Ask Me Help Desk - How to help my dog with diabetes get over being sick

Quote:

Originally Posted by grammadidi

While I agree, I think that before jumping you might want to actually check out the one website I recommended ( Having Trouble Affording Veterinary Care? : The Humane Society of the United States ) as it very clearly lists ways of working with your veterinarian. In addition, I don't know where this person lives, but I do know that where I live it would be very expensive to treat this dog, no matter how much negotiating I did with my regular vet. As a general rule, all of my pets receive the very best of veterinary care. However, when I was recently widowed, dealing with my adopted daughter's Reactive Attachment Disorder regression, having heart issues, suffering from depression (just to name a few things) I found it extremely difficult to cope with a serious health condition that our rescued kitten was found to have.

I was very fortunate to have people in my life who could offer me hope instead of blame. Should I have given up our kitten who had the worst heart condition 3 vets had ever seen? Would she have had a better life? No. She had already been through enough, and quite frankly so had I. Thanks to the people I spoke of earlier I actually felt like I had options and hope. There are times in people's lives where circumstances just leave you feeling helpless. Rather than have people jump all over you and drag you further down a pit of perceived helplessness and despair, I feel it's better to treat them with respect and empathy and offer alternatives that enable them to take the appropriate action.

You may not agree with me, and that's fine. However, in my nearly 60 years of life and over 40 years of working both with and for animals and people, I have learned that I get better results when I treat BOTH with compassion and understanding so I will continue to do so. I'm all about whatever WORKS to resolve a situation and I don't feel blame, shame and personal attacks works in the majority of situations. In fact, I feel that it is usually counter-productive. Of course this is just my experience....

Hugs, Didi

As you know I was also widowed so you have my sympathy there.

However, no one jumped all over this woman. Did you read the thread? She thinks Diabetes is a sickness and she can make her dog "better" through force feeding and goodness knows what else WITHOUT the services of a Vet.

Yes, I'm very familiar with the vast majority of the sites you posted. I am not aware of a single one who works directly with the owner and NOT with the Vet. Your circumstance as you posted it is not even close to what the OP is expressing. Should you have given up on the kitten with the most serious health problems? Quite frankly, yes - if the kitten was suffering. Did you seek the help of a Vet? Yes. Did the OP? Apparently not.

Do you actually know anyone who has end stage kidney disease, who has suffered the ravages of kidney disease, who has died of kidney disease? It's not a nice, clean death.

The OP has not approached her Vet about this particular dog. When she does that - and I can only speak for myself - I'll be a LOT more understanding. And please don't think you're the only person who has posted here who has had loss and financial difficulties. Did you read that I took a third job when my GSD was sick and needed medication?

Sorry but this OP wasn't simply the object of anyone's upset because "we" didn't have anything better to do. She chose not to listen and to leave her dog suffering while she stuffed food down his throat.

That is irresponsible.

And hugs back to you - and I'm sorry for your loss.

The humane society doesn't have the funds to provide on going medical care. Spay neuter, vaccines and some other ONE time services, but not continual care for things like diabetes, they WILL help her with euthanasia costs though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

The humane society doesn't have the funds to provide on going medical care. Spay neuter, vaccines and some other ONE time services, but not continual care for things like diabetes, they WILL help her with euthanasia costs though.

Bella, I agree and disagree.

In the Humane society in our area they will likely try to find a foster family and they will provide some money towards the cost of treatment, if not all. Fund raising, and many other things, are done for just this sort of thing.

A dog that is otherwise healthy, and able to find a new home, is not euthanized just because they don't have the money. Many times the vets that volunteer at the Humane society will pay for the treatment out of their own pocket, if the dog is a good candidate for a new home. I've seen it many times before. :)

But, that's the Humane society in my area. I can't speak for others. You and I live in the same country and obviously your experience is very different than mine. So I can just imagine what other countries do.

Quote:

Rather than have people jump all over you and drag you further down a pit of perceived helplessness and despair, I feel it's better to treat them with respect and empathy and offer alternatives that enable them to take the appropriate action.

Didi, I have a great deal of respect for you, but I would like to ask. What alternatives could we have offered?

Do you know of an alternative treatment for diabetes? If so, why don't the doctors and vets know about this?

We gave the OP the only options she has. I'd love to know what else we could have suggested, because really, I see no other alternative other than getting the dog the treatment it needs, putting the dog to sleep, or watching the dog die. If there is an alternative, please, share it with us.

I don't see a single post on this thread where someone jumped on this poster. We gave her advice, she refused to accept it. We gave her alternatives, she didn't want to hear them.

