have dedicated your entire post to telling me what you think i did wrong, when i didn't actually do the things you said i did. i don't want this to drag on - actually, i think that we are coming from the same place, and we are all advocates to the proper care of dogs (and all animals for that matter). :) granted, you don't know me anymore than i know you, but i can promise you that i don't have a single crumb of angst or personal opposition towards anyone. i'm a very friendly, open person. when i asked starbuck what she meant by de-clawing for medical reasons, i was asking because i really wanted to know what those might be. perhaps my method of friendly, gentle jostling could have been misinterpreted, but that's not judging either. i was thinking that no cat is going to have 20 badly infected, ingrown toenails, and i was giving examples of reasons why cats do get de-clawed. anyway, thank you for giving some examples that make sense. i can't believe that i've felt the need to defend myself - it's rather silly. i really enjoy this forum, and i'm happy to be here and participate. i look forward to seeing you and your highly defended buddies in future posts. just remember that i'm not the enemy. i'm a nice, friendly and open animal adoring addition to the site.

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Things can be subject to misinterpretation. It really did sound as if you were being insulting towards me, and that is why my friends jumped in. If anything was misinterpreted in anything you said, I appologize.

I also am a very kind and fair person. I only commented on your post to kindly point out to read the other posts. The reason I thought you didn't read the other posts was because you thought that debarking was still an option for CM. If I would have known that it was going to start this, I wouldn't have bothered to comment.

I only wrote it because I have been on this site for quite sometime, and I do run across new members on a daily basis, who don't read the date of the post, they don't read the question thouroughly, they don't read previous posts, etc. I was only trying to help you out.

Just one more thing, and this is not meant in a harsh tone either, please try and use punctuation, spaces, and paragraphs. It does make it much easier for us to read.

WOW!

Hey, when I said we need to put an end to the mushy mushy stuff, this is not what I meant!

"Can't we all just get along"?

It is easy to misinterpret things when you can't see a face, or hear a tone of voice.

As we answer, we are actually "speaking" our posts, in our heads.

What we don't realize, is that no one else can "hear" how we "intend" for the words to sound. Here, they are nothing more than black letters on a white background, there is no way to inject the "color" that we may intend for those words to have.

I think you have all settled this one, just wanted to say, maybe the mushy mushy isn't so bad after all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by linnealand

actually, now that i've seen just how many things you have had to say about me, not one part of which is justifiable, i'm beginning to think that you're just a little too interested in stirring the poop for no reason. you've actually used a whole page up with this nonsense. i'm beginning to take some offense to it, to be totally frank. why don't you try focusing on the subject this thread was meant to discuss rather than putting jabbing little attacks where they don't belong? i know one thing for sure - i didn't and don't deserve being talked about in the way you've done. this is supposed to be a place of learning, not sophomorism.

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I wasn't actually talking about you, although reading back I can see how it might be interpreted that way, once again I do apologize if you took anything I said as an insult to you personally.

I do at times stir the poop, I will admit to that, but I haven't done it on this thread, at least not intentionally. CM and Starby are good friends, I've know them for quite some time, not in person, but on this site.

The reason that we did ask you to read all previous posts was because it didn't sound like you had. Also, it's a good idea to check the date on posts, this one was pretty much considered done, it was a bit surprising to see that someone posted again. CM has made her decision, it's a done deal, and to dredge it all up again wasn't necessary.

Should I have stuck up for Starby, I believe yes, that's what friends do. Anyway, I do apologize if it sounded like I was talking badly about you, not my intention. Having said that, please PM me if you have anything to add, let's not use this thread as a place to argue with each other.

Thank you.

La-la-la-la-la-la... I agree... "Can't we all just get alonggggggggg??"

People understand eachother's points of view and opinions... and mine.

And heck no, I didn't think one question would stir up such a ruckus. Although I should have being as its very controversial. I was prepared to defend myself assuming that other people would assume that it was something I had already planned to do or had already done.

I really would like if a mod or admin came in here and closed this post...

As the OP you can request that CM, although I don't know how to go about it, maybe just email Rick J and request it be closed.

Really? Darn, there are so many things that I don't know...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChihuahuaMomma

Really? Darn, there are so many things that I don't know....

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Learn something new every day, and when you figure it out tell me. ;)

Maybe this will help:
http://i32.tinypic.com/34pz2ja.jpgSusan loves you (and her voice). She says, "Stop the arguing and start the cuddling!!"