Emily.. Hunter is never going to be a hunter. He is a wimp and you don't push him. Hunting dogs are working dogs and they will work no matter what. If he is being a wimp becaue of the cold weather, then he isn't going to work for you when the weather changes.

All you say is "I cant"... You can't train him any further because you need a field or water and a gun. I know of many people who train their dogs to retrieve and pattern.

If he is so destructive and the exercise isn't taking the edge off, then you need to push him and MAKE HIM TIRED.

But I forgot, the dogs call the shots in your household.

I agree with alty, you claim your dog is so awesome with retrieving and dropping items, yet he runs away from you in the house, won't drop when told and constantly grabs inappropriate items. That doesn't sound like a very well trained dog to me.

Quote:

---

I agree with alty, you claim your dog is so awesome with retrieving and dropping items, yet he runs away from you in the house, won't drop when told and constantly grabs inappropriate items. That doesn't sound like a very well trained dog to me.

---

That was Bella that said that. :)

Emily, why don't you tell us what you want to hear? You obviously don't want advice. There is no easy fix to this, you have to put in the work, and you have every excuse in the book about why you can't do the work, so what is it you want to hear?

You asked for advice from the experts. All of the dog experts on this site have come to give you advice, but you shoot down everything we've said.

So tell me, what is it you want to hear?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altenweg

That was Bella that said that. :)

---

Hahaha Lucky always does that to me... lol :p

How old is Hunter, now?

Emily, have you researched Foxhounds to know how they hunt? At times I get the impression that you are expecting Hunter to be a Labrador Retriever instead of a Foxhound. Think about what the dogs were bred for. They run ahead of the horses. They jump or go through hedges and fences. They do not lie peacefully by their master's side waiting for a duck to fall out of the sky.

American Foxhound Information and Pictures

Quote:

---

This dog is extremely energetic and tireless. It is very important that it gets daily vigorous exercise to prevent extreme indoor restlessness. This breed should not be taken on as a family pet unless they can guarantee plenty of vigorous exercise. They need to be taken on a daily, brisk, long walk, jog or run alongside you when you bicycle.

---

Note the word 'vigorous'.

The 'foundation' might be there, but it is built on sand like it is with any other dog or breed. If you stop working on it, it will fall apart. Basic training is a daily event not just until the dog 'gets it' or until the next step can begin.

Take him outside and put the coat on him when he starts complaining. In the house and warm, he doesn't see it as a good thing, but he probably will when he is cold and it starts helping him warm up.

Hunter is 6 months,
What I was wanting to hear was something to help him tire, now if you have a suggestion how I can get him used to "the forest", without a forest? Because that what he needs, on the fround training, he can't get that in the house or the backyard, he knows what he needs to, now I just have to see if it will work when all the scents are around him and he actually needs to work.

Yes I know there for hunting rabbits, foxes, racoons, etc, but my dads friend has a... bloodhound? Im not to sure on the breed, but he is some sort of hound, and he is the best they have seen to retrieve waterfowl, why? Because he can smell them out better than a lab, they can find blind retrieves no problem. Hunter enjoys water, and he enjoys retrieving, why not throw those two together and turn him into a retriever?

What I wanted to hear?
How to get him to actually move when he has clothes on,
What are some otherr suggestions that I can "make shift" a huting experiece, like alty hiding so her beagle can find her, or playing games so her collie can "herd", that kind of thing. Since he can't get out and do the real thing, what can I use to pretend?

I did mention how to get him used to wearing a jacket. It takes time, and a lot of patience.

You have to start slowly. You can't just put the jacket or boots on and hope he'll get used to it.

You have to associate the clothing with something good. Treats work very well.

Start by just letting him sniff the clothes. If he does, give him a treat. Do that for a few days, just letting him get used to them being there. Get him to sit and stay, smell and get accustomed to the scent and feel of the clothes.

Once he does that without a struggle, try putting on a boot. Only for a few seconds, and a treat and tons of praise. Every day leave the boot on a little longer, distract him from the boot while it's on. Praise, treats, lots of positive reinforcement. Then work on two boots, then three, then four.

Same with the jacket. At first he only wears it for a few seconds, or a minute, lots of praise and treats while it's on, leave it on for longer each session, distraction, and lots of positive reinforcement.

