I have a 2 yr old Great Dane who would be 37 days pregnant today. Two weeks after she was bred she got a vaginal infection and was put on antibiotics. At her vet visit they did an ultrasound and the vet admitted that she's not "great" at looking for pups but thinks she saw 2-6 pups. At her recheck at 30 days they preformed another ultrasound however said they couldn't see any pups at that time but Raven was "extremely tense" when anyone touched her tummy. Over the last few days we have noticed her nipples getting much larger, rounder belly, sleepier, eats more, wants to cuddle ALL the time!! Could she be pregnant but just hid the puppies tensing up?

Yes, of course. They could have been tucked behind her bladder. We can't actually tell you if she is, but the usual signs you mention are there. Wanting to cuddle all the time, with a woman, is a good sign.

I would save the money you are spending and ultrasounds and wait until she is 45 days along and have her x-rayed, it's the only way you will know how many puppies to expect. By that time the skeletons are mineralized and you can see each puppy. Ultrasound is not the greatest tool to use when looking for puppies.
I think with the changes you are noting that she just may be, but certainly can't say for sure.
Was this a one time breeding or the standard 3 time breeding method, your chances are better with the every other day breeding 3 times.

She was at the breeders house for 6 days an during that time she allowed them to tie 4 times. She went there on her 10th day of bleeding.

I wish we could tell you one way or the other. Lady Sam knows her stuff, so I'd take her advice.

Of course, if she is, it goes without saying that we're going to want pictures. :)

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Originally Posted by Alty

I wish we could tell you one way or the other. Lady Sam knows her stuff, so I'd take her advice.

Of course, if she is, it goes without saying that we're going to want pictures. :)

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I'm not sure how to add pictures on here yet :( I'll try to figure it out though. I wanted to put up picture of what she's looking like now to show everyone what I'm talking about.

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Originally Posted by Raven Rayne

I'm not sure how to add pictures on here yet :( I'll try to figure it out though. I wanted to put up picture of what she's looking like now to show everyone what I'm talking about.

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If you're posting from a laptop or computer, not an iPhone or other mobile device, here are the instructions on how to post a picture. :)

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dogs/h...re-678901.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alty

If you're posting from a laptop or computer, not an iphone or other mobile device, here are the instructions on how to post a picture. :)

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dogs/h...re-678901.html

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Okay I'll email them to myself to put them on my computer then. All I have them on is my iPhone and my iPad.

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Originally Posted by Raven Rayne

Okay I'll email them to myself to put them on my computer then. All I have them on is my iPhone and my iPad.

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I think there's a way to add pictures from your iPhone or iPad, but if there is, I don't know how. :(

I really should ask so that a link can be made to show people how to add pictures from a mobile device. In fact, you've inspired me to do just that. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alty

I think there's a way to add pictures from your iphone or ipad, but if there is, I don't know how. :(

I really should ask so that a link can be made to show people how to add pictures from a mobile device. In fact, you've inspired me to do just that. :)

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Let me know and I'll add a few that I took earlier. And one that I took last week. She's def gotten bigger in just a weeks time. We are just hoping that her having the vaginal infection hasn't affected the puppies or caused her to have a spontaneous abortion. This is our first time breeding and so far it's been a nightmare. My husbands mother breeds Maltese and has never had an issue with any of her es.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raven Rayne

Let me know and I'll add a few that I took earlier. And one that I took last week. She's def gotten bigger in just a weeks time. We are just hoping that her having the vaginal infection hasn't affected the puppies or caused her to have a spontaneous abortion. This is our first time breeding and so far it's been a nightmare. My husbands mother breeds Maltese and has never had an issue with any of her es.

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I wish I could help with breeding, I'm a rescuer, not big on breeding. But, I'm not against legitimate breeders, and from what you posted, you're doing everything right.

My advice would be to get everything ready, plan for her to have a litter. Also follow Lady Sams advice on the x-ray.

Get the whelping box ready, the heat lamp too.