I have many animals. If one of my fur babies was diagnosed with diabetes I doubt that I could afford the treatment. I can tell you that my fur babies are like my children. I would rather see them go to another home then watch them die a slow painful death because I can't afford to give them the treatment they need. If I couldn't do that for them, then I'd put them down humanely, and go home crying my eyes out because I couldn't fulfill the promise I made to them when I brought them to my home. But there's no shame in any of that. Vets are expensive. There's not one person on this thread that doesn't understand that. But for the OP to dismiss the seriousness of her dogs situation, that is not okay.

I really resent you post. We did the best we could. If you can do better, then please, do. So far you haven't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alty

Didi, I have a great deal of respect for you, but I would like to ask. What alternatives could we have offered?

Thank you, Alty. I appreciate that you have respect for me. To clarify, my issue wasn't with the alternatives that were (or were not) offered. It was the manner in which they were offered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alty

Do you know of an alternative treatment for diabetes? If so, why don't the doctors and vets know about this?

No, I do not know of an alternative treatment for diabetes and even if I did I probably wouldn't give it here, because it should be a decision between a pet owner and their veterinarian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alty

We gave the OP the only options she has. I'd love to know what else we could have suggested, because really, I see no other alternative other than getting the dog the treatment it needs, putting the dog to sleep, or watching the dog die. If there is an alternative, please, share it with us.

I agree that there are only 3 options here. I personally would have the dog euthanized or ensure she receives treatment. I was trying to provide the original poster with the strength to see that she DOES have options and she CAN ensure her dog gets the treatment it needs. I attempted to empathize with her and provide her with a few resources that would help her to gather the means necessary to meet that end.

I assume (and I could be wrong) that you didn't even look at the one site I referred her to. It had a link to look at a list of groups nationwide that offer veterinary care assistance. It gave advice as to how you might work with your vet to negotiate a payment plan; suggested offering services to your vet to help pay for their services; suggested going to an area where vet care is less expensive; and suggested checking out veterinary schools (and provided links) as many veterinary schools in the U.S. run low cost clinics for those with limited incomes.

The site offered some great ideas on how to raise the funds to afford your vet care (i.e. - yard sales, selling items on eBay, etc.) They outlined resources for short term credit available even if your credit rating is poor and provided links for dog-breed specific veterinary care assistance programs. They also explained that you should speak to your vet to submit an assistance request to the American Animal Hospital Association's "Helping Pets Fund".

See, I tried to find a way that the dog's owner could figure out how to actually get veterinary care. Sometimes, when you are in a bad situation you feel there is no way out. I felt that page, in particular, offered MANY ways out. [/QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alty

I don't see a single post on this thread where someone jumped on this poster. We gave her advice, she refused to accept it. We gave her alternatives, she didn't want to hear them.

Perhaps you are right there, however, even when I read all of the posts again I felt that most people were reacting instead of actually helping this woman find a way to do what she needed to do. I personally would have felt attacked if I were in her shoes and I didn't feel that anyone really gave her any constructive advice. I felt that I did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alty

I really resent you post. We did the best we could. If you can do better, then please, do. So far you haven't.

I'm sorry that you resent my post, Alty. I felt upset reading many posts from people who just kept telling her she needed to go to the vet while the woman was quite clear that she felt she couldn't because she had already spent a lot on the vet recently, she had a newborn baby, she was suffering from health problems herself and she had no income. Is it an ideal situation? NO. However, the goal was to get that dog to the vet any way I could. It was apparent to me that the previous posts were not working so I was attempting to be empathetic and kind while offering her constructive advice that she could find a way to get her dog the treatment it required... whether that be euthanasia or medication.

She didn't need to hear that the dog needed to go to the vet. She KNEW that. She felt that she COULDN'T afford it. The links I provided gave her the knowledge that she COULD get that dog to the vet with not just one option, but many great options. So, while you don't think I did "better" so far, I feel I did, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I meant no disrespect to anyone. My goal was to help the dog. Hopefully the original poster found a means through the websites I provided and the dog is either being euthanized or treated as I type. She felt that she was not able to take the dog to a vet. I made sure that she knows that she CAN. In my books that was very helpful - whether she uses the knowledge or not.

I do hope you can step back and understand where I was coming from and not feel like you have to resent my post but see that my original response to the poster was a good one filled with empathy and resources to ensure her dog received care. Anyhow, even if you do resent my post... I still love you. :)

Hugs, Didi

Didi, I'm sorry but I feel like I have to jump in here.

This dog is dying. Dying. Being force fed - and dying. The OP is stuffing oranges down the throat of a dying dog (with the excuse that they contain less sugar than who knows what). I'm not reading anywhere that "OP" knew the dog needed treatment. I am reading that she thought she could cure the "sickness."

I've had dogs. I've had rough times. If you can't afford your animals, don't have animals - it's not just all glory and congratulations because you "saved" any numbers of dogs with Parvo. It's about the day to day caring for their needs. So the OP now has a newborn, has health issues, has no money - so the dog dies a painful death?