It won't happen overnight. It can take weeks, even months for him to willingly wear the clothes.

Emily, I do have a question. You want Hunter to be a hunter, but have stated that he cannot be a hunter in the winter time. Working dogs work all year. If you're only going to work him during the summer months, he'll never be a well trained reliable hunter. Working dogs work rain, shine, sleet, snow, warm, cold. That's why we've all stressed the fact that training should begin now.

If he cannot be worked during every season, then I would forget making him into a hunting dog, and just enjoy him as a pet.

Quote:

---

What are some otherr suggestions that I can "make shift" a huting experiece, like alty hiding so her beagle can find her, or playing games so her collie can "herd", that kind of thing. Since he can't get out and do the real thing, what can I use to pretend?

---

Now for this part of your post.

If you can't or won't train him outside, then you'll have to work inside. It will be a lot less fun or educational for Hunter, but if that's the only option, then so be it.

He's a hound dog. Scents are his life. Smelling things, finding things, that's a part of who and what he is. So let him do what he's born to do.

Does he have a favorite toy? How about a kong? Put a treat in it, let him sniff it. Get someone to hold him while you go hide it (where he can reach it) in another part of the house. Then let him lose. At first you may have to encourage him to find it, you may even have to lead him to it, but when he gets it, tons of praise, a treat, lots of "good boys". Use a command word while you're playing this game.

That's how we started with Chewy. Chewy isn't being trained to hunt, or even to find prey, even though it's in his blood as well. We really don't want him doing what he's bred to do, which is to flesh out rabbits, and even hunt them. With 4 rabbits in the house, training him to hunt them would be a bad idea. ;)

But, if Chewy's instincts aren't allowed to be a part of his life, he does get destructive. So, his favorite toy (we call her Slutty puppy, it's a long story) is what he's been trained to find. He'll also track down items of ours, or a kong with a treat in it (that's too easy for him, but a good way to start training).

Now I just have to tell him to find it, and he goes searching. It's fun for the whole family, and a great way to keep him from destroying things out of frustration.

It's all about finding a game that will allow Hunter to do what he's meant to do. Hunter is still very young, it will take a lot of time to wear him out, but that's part of owning a working breed. They need to work, and these dogs, when used to work beside us, will work 20 hours a day if you let them. They love to work, they love it more then anything else, which is why they make such great working companions.

This need to work has been bred in them for so long, you cannot deny them. If you do you will have a very unhappy dog, and a destroyed household. You'll also end up with a dog that can become very aggressive.

When hunter is trained he will be worked in all seasons. It's just that he just got his recall down pat, and I don't want to take him out dead of winter 4 feet of snow and let him go, what if he doesn't come back? It will be near impossible to find him in the woods, and he will freeze to death very shortly. At least in the summer he has a standing chance, and there is time to work on his recall.

We have a 20 foot leash that we use (we have a little "field" behind my house, its just an empty area waiting to be built on come spring) that's where we work on his recall, because I can stand on the street and he can run through the snow, and when he's cold we can hurry home. But the leash would easily get tangled in trees, and if he is running... well he will be choked. So Im training him in the summer as well because that gives him time to work on recall.

Also, we can go outside, but only for about 20 minutes at a time, so he goes for 3 20 minutes walks/jogs, and then outside a couple times between those, so I guess I'll track down there kong and fill it up with some peanut butter!

I would never ever take a scent hound off leash, especially if he's being trained to track and hunt.

The retractable leashes were invented for scent hounds that work. Why? Well, a scent hound catches a scent and that's it. You could scream at the top of your lungs, and even a very well trained hound won't obey. It's like they don't even hear you, they're so intent on finding their prey, following the scent.

In all my life I have ever seen one beagle that was trustworthy off leash. He was an anomaly, not the norm, and frankly, I still think they glued him to that chair. ;)

Well then, I guess I'm going to have to make a new purchase... a retractable leash and a harness...

I was doing some research, and found out you can hunt coyote's with dogs in Canada. I always thought this was illegal for some reason (Maybe because it is illegal to use them for other large game). Anyway, I was thinking, I can easily get my hands on some coyote carcasses (My dads friend hunts them), and start training hunter with those now. I don't know if I would actually let him hunt them, as he is only about 50 pounds and coyotes can be as large as him or larger it might be a bit dangerous. But that might be able to hold him off till I can get some rabbit fur or birds...

