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Apparently he isn't easy to train or you wouldn't be "here."Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmingNana
And please don't assume you are the only person who lives in the Country.
And city dogs don't "sit inside all the time."
You didn't want to be judged. Well, you just judged a "bunch" of us. All we know is what you posted - and that's what we answered.
I never said I was the only one who lives in the country. Most country dogs do spend more time outside than dogs in town. I'm sure you know this, that makes sense. I should've stated the reason he was put outside. I didn't mean to judge anyone, I just didn't like people assuming we were bad animal owners. Our animals are very well taken care of.Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
I live in the country, and my dogs don't spend a lot of time outside. Coyotes, cars and people who want to poison dogs are running rampant here. I would think that "country" dogs should spend more time inside than city dogs just because of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmingNana
I never said you were a bad dog owner. I'm sure you care for your animals quite well.. however; there are some puppies that need experienced handlers, not owners. There is a huge difference.
I do not agree with putting the puppy outside at 10/12 weeks old. They are still babies. They need a pack environment... and I'm sorry, you cannot establish that with him outside and you inside. Unless you practically live outside, there is no way you can do it.
You're puppy needs some obedience classes. It establishes a relationship and bond with your dog.
I work at a vet clinic, there are many alpaca farms where I live.. all of those dogs are ill-mannered and horrible to work with... and they're close to 100lbs.. all of them.
Bottom line is.. in order to have a well behaved dog in all situations, you need to establish who is in charge, what is right and wrong and how to behave around ALL people...
Banishing to the great outdoors is very poor ownership.. I don't care what your reasons are behind it. I understand some dogs are outdoor dogs, but at 10wks of age, I doubt he is happy sleeping by himself at night. Puppies don't really start separating from everyone until 6-8months of age.
I have to disagree with some of your opinions. There are ways to keep your dog safe outside. We have owned dogs all my life and I have always lived on a farm. Our dogs have always been very well behaved. Get along great with people and animals. I was always taught that when people ask if your dog bites that you can't say no because you never know what an animal will do in certain circumstances. So I tell people that they have never bitten before. Animals are animals and there are always exceptions to the rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky098
Not that it really matters, but he is 15 weeks not 10. I work obedience training with him every night and when I'm home in the mornings every morning. You are just determined that this puppy is doomed. It couldn't be farther from the truth. If you work with animals you should know that some are going to overcome the odds.
So, you can go on saying he needs help but I can assure you he is doing quite well with his routine. He loves playing in his pool, swinging and he goes in his crate at night ready for bed. He knows whose in charge. We are through the biting and well on our way to a long and happy relationship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmingNana
Once again "someone" asks for advice because she apparently needs/wants advice and then has an argument against every opinion.
In this instance you are arguing against a well-respected member who is citing her experience AND education.
I can only speak for myself. I don't know you. I don't know your dog. I only know what you posted. Re-read it. The dog was biting, now it's outside. That's pretty much the heart of things. He passed through the biting stage in a couple of days OR you posted prematurely OR you are just saying that to shut off advice you don't want to hear.
Why did you post the question if you already had the answer?
He was biting more than a few days. I just wanted opinions on how to get him to stop not judgement on what a bad dog owner I am for putting him outside. I don't mind the advice, whether I agree or not. But people saying I got the puppy too early, he didn't have enough time with the mother. I understand that but I had no choice. The family couldn't keep the dogs and had to get rid of them. It was take him or he was going to die. The puppy had never even been in a house. They had them outside. We did have him inside for a few weeks and would take him out more and more. Until he got to where he didn't really want to come in. Thanks to those who gave their opinions, some were very helpful. I am going to purchase a cage muzzle to have on hand in case I might need it in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmingNana
Good, I hope it works out. I've never had a dog that didn't want to come inside, but I supposed they are all different.
Good luck.
Well this is a new record. We cured the dog of aggression in only a few days.
All joking aside, I wish you the best. I know it's hard to take advice on dog behavior because it almost always feels like you are under attack, no one wants to feel like they are bad pet owners, and no one wants to hear that they MIGHT be doing something wrong that encourages their pets bad behavior. I do wish you the best of luck, and if you continue to have problems I really do hope you come back. Believe it or not, we are all very experienced pet owners and a few of us are in school studying animal care/behavior. We only want the best for you and your dog. The last thing we want to see is another dog whose owners gave up on them. Not saying you are, but that really is reality in the rescue biz.