We do have a member whose mom bred Great Danes for many years. I'll PM her and ask her to weigh in. She's not as active on the site as she used to be, she doesn't have as much time, but I'm hoping she'll come and give you some valuable advice.

One thing I do know, Great Danes are a unique breed of dog, with very specific needs.

Please keep checking to see if there are new posts. I'll try to get the breeding experts to chime in. Breeding is not my expertise at all. :(

I messaged her. Sadly she's in Aussie land, so she's on a very different time than we are. Give it a bit, and hopefully she'll post.

Please don't give up. Help is on the way. Or at least a better opinion than I can offer.

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Originally Posted by Alty

I messaged her. Sadly she's in Aussie land, so she's on a very different time than we are. Give it a bit, and hopefully she'll post.


Please don't give up. Help is on the way. Or at least a better opinion than I can offer.

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We have built her a whelping box, and have the extra "warming box" for during delivery to put the pups in while others are born. I have a ton of newspapers and towels, have the thermometer, scissors, iodine, gloves, clamps, note book, pen, and different colored ribbons all gathered up so far. So I think I'm at the halfway mark for supplies. Lol my mother in law just sits and lets her dogs do everything without her involvement but of course her breed has only 2-3 pups a litter.

image | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
You can go to this link to see belly pics of my Great Dane.

image | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
This is today's picture.

From the pictures she definitely looks pregnant, but a false pregnancy can produce those same results. :(

I'd really go with what Lady Sam suggested and get an x-ray at 45 days.

It sounds like you have everything ready and set for when these puppies come. :)

I did PM my friend, but she hasn't responded yet. Hopefully she'll be along soon. She really knows breeding, and Great Danes.

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Originally Posted by Alty

From the pictures she definitely looks pregnant, but a false pregnancy can produce those same results. :(

I'd really go with what Lady Sam suggested and get an xray at 45 days.

It sounds like you have everything ready and set for when these puppies come. :)

I did PM my friend, but she hasn't responded yet. Hopefully she'll be along soon. She really knows breeding, and Great Danes.

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I'm going to guess that she had a false pregnancy with her last heat before we bred her. About 4 weeks after her heat she did produce milk but never gained weight or got fat. We wouldn't have even noticed it but she dripped something warm on my hand while I was rubbing her and that's when I was like Wha?! Ewww!! But that only lasted a couple of days. This time it's a complete 180. She has all the right symptoms but confusing US results. A new thing that we also have noticed over the last couple of days she becoming very protective of myself, my husband and our two children. She's also stealing food from the other dogs and begging for more food. I'm totally lost :( Feed her more for the sake of possible pups or don't feed her more to prevent her from getting fat? Oh my.

I've been rolling this around a little and I have to ask the question.
Were both dogs tested for Brucellosis and CHV before the breeding.
While there are other things that can cause reabsorption of the fetus, these are high on the list, one other being as simple as the mating pair doesn't "match up" genetically, there are many other factors.
So I'm wondering (I hope not) if reabsorption may be a factor here.
One or all puppies can be reabsorbed, in this case you would not see aborted puppies.
Given that your vet said that she wasn't great at ultrasound, could she have been seeing the reabsorbed pups. Did she actually detect heartbeats?
It may be worth speaking with your vet about, because she has access to the patient she would be the best judge.
Also was she ultrasounded standing or lying on her back? It can make a difference in what you can actually see on the moniter.
I surely don't know that this is what is going on, just thought I'd throw it out there.
I think I know who Alty is referring too, I hope she chimes in she should have much valuable insight.