Just wondering, What would you think about hunter hunting coyotes, he wouldn't be alone, and he won't be off leash... I can get within 5 feet of a coyote myself just walking without them running away, once I was even able to get within "petting" distance (It was a complete accident, I didn't see him/her standing there and before I knew it I was face-to-face)... So if by chance hunter could track it down I, or someone I am hunting with, could shoot it. I wouldn't let hunter "go at it" and be able to actually attack the coyote, he'd just find it...

Oh, also, most places I am reading (wild life website from Canada) state most people use scent hounds to track the prey, and sight hounds to kill it.

Would it actually have to be done this way? Or could I just use Hunter? Most people around here don't use dogs (Ive never heard of it, but it defiantly interests me!), but if I needed to use a "pack" and have scent and sight hounds, maybe I could find a group of people who do use hounds and see if they would allow us to join (and maybe help me train hunter).

I also think it is cruel for the dog to kill coyote, that would be a slow death, getting shot it is a lot faster.

And before you think I'm cruel for wanting to kill the coyotes, they are over populated where I am, the municipality has even placed a bounty on there head, and many farmers have opened there land up to coyote hunting. Many farmers have lost dogs, chickens, meat rabbits, and one even lost his foal (which was in a barn) to a pack of coyotes, there not afraid of people, which is never a good sign.

Scent hounds were used to track the scent of a particular animal. Breeds like the Basset Hound have large ears to direct the scent to their nose and block out outside smells, once they caught onto a scent they would bay (howl) and the hunter would follow them. They would follow the dog until they found their prey and then the hunter would shoot it.

Sight hounds as the name suggests have very keen eyesight and will immediately chase small moving objects. They were used for smaller game like rabbits that they could chase and bite.

Breeds like the Great Dane are a mixture of the 2, (more sight than scent), They grab and hold the prey down (without killing it) Until the hunter arrives to finish it off.
This is probably the hardest and most dangerous types and is why it is done with such large, powerful dogs.

Yes, but between research and watching videos, I have realized that hunter WILL NOT be killing it, and I will not praticipate with someone who lets there dogs kill it, sorry this is just to cruel. A bullet is a lot better than being torn apart. Im going to get some fur and see if hunter has an interest :)

Coyote hunting? Really? Why on earth would you want to train your dog to become aggressive towards other dogs. Dogs can't tell the difference between domesticated dogs and wild dogs (coyotes).. They're all the same. I don't think training your dog to become a coyote hunter is a smart move on your end. He already has questionable behavior, so train him to be aggressive towards other dog-like animals

I'm not apposed to controlled hunting for a overpopulated species, but most coyote hunting dogs are not pampered house pets. They are tough dogs.

I don't get what you want from this dog. He is a scent hound, not a retrieving bird dog. He was created to hunt down foxes (hense the name) in LARGE packs. They do OK on their own, but are best in a pack. He was not created to hunt birds and definitely not bred to hunt coyotes. You're training him to go against his instincts. He was not bred to water retrieve, not bred to find birds hiding in the bushes and not bred to chase down and take out a coyote. I think you need to research your breed a little bit better and maybe talk to the breeders of these dogs and ask what you can and can't do with him. You're going to ruin him otherwise.

You just remind me of the failed adopters who want one of the rescue dogs. They want the dog based on color and appearance, they don't know anything about what the dogs were bred for (upland bird hunting) and don't realize how much exercise these dogs need in order to be liveable. They don't want to take the dog out because its cold, raining or whatever the weather is like, they don't train the dog correctly and expect it to be good in the house with no outlet. Hunters breed (or mix of) is not going to sit quietly by your side while your duck hunting. He is not going to dash into the water and retrieve it for you at your command.. ITS NOT HIS BREED CHARACTERISTICS! He is going to retrieve for you now because he is a PUPPY and is chasing something that seems like fun. He has no other distractions and has nothing better to do. Hounds are not know for retrieving. They smell things, and smell things very well. Why not train him for search and rescue? That is something he would be good at.