I haven't read all the posts. Too many, and I don't have time.
I saw bits and pieces, and from those bits and pieces I am gathering that the OP has made this puppy an outdoor dog.
My question is this. Do you want a pet dog, or a lawn ornament?
A dog that is sequestered to live outdoor because the owner doesn't have the knowledge to train it, is better of with someone that's willing to put in the time and effort.
To me it sounds like this was an impulse buy, and the OP didn't know, and wasn't able to handle, the challenge of having a dog in his/her life.
A dog that's not a part of the family, part of the pack, that's banished to the backyard because the owner can't handle it, is better off in a new home with an experienced owner.
Again, I didn't read all the posts. If this has already been mentioned, I apologize. If this is not what's actually happening, if the thread went off track because of another poster, I apologize.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alty
No, you pretty much had it right BUT the dog was a rescue.
My concern? Dog was biting and out of control. Dog found itself living outside. Next thing we knew in three days the dog wanted to be outside, didn't want to come in and stopped biting.
It's frustrating to try to help and then have the question modified to suit the answer.
Very frustrating.Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
I've had dogs all my life. I worked in rescue for years. I have yet to meet a dog that prefers to be outside, alone, without companionship.
I call bull on this one. Big time!
I'd bet money that this is a case of the OP (original poster) changing the story so we don't think he/she is a horrible person for deciding to banish the dog outside, instead of finding the dog a home where it can be the dog it's meant to be. The dog stopped biting since it was jailed outside, because you're not outside with the dog! That doesn't mean the dog is happy. It means that you gave up, and the dog is paying the price!
It's laziness, and lack of education. If you don't know dogs, don't get one! Especially don't get a rescue with issues unless you're willing to put in the work, the effort, and accept that you may not be able to change anything. :(
ALL puppies bite. Like babies, the feel everything - explore their new world - with their mouths. They need to be cared for and taught. The behavior is not acceptable, so they have to be taught what is OK for them to put their mouths on and what isn't.
Puppies need chew toys or they will chew on unacceptable things. Your vet or a good pet store can advise you on this. They also need puppy classes to train the owner as much as the dog.
Judy is right that banishing the puppy is the wrong thing to do. You need to learn how to interact with the puppy and let him become part of the family. You also need to learn how to issue gentle but impactful correction to stop unacceptable behaviors of all kinds. When you banish the dog, he does not become part of the family as a member of your "pack" and he does not learn his place in the pecking order. If you are mean to the dog, he will react in fear and scared dogs bite, among other undesirable traits.
It sounds like you don't really have an understanding of dogs - how to care for the, train them, choose a breed that's right for your family and lifestyle. If you aren't willing and eager to learn immediately and take some concrete advise and implement it with a passion, she is also right that you should find a different home for the dog, with experienced dog owners.
There's a saying "it's not the dog, it's the owner". Most bad dog behavior is the result of bad owner behavior - not usually intentional but due to a lack of intent to train the dog and learn how to work with and care for it properly.
It's kind of like deciding that you got a bad child because he arrived in your house at the age of two and was cranky, wetting his pants and pulling the CDs off the rack. If you know a bit more, then you tell yourself "Oh, he's a normal two year old - ok - he needs a snack, a nap and we need to tell him "no" about the CDs and give him a time-out next time".
Similarly normal puppies (dogs are puppies at least until they are 2, incidentally, though they mature quickly if you train them during that time), have undesirable behaviors - they pee in the house, bark, get into things, chew on your shoes and furniture and whatever else until they learn what is acceptable and what is not.
It IS appropriate to have a crate for your dog for breaks with regularly scheduled meal times, play time, training time, walks and time to just relax with the family. They sleep a lot but also need interaction, love, affection and work - like training for the reward of a treat.
A lot of people get a dog or other pet just thinking about how cute it is and assume the dog will grow up and change into the perfect dog if they just feed it and let it out. No - the owner has to proactively train them or they will continue to act like puppies.