Didi, I've posted thousands of times. Literally thousands of times. I was on this thread for hours - look at the times - literally hours! Ladysam was here; Alty joined me. You had criticism.

When anyone comes on and criticizes the advice I also feel insulted. Maybe you could have answered more kindly or more helpfully than I did - and I can only address me. If you have superior information, I'd like to hear it.

The OP continued to believe that Diabetes was a "sickness" that she could cure at home. I see absolutely no indication that she has consulted with a Veterinarian, asked about prices, asked about help. I see her force feeding a dying dog (and, yes, I know all about diabetes and dying) and excusing her behavior.

There isn't time to hold a lemonade sale - the dog is shutting down!

What are you reading in any of OP's posts that I am missing?

Sorry, but it's easy to come in and quarterback when the game is over.

Judy, I have to spread the rep.

Didi, I read your post to me, and I can only say this. I still respect you, and perhaps you read the thread differently than I did, or anyone else did. Fact is, everyone else that answered read it the way I did. So perhaps you read it wrong?

From what I read, the OP knows her dog is diabetic, but doesn't believe that the symptoms her dog is experiencing are related to diabetes, even though the dog has not received treatment for diabetes. She thinks the dog is just sick. Upset tummy, or something else mundane.

The OP believes that force feeding her dog, and forgoing vet care, will cure her dog.

You can't cure diabetes. We all know that. Correction, the majority of people know that, but the OP is clueless in that regard.

No, she can't afford the vet. I get that, been there, done that, and I can't speak for everyone else that posted, but the majority of those that did have been in the same boat. Vets are expensive. We all know that.

Here's why I was insulted by your post. We told the OP that she needs to find a way to treat her dog, be it getting assistance, a loan, or giving up her dog. She insists that her dog is just sick, that the issues her dog is having have nothing to do with the untreated diabetes. She refuses to accept that a diabetic dog that's not getting insulin and treatment for the diabetes, will die, that the supposed illness she thinks her dog has, is not an illness, but a side effect of the diabetes that's not being treated.

Not once did the OP say "okay, I can't afford to treat my dog for diabetes". She said she can't afford a vet, even though a vet diagnosed the diabetes. She refused to accept that the issues had to do with a diabetic dog. Sorry, repeating myself. :(

Fact is, a diabetic dog needs treatment for diabetes. If the OP can't afford to do that, no, I won't judge her, nor will anyone else on this thread. We've all been there. But every other option we gave was dismissed, because the OP won't accept, or believe, that her dog isn't just sick, it's dying from lack of diabetic treatment.

The OP never took any option, the only options she has, to heart. She continued to post that she just wanted to keep her dog alive, from a supposed illness, without getting the treatment for diabetes, which is killing her dog.

Sorry if this makes no sense. I just really don't think you get the whole picture. You said you agree she has only a few options. Well, that's what we've been battling. None of those options, the only options available, are things she's willing to do.

So the dog dies. Slowly, painfully, because his owner didn't want to hear that the problem isn't a stomach bug, or something else, but diabetes. Chicken and rice won't cure it, nor will oranges. That means death, since she won't even try to get vet advice, won't re-home the dog and won't even contact the Humane society. Death. That's it.

That's why we're upset.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alty

Judy, I have to spread the rep.

Thanks - and likewise.

It always pains me (doesn't hurt me) that it's so easy to come into a conversation and judge the people who came before.

I know I've done it. I know I've regretted it.

So now we've all spent a lot of time, the OP hasn't (and probably won't come back) and no one knows (or understands) any more than they did this time yesterday.

Sigh -

Quote:

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Thanks - and likewise.

It always pains me (doesn't hurt me) that it's so easy to come into a conversation and judge the people who came before.

I know I've done it. I know I've regretted it.

So now we've all spent a lot of time, the OP hasn't (and probably won't come back) and no one knows (or understands) any more than they did this time yesterday.

Sigh -

We tried to make her understand, we did our very best. She wouldn't, or couldn't, or simply didn't. Not our fault. It is what it is.

Sadly we can only save those that listen. The OP wouldn't listen, so her dog will likely die a painful death.

I wish there was something we could do about that. I wish I could save every dog or any other animal I meet. But none of us can. We can only do what we can do. If the human being in charge of that pet refuses to listen, refuses to see the truth, the animal pays the price. It's painful, and hurts, but what else can we do? We can't make someone intelligent. We can't force someone to listen to reason. It's not in our power.

It is what it is, and it's part of the hardship of volunteering on a site like this. Not everyone will get it. In fact, only a few do. All we can do is continue and hope that one out of a hundred is smart enough to follow the advice given.