Your dogs characteristics:

Quote:

---

This dog is extremely energetic and tireless. It is very important that it gets daily vigorous exercise to prevent extreme indoor restlessness. This breed should not be taken on as a family pet unless they can guarantee plenty of vigorous exercise. They need to be taken on a daily, brisk, long walk, jog or run alongside you when you bicycle.

---

He does NOT hunt birds the way you are thinking. He will track them, sniff them.. and flush them and keep going.

The coyote hunting thing.. Big mistake. Not only are you endangering your dogs life and health, but also training him to be nasty to other dogs. Coyotes are born to survive in the wild. You will be exposing your pet to dangerous virus such as Rabies (Vaccines are not a garantee) and parasitic infections among other things. Please rethink what you are thinking. Research your breed and do what comes natural to him...

HOw would he hunt coyotes if he was on a leash? I thinks this is a horrible idea and a fast and sure way to get your dog killed or seriously hurt. Your dog weighs 50lbs, but these are WILD dogs who will tear him into couch stuffing faster then you can blink.

Im looking into a GPS color, there about $500-$600, but my dad said he would help. Fox hounds do hunt cyotes, I have done a lot of research. They can work alone, and supposivly they work fine alone.

First you scream at me because I won't do anything, and now your screaming because I found something that I already do that hunter can now do.

Also, dogs will not become aggressive to other dogs if they start hunting, I have done research!

Em, we're not screaming, but your dog (from what I have read) really shouldn't be hunting wild dogs. I'm sorry girl. I know it's confusing. We're only trying to help. You just have to understand coyote hunting is something left to dogs who have been bred and born to do so.

Leave the coyotes alone, they have enough trouble with all those "glorified" hunters out there. I would be worried for YOUR safety too. I just don't think it's a good idea hon.

Just for you information I guess I'm one of those "glorified" hunters. I have been hunting cyotes since I could legally hold a gun. Want to know something? Hunting cyotes paid for my first car, $50 per cyote...

Were not glorified hunters, the municipality came to my dad and asked him to go kill them!

Also, the cyotes around here are friendlier than most dogs, my brother has walked up to many (he's 12 and kind of dumb) and actually pet them, there not scared! Now what happens when these cyotes get hungry? They will go after humans to eat since they have no fear towards us!


--I could take hunter rabbit hunting, or even coons, but no one is going to give me permission for that, there not a pest, they do what they do and don't disturb anyone, the cyotes do, my neighbour lost her 12 year old pug to a cyote, it came into town and took her dog, they watched it happen, there was nothing they could do. My cousins dog was killed on there door step by cyotes, 6 kids watched there dog being mauled to death, they yelled and screamed but again the cyote wasn't scared of them, he just kept EATING, he didn't just attack it, he literally ate there dog right in front of them. This won't happen to hunter, there is more than 20 people in our hunting group, Hunter would be well protected.

But anyway, since you all told me he needs to do something, I found something, now your telling me not to do it. Now what? We stay what were doing? You're the ones who told me I had an unhappy dog, Im trying to do what he needs to do and I get told he'll still be unhappy? Hunter already "hunts" duke, he bays and everything, I know he'll be good at it. He never hurts Duke, just runs him down and then stops when he catches him, then duke turns around and grabs hunters ear.

I refuse to hunt foxes, why? Because in my 12 years of going hunting with my dad I've seen 2 foxes. I have seen thousands of cyotes.

I can hunt rabbits, but there not doing anything wrong, and there not overpopulated.

I could hunt coons, but again there not doing and harm to farmers, pets, livestock, etc

I could take him bear hunting, but honestly, think he has a chance then? Not at all.

I could take him to go kill cougars, but again he wouldn't survive,

Mountain lions are another option, but again he would be dead before he could tree it,

Cyotes and Hunter are the same size, and Hunter has the advantage of being the hunter not the prey, he has 20 people behind him with guns.

What would happen is, Hunter gets sent into a small brush, flushes the cyote, the brush would be surrounded. All the hunters we hunt with have there own bird dogs, they know what it is like to loose a hunting partner, many of them have lost dogs when they have fallen through ice or got tangled up and drowned, many have even been shot when another stupid hunter goes trigger happy, they wouldn't let anything happen to hunter, and either would I.

Im taking hunter into the vet, get him checked over and make sure he is healthy enough, I haven't made up my mind yet, but I might as well get him checked out and make sure everything is 100%.