OK
OKQuote:
Originally Posted by Alty
I have a border collie right now, just turned 6 months old. I also have a beagle. I've had lab border collie crosses, you name it. All of them were family dogs, none of them were sequestered or put outside because of issues. All of them bit as puppies, but they learned that that behavior is not acceptable. I didn't give up and put them outside so I wouldn't have to train them. That's what it sounds like you're doing. If not, then tell me how.Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmingNana
Here are the facts. Dogs are pack animals, they don't enjoy being alone. Dogs need to explore. You could have 100 acres of land, but you still need to walk your dog and train your dog if your dog is going to be happy and well behaved. A dog that becomes a lawn ornament (sequestered outside because his owners can't handle him) will have even more issues that he did as a puppy that's biting. Puppies bite! All puppies bite! I have yet to have a puppy that doesn't bite. Puppies stop biting when they're trained not to bite. Putting them in the yard doesn't solve this issue.
In your first post you mentioned he was 5 weeks when rescued. How old is he now?
12 weeks last week - which translates to 13 weeks this week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alty
I think.
OKQuote:
Originally Posted by Alty
I walk my dog and obedience train my dog. I'm tired of being accused of abandoning him. We are with him a lot. Probably more than some people whose dogs are inside and the family works 40 plus hours a week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alty
Is your puppy 12 weeks old?Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmingNana
You said that you've had dogs all your life. Do you not know that at 12 weeks a puppy bites? It's a form of play, and it's done to relieve the pain of teething. At 12 weeks your puppy should just be leaving his mother. Mommy would have taught him some puppy manners, but it's up to you to teach him the rest.
I'm sorry that you're tired of being accused. But if you choose to do the crime, be prepared to be accused.
My advice to you is to re-home the dog, find someone that's willing to put in the effort you aren't able to put in. That's not judgement, that's what's best for this puppy.
At 12 weeks of age he'll be easily re-homed. After years of being left in the yard, not trained, not properly socialized, when you finally get tired of the barking (he will bark, dogs that aren't allowed to be with a group, that aren't trained, that aren't walked, bark out of frustration) when you're finally tired of the biting when you go to feed him, he'll be impossible to re-home, and harder to retrain.
If you re-home him now he still has a chance. If you keep him and continue doing what you're doing, you'll only damage him further.
I'm really not trying to be mean. I'm not trying to attack you. You can't handle this dog. This dog deserves someone that can handle him and is willing to put in the time and effort. You've given up, which is why he's alone in the yard. Don't keep him just because you feel you have to. Give him up because he deserves a better life.
Edit: My husband and I both work 40 hours a week. I have a 6 month old puppy, and a 3 year old dog. My puppy doesn't bite (he's been trained not to), he's crate trained, comes when called, sits on command, lays down on command, shakes a paw, and much more. He learned all this months ago. We've had him since he was 8 weeks old. He's an indoor dog, a member of our family, and he gets a lot of attention.
Your argument that your lawn ornament (outdoor 12 week old puppy) gets more attention than someone that works 40 hours a week, doesn't hold true. My dog was better behaved at 8 weeks of age than your puppy is at 12 weeks, and my puppy is a border collie, a working breed, highly active. To top it all off, I live in the suburbs. I don't have 50 acres like you do. So give me another excuse.
My only concern with the OP and this situation, is that instead of solving the problem, she just put it outside because he appears to be better behaved.
The problem was never really addressed, it was avoided. The dog is still going to bite, even if its play bite, because no one told him "no". Instead, the OP claims that due to him being able to run wild outside, that the problem will fix itself.
Rescue or not, a puppy purchased or obtained at the age of 5wks needs a lot more care than a regular puppy bought at 8wks or 12wks.
I agree with Bella.. no one likes to be told they're a bad dog owner, or that they are doing everything wrong. But truth is, you came to us for help because you are having a problem that isn't resolving by what you know.
I think I already told you.. dogs don't really leave the group to be on their own until 6-8 months. Putting him outside at such a young age is going to really damage him.
He needs to either be with people or other dogs. Not alone with you checking in on him every few hours. In home dogs are more involved in our daily lives than people seem to think. Just because you are not playing fetch or making them sit, doesn't mean that your dog isn't part of your life. Dogs like to be couch potatoes and watch TV all day long too.. Its an activity that the pack is doing, and they are more than happy to do it.
You may be a really good animal owner, you may provide for them and handle all their needs.. but behavior training and dealing with bad behaviors are a different ball game. Puppies purchased/adopted/found at 5wks or younger have a lot of behavior issues. It's almost guaranteed that a puppy that young is going to have issues.. And him biting you endlessly and not stopping is one of them.
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