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Originally Posted by LadySam

I've been rolling this around a little and I have to ask the question.
Were both dogs tested for Brucellosis and CHV before the breeding.
While there are other things that can cause reabsorption of the fetus, these are high on the list, one other being as simple as the mating pair doesn't "match up" genetically, there are many other factors.
So I'm wondering (I hope not) if reabsorption may be a factor here.
One or all puppies can be reabsorbed, in this case you would not see aborted puppies.
Given that your vet said that she wasn't great at ultrasound, could she have been seeing the reabsorbed pups. Did she actually detect heartbeats?
It may be worth speaking with your vet about, because she has access to the patient she would be the best judge.
Also was she ultrasounded standing or lying on her back? It can make a difference in what you can actually see on the moniter.
I surely don't know that this is what is going on, just thought I'd throw it out there.
I think I know who Alty is referring too, I hope she chimes in she should have much valuable insight.

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Yes.. I had Raven health checked just before she came into heat and they did blood work, X-rays, ultrasound, and swabs. Quite a bit more expensive than I was expecting but worth it. She's our baby girl and we didn't originally buy her to breed her, in fact we signed a contract that we wouldn't. However the breeder we bought her from bought a new male (completely unrelated) and contacted us about breeding our Dane. I'm not sure how the ultrasounds were done because the vet left my husband and I in the exam room when they took her back. I do know that she said Raven was extremely tense whenever they got near her tummy.
(History on Raven... When she was just 5 months old we paid a Trainer $2000 to keep Raven for two weeks and obedience train her. When I went to pick her up and was watching him her tail never left her stomach and her ears stayed folded back and all she wanted was her momma. Once home we quickly realized that she had to of had a horrible experience there. She was horrified of everyone and would hide when people came to visit, started going potty in the house, getting into the trash, stealing food from the counters, even right off the stove. I've worked very hard to bring her out of this since and we are 90% of the way there.)
With that being said. I hope you can picture what I mean by extremely tense. She is fine when your petting her back or head but go for the tummy and she'll flex like a body builder. Lol She doesn't do that for my husband or I but I have no idea what I'm feeling for. I have noticed that her belly is huge but solid. 6 more days and she will be 45 days so if she's still growing in size and acting all cuddly I'm going to have an X-ray done. I'll add a picture of the male onto my flickr so you can see him as well.

Stud at 9 months old | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Stud at 9 months old

Raven 1 1/2 yrs | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Raven a few months ago

Sorry I'm late to the party. I really can't add much to this thread, some fantastic advice here.

False pregnancy's unfortunately can show the same signs as a real pregnancy, right up to a b*tch going into labor in rare cases.
As LadySam suggested an x-ray is the best way to go to be 100% sure.
It sounds like you are doing everything possible to ensure a healthy litter for both mum and pups which is excellent, kudos!

As Alty said I'm not very active on here lately but I'll definitely be checking in on this thread, I have a real soft spot for Danes having grown up with them.

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Originally Posted by Raven Rayne

Yes.. I had Raven health checked just before she came into heat and they did blood work, X-rays, ultrasound, and swabs.

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Wow, you really did your homework, way to go mom.
Keep us posted we love updates and pictures.

Love the coloring on the male, what a unique coat. He's a very handsome fellow.

Raven is gorgeous. What a pretty girl.

If they do have a litter I can't wait to see the coloring on the pups. :)

We can't either! If she's bit pregnant this time we are going to wait a year and try again. (Maybe.. I'm not very good at waiting for proof of pregnancy)

Also I just called my vet and it'll be $140 for X-rays... That includes the office visit. Going through all of this with Raven made me realize that I should have been a vet instead of a stay at home mom. ;)

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Originally Posted by Raven Rayne

Also I just called my vet and it'll be 0 for X-rays... That includes the office visit. Going through all of this with Raven made me realize that I should have been a vet instead of a stay at home mom. ;)

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LOL! They do make good money.

Now that you've gone through all of this you realize why breeders charge so much for their puppies. All the testing and vet visits required can add up pretty darn fast. If she needs a c-section that can cost thousands. All the equipment, everything else, it's pricey. Breeders really do it for the love of the breed, since even at $2000 a pup, they rarely make back what they spent.

I just took Raven into the vet to get a new weight on her and she has gained 7.2 lbs in 2 1/2 weeks! I asked if the scale was broke and they promised me that it wasn't.