I resigned myself to this fact a long time ago. It was hard. But, if push comes to shove I'd rather save 1 out of a hundred than 0. That one counts. That one is why I continue to post. This just wasn't that one. :(

I'm the only one so far who hasn't responded to this, please allow me to do so, but before that let me say this.
Grammadidi, I have always admired the posts that you make in the pet forum, you do bring compassion, thoughtfulness and sincerity.
But in this case I can only go by what the OP posted which was,

"i know im going to get jumped on for this but"

I'm taking to mean the she already knows how others may feel about this probably because she has already heard it.

"i have been rescuing dogs and cats sence i was very young and i have a 9 year old rottwiler lab mix that i rescued at about 6 months old she had been beaten starved sevrial of her litter mates had been killed by the oweners or cars"

Somehow justifies what she is about to say.

"has been diinsosied with diabetes about a month ago"

The dog was diagnosed with diabetes, I presume by a vet a month ago.

"i have been force feeding her for a week now and she is not getting any better"

You should never have to force feed a diabetic dog, if you have to resort to force feeding then something is very wrong.

"i can't take her to the vet for i have a nowborn, health problems and no income"

I get that I've been through some pretty tough times myself.

" i have put her on antibotics and vitamen"

I can only take for the exact way it sounds, she is self medicating the dog.

"i fear she is going to die'

She realizes that her dog is in bad shape.

I don't think I jumped on her, you may have read it differentlly.
I was simply trying to urge her to do right by the dog.
If that meant rehoming or euthanasia then so be it.
After her post that he dog had not been on insulin it was pretty apparent, to me anyway, that
1) She and her vet were not on the same page, I can't imagine that after a diagnosis of diabetes that a vet didn't stress the need for proper treatment, if that is the case she needed a different vet.
2) She was equating diabetes in dogs with non insulin dependent diabetes in people where insulin is not the treatment, but rather more diet related. She did post that she had family members that were diabetic but didn't elaborate.

What I saw after the first post and her response to the first couple of posts, given the history of what was going on was simply, this is a case where this dog stand little chance of recovery because her body is likely in shock due to her uncontrolled diabetic state.

I've seen this scenario too many times, pet owners will allow their animal to suffer and languish when it is apparent what needs to be done.
It is heartbreaking to watch, often times the owners at our clinic stay away and force us to watch this play out while either declining treatment or treating to the extent that that pet has no quality of life.
It makes me angry, but I don't think that anger was directed at this particular person.
I simply asked her to take the best interest of her pet to heart.

Don't get me wrong, I know where you were coming from and I actually appreciated your post.
I simply think that this dog was living on borrowed time and OP had already neglected the condition for a month, I can guarantee you that the dog had been diabetic longer than that.

Lady Sam, I'm in tears. I wish I knew you in real life. I'd invite you to my home in a heart beat.

I can only respond online. I was able to give you rep, and wish I could do more.

You said what I failed to say. You said it eloquently. That's something I have yet to learn. I'm blunt to a fault. :( I doubt that I'll change. Too old, and too stubborn. ;)

Well said. Very well said.

Will the OP and Didi get it? I really hope so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alty

Bella, I agree and disagree.

In the Humane society in our area they will likely try to find a foster family and they will provide some money towards the cost of treatment, if not all. Fund raising, and many other things, are done for just this sort of thing.

A dog that is otherwise healthy, and able to find a new home, is not euthanized just because they don't have the money. Many times the vets that volunteer at the Humane society will pay for the treatment out of their own pocket, if the dog is a good candidate for a new home. I've seen it many times before. :)

But, that's the Humane society in my area. I can't speak for others. You and I live in the same country and obviously your experience is very different than mine. So I can just imagine what other countries do.

But this dog isn't other wise healthy AND not in a high re-adopt rate, other wise, I know from personal experience that the HS here in NS will not pay for continuing care for a dog with an illness. They just can't afford it. All I am saying is that this point euthanasia is more humane than what she is doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

But this dog isn't other wise healthy AND not in a high re-adopt rate, other wise, I know from personal experience that the HS here in NS will not pay for continuing care for a dog with an illness. They just can't afford it. All I am saying is that this point euthanasia is more humane than what she is doing.

I do agree that euthanasia is much more humane that what she's doing.

But, I would give the humane society a call. There are many people that foster that are willing and able to take care of the costs of medication. It happens all the time, but again, that's where I live, and it's not the same at every shelter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alty

I do agree that euthanasia is much more humane that what she's doing.

But, I would give the humane society a call. There are many people that foster that are willing and able to take care of the costs of medication. It happens all the time, but again, that's where I live, and it's not the same at every shelter.

And, again, that's how I happened to have a diabetic dog own me (and that's pretty much the way it worked out). I got the call, diabetic dog, could I help just until she was stablized. Lie, lie, lie. And I keep falling for it!

She died with me holding her and looking into her eyes 12 years later!

Her name was Maggie May. She was a great dog.