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I love Victoria Still well, her methods make complete sense to me.
However even with her, she's still just an actor and there is a lot of training and footage that would get left out of the show.
I guess I'm just not a big fan of those kind of shows altogether, they show people that training a dog can happen overnight, when it rarely if ever does.
Emop, I don't care if this is your dad, he needs to be reported to the authorities.
Animal abuse is not something to be taken lightly.
Those poor dogs.
I agree with shaz. Physical violence against animals is completely unacceptable. If he did that to people, he would go to jail.
I'll third this. Do we need to vote? I think this measure will pass by acclamation.Quote:
Originally Posted by cal823
Quote:
Originally Posted by shazamataz
I totally agree Shaz.
I just wish the global community would come to its senses and pass a global treaty demanding that those who are deliberately cruel to animals should receive HOT INSTANTANEOUS DEATH!
Okay, maybe I am being a bit silly/unrealistic there.
But we do need better policing of animal care. Here in australia you don't even need any qualifications to be a dog trainer. So any idiot can teach people how to care for their animals, even if they are completely wrong.
Hot instantaneous death?
How about long, cruel, drawn out, painful, torturous death?
I think Australia needs higher penalties for animal cruelty offenders. Most people get off with just a fine, and occasionally are limited to only owning 1 or 2 dogs.
Complete barring from owning any animals, and jail terms are rare.
I think that the TV trainers only show the easy stuff. You rarely ever see either one of the TV trainers take on a human aggressive dog or a dog with severe separation anxiety. Its typically the owners that have no clue what their doing.
However, I still think pos. reienforcement training is silly. None of the TV trainers are going to show on their program the trainers laying down the laws. Anyone who owns a dog knows that sometimes, to get your point across, you cannot plead or necessarily be nice to your dog.
Am I saying you should beat your dog into submission? Or choke the heck out of it until its tongue turns blue? Absolutely not. But all methods of training, if done right, are humane.
I think the best type of training, that is most effective in my opinion.. Is understand your dog. No, don't sit down and have a yoga session with them... But understand where their coming from.. Why they act the way they act. If you don't understand your dog and "commune" with them, then any type of training is a waste of time.
I don't agree with clicker training. I think its one more thing an owner has to stumble over. Yes, it may work for some people... But I've noticed that the only people who succeed in clicker training are either the dedicated trainers.. Or the owners who really want to make changes.
When it comes down to it.. People want quick fixes when it comes to training their dogs.
Same things happen here.Quote:
Originally Posted by shazamataz
People get caught 'dog-fighting' and end up with less time than Michael Vick got.
Some people who are supposed to be trained to train owners (and their dogs) are as bad as those with no training:
Within the last couple of years, a K-9 patrol trooper was caught on tape (a fellow trainer/trooper recorded it with his cell phone) 'hanging' his dog (one he was training. Yes, he trained the dogs.) from a wooden loading dock railing by his leash (hind paws barely touching the ground) and kicked his legs out from under him about three times. In the video, the dog could be seen swinging under the loading dock while trying to get his feet back under him. Why? Because the dog didn't give a toy back quickly enough. The trooper defended his actions by saying it was an appropriate way to train a dog. The trooper was fired, but ended up getting his job back after he appealed the firing (I am not certain if he back training dogs.) The judge who heard his appeal (if I remember correctly) said there wasn't enough proof that he was doing anything wrong. Last I heard the dog's name was changed and he was sent to another place to continue training.
The public outcry over that incident did show that people (even those divided on how to train) realize there are boundaries between 'training' and 'abuse'.
I use clicker with Lady. It's kind of stupid I agree, but it works.
I don't use the clicker at home, but I do fully support +R training.
But I am not afraid to show my dog who is boss, and neither are the +R trainers that I use.
I think I remember seeing that Cat.
Disgusting.
Pos reinforcement is not pleading or being silly or anything like that. It is simply telling your dog it is a good dog when it does the right thing, and not using violence or scaring the crap out of the dog.
I agree, Positive Reinforcement is a good method of training. I haven't seen too many trainers be negative with their dogs.
I think a good trainer knows all methods of training.. From clicker training to remote shock collar training. Not every dog is going to react or even learn the same way. Every trainer, and even sometimes the owners, need to be prepared to put their foot down. And like I said.. Choke chains, shock collars and even the pinch collar are good and useful training aids and are NOT bad if used correctly. Unfortunately, too many people don't know how to use those training aids propery and it does turn into abuse.
Dogs don't understand a lot of these popular training methods. They understand that a action that the dog does is either good or bad.
Dogs don't understand being hit. They understand what a bite is though. Dogs don't understand why their nose gets rubbed into its own urin, but the dog understands your reaction, which is negative, when its peeing and got caught.
I don't like training dogs one way. There are too many different personalities out there to be stuck in one method. My training techniques are probably more +R then anything else... I just don't like to consider myself a +R trainer because I am prepared to do more.
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