Raven has now decided on her own that we are NOT feeding her enough. Last night we were having tacos for dinner.. I made tacos for everyone and was serving them, I heard my kids scream, I took off running and Raven ate a pound and a half of hamburger right out of the skillet that was still on the stove. She was so proud of herself for finding her own food. She stood there tail wagging licking her face and when I asked her if she had been bad she looked at the stove, back to me and sat down and wanted me to shake her paw. She's so crazy, that's why we love her so much. She's our clown that can always make us laugh and make our day better.

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Originally Posted by Raven Rayne

Raven has now decided on her own that we are NOT feeding her enough. Last night we were having tacos for dinner.. I made tacos for everyone and was serving them, I heard my kids scream, I took off running and Raven ate a pound and a half of hamburger right out of the skillet that was still on the stove. She was so proud of herself for finding her own food. She stood there tail wagging licking her face and when I asked her if she had been bad she looked at the stove, back to me and sat down and wanted me to shake her paw. She's so crazy, that's why we love her so much. She's our clown that can always make us laugh and make our day better.

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LOL! I can just see it "Mom, I hunted for my own food. Aren't you proud?"

It's was one of those moments that you wish you would have been recording it. She was so cute that I couldn't even be mad at her. I told her she needed to go lay on her blanket, she happily did. And I just cooked more food. She has a stack of blanket on the floor in my bedroom (my husbands idea "she needs something soft and comfy too") but the last 4 nights she has been standing by the bed, nudging my husband till he moves over pushing me against the wall just so that when he's over far enough she can climb in bed with us. He wakes up and she tries to sneak out of bed before he can say anything. Lol before she was bred we had to keep her in a kennel when we were gone because she would chew on shoes and kids toys. Since she's been back we haven't put her in the cage but she still will go lay in it on her own willingly. Usually we find her camped out in our bed though.

Yikes, a great dane in bed with you. I hope you have a king sized bed. ;)

Both our dogs sleep with us. What I find funny is that the border collie will lie at the foot of the bed. You barely even know he's there. The beagle will literally nudge me over until the only thing keeping me on the bed is putting my foot on the floor. Heaven forbid I should try to move him, he gets very mad. It's my bed!

If I get up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom I'll come back to both dogs sleeping on my side, using my pillow. Seriously? I was only gone for a minute!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raven Rayne

Also I just called my vet and it'll be 0 for X-rays... That includes the office visit. Going through all of this with Raven made me realize that I should have been a vet instead of a stay at home mom. ;)

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Trust me, vet's are far from rich.

Sorry, sore spot.

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Originally Posted by Sariss

Trust me, vet's are far from rich.

Sorry, sore spot.

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I get that Sariss, but they're far from poor too. At least where I live. I used to babysit for our vet. Her husband didn't work at all, he was a stay at home dad before that became acceptable. They lived in a 4000 sq ft house, 5 bedrooms, 5 baths. It was huge. What I always found weird was that she had no pets. I asked her about it once. Her reply "I don't like having animals in my house". You're a vet!

She showed standard poodles. She had 4 of them. They were all kenneled and cared for by other people. She would show them, post pictures of her winning ribbon after ribbon in her office, but none of those dogs even lived with her. They didn't even have a fish!

Our poodle had constant ear infections. After years of constantly going to the vet, only to pay $100 just to walk in the door, and then pay more for the medication that never worked, we found a new vet. He charged us $20 for the medication, a different medication, and Silver never had another infection again. When Silver had back issues we went to him. After that we only took Silver to our old vet for his shots, only because the new vet we found was an hours drive away. Otherwise we would have gone to him for that too.

There are vets out there that will gouge you for every last penny. You really need to shop around. But there are also vets that really do it for the love of the animal, and I agree, those vets don't get rich, at least not with money. :)

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread with vet talk.

That is the exception, not the rule. Most of the vets I know (which is a lot) live very humble lives, and some live paycheque to paycheque. Clinic owners seem to be better off, but associates generally aren't - they often make about the same as a registered nurse here. And their lowly staff like myself scrape along making just above the poverty line.

A registered nurse here where I live makes $32-46 an hour! If I made that kind of $$$ an hour I'd be in heaven! The first Vet that I took my dog to here in town charged me $35 to walk in $25 for Vet exam charge $42 for antibiotics $82 for a swab of her vaginal discharge just to tell me she would be dead in a week and how horrible of a person I was (in front of my 8 year old daughter) second vet was a $10 emergency walk in fee $15 Vet exam charge free antibiotics $15 emergency US $8 swab of her discharge $13 blood work. HUGE difference.

For her recheck at the second clinic she had the US, swab, nail trim on a Saturday 6:30 pm and it was $25 total! This place may be an hour and a half from where we live but we will totally be taking all of our pets there from now on. Other than my dane I also have a 10 yr old spayed female pit a 8 yr old neutered male chocolate lab a bearded dragon and a neutered male cat (with 27 toes) so our vet bills are pretty expensive anyway.

Vets also enter the working field with 8 years of education and often $100,000 of debts, and they make half what their human-medicine equivalents make.
There is a lot of upkeep to a hospital. There is rent, insurance, educated staff to pay, hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment that is required to run a practice...

Im just saying. There are Crappy vets, just like there is with mechanics, etc. But most vets hate those cruddy ones more than anyone else, because they perpetuate the false idea that all vets are in it for the money and love to gouge.
It's unfortunately a sore spot for me, as I am told on a regular basis that if we cared for pets we would do things for free. Hello? Would you ask a grocer to give you free food? I mean, does he not want to see your family STARVE?
If I wanted to make money, I would be a freakin nurse. It's basically the same education and at least twice as much pay.

Also, being a great Dane owner myself - big dogs generally = bigger bills. I prepared myself for that before getting one.

Apologies for a hijack, I just wanted to get my voice out..

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Originally Posted by Raven Rayne

For her recheck at the second clinic she had the US, swab, nail trim on a Saturday 6:30 pm and it was total! This place may be an hour and a half from where we live but we will totally be taking all of our pets there from now on. Other than my dane I also have a 10 yr old spayed female pit a 8 yr old neutered male chocolate lab a bearded dragon and a neutered male cat (with 27 toes) so our vet bills are pretty expensive anyway.

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I completely understand. Like everything else, it pays to shop around. A friend of mine has an 18 year old cat. We live in Canada, last weekend was our Thanksgiving weekend. His cat had stopped eating, and on Thanksgiving she couldn't even stand up. He took her to an emergency vet (his only option because of the holiday). A thousand dollars later, after many tests, they told him they had no idea what was wrong, gave him medication, and sent him home with his still very sick cat.

The next day he went to a vet recommended by a friend of his. It was an hour drive, but well worth it. They ran all the same tests the emergency vet clinic did, found out what the issue was, told him to throw away the pills that the emergency vet gave him, kept his cat overnight on intravenous. The total charge, $150, with new medication, and all the same test the other clinic did.

As of today, not even a week later, his cat is up and about, and doing well.

I have a small zoo as well. Vet care isn't cheap. Who can afford to spend a months pay on one vet visit? I know I can't. But does that mean only the super rich should have pets? That makes no sense either, since there are so many in the shelters in need of a home.

Maybe we should start a new thread about this, discussing vet care, options, prices, etc. I really don't want to turn your thread into a discussion about vets and how much they charge, and how the average person really can't afford it.

I'm willing to start the thread and post a link here if that's okay. Let me know. I really don't want to take away from your thread, and I feel a discussion about vets would do that. I'm sorry for my part in it. :(

Lol that's fine. I'll follow your thread also.

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Originally Posted by Raven Rayne

Lol that's fine. I'll follow your thread also.

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It took me a while to write it, and I have to say, I may have let my emotions get the best of me when I wrote it. So take it with a grain of salt. :)

Here's the link:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dogs/v...ch-771805.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raven Rayne

A registered nurse here where I live makes -46 an hour! If I made that kind of $$$ an hour I'd be in heaven! The first Vet that I took my dog to here in town charged me to walk in for Vet exam charge for antibiotics for a swab of her vaginal discharge just to tell me she would be dead in a week and how horrible of a person I was (in front of my 8 year old daughter) second vet was a emergency walk in fee Vet exam charge free antibiotics emergency US swab of her discharge blood work. HUGE difference.

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I won't address how unprofessional those statements to you were, but I do want to ask this.
Did she think your dog has a pyometra? Is this the one that did the US?

And I will agree that $82 for a vaginal swab is quite pricey, IF it was done in-house, send out is a different charge always, because of what the lab charges the clinic.

Yes he thought it was Pyo just from the swab that he did and he looked at it under a microscope right there in the room with me. It didn't go ANYWHERE. He told us because it was Friday when I took her to him it would be an emergency surgery and would cost me $3500. I asked him if antibiotic would slow it down enough for her to make it through the weekend ( as she was eating, drinking, playing) he didn't want to give them to be but did. We left I came home crying my eyes out told my husband who dropped to the floor in tears hugging his baby girl. We got up super early and started making calls asking other vets how much they would charge for the surgery and the Rascal Unit told us $600 on a weekend or after hours and $250 during the week. We took her up the same day and they did the swab, blood work, US and said that we were told wrong and that it was just a vaginal infection and would be cleared up with antibiotics.

Only the second clinic did an US on her. The first on that told us it was Pyo told us that just from the swab alone. No other tests were done.

Sometimes pyo can be detected from blood work and/or a swab. If he thought it was pyo due to a swab, than he may have seen an abundance of white blood cells and/or bacteria. Pyo is not that hard to diagnose.

As for charging you $3500 for an emergency spay... good lord! Go somewhere else.. Pyo surgery is a spay with more complications.. shouldn't cost more than $600.

Some vets like to charge a lot of money for their time. I will admitt that it is very hard to find a vet you like that works with your budget. But once you find that vet, keep them!

As for your emergency problem.. if she is drianing, than I would take the time (but not too long) to find a good vet with reasonable choices.

I love my dog, but I wouldn't pay $3500 for an emergency spay.. that's the same cost as fixing an ACL!

She doesn't have Pyo though. She had a vaginal infection and was pregnant I the first US 2-6 pups. That was at day 23 and at day 30 a differ t. Vet did the US (same place Rascal Unit) and claimed should didn't/couldn't see anything because Raven was extremely tense and flexed her tummy too tight. They said IF she gains weight, gets mammary tissue, gets a bloated looking belly to bring her back at day 45 for an X-ray to be 100% sure either way. Either a false pregnancy or a real one. I've gathered up all the supplies just in case and I've been doing as much research as I can since this will be my first litter completely alone. I think I'll be more frightened than Raven will. I took her to the vet office a few days ago and at that point she had gained 7.2 lbs in just two and a half weeks. I'm sure that she's gained more than that now. I'm lost and so is the lady that's joint breeding with me she's never had this with any of her danes or staffies.

Ultrasound is rarely an effective way to count puppies unless the ultrasound machine is super high tech. But there are just too many puppies in those long uterine horns for the ultrasound to find correctly.

I'm glad your dog doesn't have pyo.. but still, pyo surgery shouldn't cost you an arm and a leg. If you like and trust this vet, than stay with them.. but they are ungodly expensive. I'd find a different vet that isn't going to charge you a down payment for a house just to get your dog fixed.

X-ray is really the only way to go. The closer to her due date, the more visible they will be and the vet will be able to measure their heads to see if they can go through the birth canal easily. That will prepare you for either a c-section or watch for signs of distress.

Big dogs rarely have issues birthing. I'm sure your doggie will do just fine. Her wanting to nest and be close and "calming down" are a lot of signs of pregnancy.