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tomder55 · May 10, 2020, 11:23 AM

flaskback .... January 2017
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/u...leak-case.html

Athos · May 10, 2020, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Responding to Tal ,the only issue you raise that was not discussed was Flynn not informing Pence that the issue of sanctions was raised during his discussion with the Russian Ambassador .

Sorry. Our posts passed each other in cyber-land.

Love your use of the term "secret agent for a foreign power"

I knew you would. I loved it too.

As I discussed ,his acting as an agent for a foreign power should have as much jeopardy as Kerry acting as a"secret agent for a foreign power (Iran)"

Then let the chips fall where they may.

It’s more common for authorities to send a letter urging lobbyists to file necessary paperwork than jumping straight to filing criminal charges;or busting down their doors in the early morning hours while CNN cameras record footage.

Good point. That CNN camera business disturbed me, too. The details re Flynn were a bit more serious than Kerry. But, like Tal says, let's wait and see what Judge Sullivan makes of the un-conviction attempt.

tomder55 · May 10, 2020, 03:15 PM

Regardless of what Sullivan does honest observers have to reckon with what we now know about the investigation & prosecution. Exculpatory evidence was kept from Flynn, his lawyers & the public. The FBI, and later Mueller, stoked a false narrative.

talaniman · May 10, 2020, 03:22 PM

Obviously the bigger picture is derailing the Mueller report, or else the dufus simply pardons Flynn and that's the end of that. No Flynn's dealings with Turkey were not the same as Kerry and Iran.

https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/wa...g-894790211888

jlisenbe · May 10, 2020, 04:04 PM

Same story. If Obama did it, it must be OK.

jlisenbe · May 10, 2020, 07:01 PM

Just out of curiosity, who does this judge think will prosecute the case if he refuses to drop it? Seriously, who would do the prosecuting?

talaniman · May 11, 2020, 02:17 AM

His plea deal was accepted so all that's left is sentencing. The biggest hurdle would probably be convincing the judge of what they have alleged are the grounds that they are dropping the prosecution for.

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Same story. If Obama did it, it must be OK.

Anything the dufus does is seldom okay, with a high probability it's illegal, or immoral.

jlisenbe · May 11, 2020, 04:14 AM

Anything the dufus does is seldom okay,

With you, nothing is OK. It just goes along with your irrational hatred of Trump.

As for Flynn, as I understand it, the case has been dropped, so there are now no existing plea deals. Plea deals are not made with the court, they are made with the prosecution.

talaniman · May 11, 2020, 05:42 AM

I told you the judge decides if the dropping of the case is lawful and legal. We were well beyond the plea deal and into the sentencing phase. You and Tom have made your cases why this wasn't a legit prosecution and so has Barr. Now you wait for the judge to decide. You can trust what ever the dufus says and does all you want to, but I do not. I have to wait and see what happens just as you do, but this may not be the sycophants saving his bacon, by doing his bidding that you have seen before.

Meantime they are playing Pence's own words that Flynn lied to him all over cable news.

jlisenbe · May 11, 2020, 06:21 AM

Lying to the VP is not a crime, and at any rate it is certainly not what Flynn was charged with. I don't think the judge has any real choice in the matter. The prosecution has pulled out, so I would think his hands are tied. We'll see.

Bottom line: If the FBI comes to my door and asks if I will be willing to "answer a few questions", the answer will be "NO". They have disgraced themselves.

talaniman · May 11, 2020, 02:19 PM

1. That's what he was fired for lying to the VP, and lying to the FBI about his recorded conversation was what he was charged with and other more serious charges were not pursued because of his plea deal, and if you righty dufus supporters don't see the folly of the dufus sycophants getting a dufus crony off the hook with a bogus legal move then this country already is headed to hell in a handbasket. You aren't going to look good or like it when the judge starts asking questions and taking arguments.

Key witnesses, the prosecutor who had the case and quit, and the guy who filed the papers to drop the case.

2. If the FBI knocks on your door with questions please let us know how that works out for you. I doubt they accept your excuse.

Athos · May 11, 2020, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

With you, nothing is OK. It just goes along with your irrational hatred of Trump.

That "irrational hatred" is shared by about 60%+ of the public.

Plea deals are not made with the court, they are made with the prosecution.

Plea deals are approved by the court. Without the court's approval, there is no deal

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I don't think the judge has any real choice in the matter. The prosecution has pulled out, so I would think his hands are tied.

Wrong. The judge has total choice in the matter. Dismissal of the case is up to the judge regardless of what the prosecution may say or do. That includes the Justice Department and AG Barr.

tomder55 · May 11, 2020, 03:25 PM

. If the FBI knocks on your door with questions please let us know how that works out for you. I doubt they accept your excuse.

yeah now we know to not trust them under any circumstances . Flynn assumed it was a friendly conversation between the incoming national security advisor and agents of the FBI . He had no reason to suspect otherwise as he had done nothing wrong. If he was the subject of an investigation the agents should've been upfront . What happened to Flynn was just plain wrong . You know it and I know it .

No Flynn's dealings with Turkey were not the same as Kerry and Iran.

They were worse . Kerry was a private citizen trying to undermine the administrations policies toward Iran The Logan Act (although it is without a doubt an unconstitutional law) was tailor made for acts that Kerry did .

I told you the judge decides if the dropping of the case is lawful and legal.

There is zero chance the judge will overrule the Justice Dept decision. And if he did his decision would be over-turned on appeal even if it had to go to SCOTUS . The precedence has been decided on .

Meantime they are playing Pence's own words that Flynn lied to him all over cable news

.
And ? It was an administration decision to can him . It has nothing to do with his legal case .

jlisenbe · May 11, 2020, 03:39 PM

Plea deals are approved by the court. Without the court's approval, there is no deal

Plea deals are FIRST worked out with the prosecution, and then are subject to approval by the court.

Wrong. The judge has total choice in the matter. Dismissal of the case is up to the judge regardless of what the prosecution may say or do. That includes the Justice Department and AG Barr.

Kind of hard to have a case without a prosecutor, and without the government bringing charges.

talaniman · May 11, 2020, 04:08 PM

The judge has a right to ask what happened.

Athos · May 11, 2020, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Plea deals are FIRST worked out with the prosecution, and then are subject to approval by the court.

Being FIRST, has nothing to do with your original post. You never said that and you left out the second part. As for Flynn, as I understand it, the case has been dropped, so there are now no existing plea deals.

The prosecution CANNOT "drop" a case without the court's approval. Ergo, the existing plea deals remain in force.

Kind of hard to have a case without a prosecutor, and without the government bringing charges.

The case has already taken place. The government has already brought charges. Flynn has been convicted. Your point, whatever it was, is moot.

Originally Posted by talaniman

The judge has a right to ask what happened.

Tal, this very simple fact is not getting through to some here.

jlisenbe · May 11, 2020, 05:46 PM

Being FIRST, has nothing to do with your original post. You never said that and you left out the second part.

Yes, kind of like you posted the part about the judge and not about the prosecutor. Big deal.

The prosecution CANNOT "drop" a case without the court's approval. Ergo, the existing plea deals remain in force.

They just did.

Tal, this very simple fact is not getting through to some here.

Because it's about on the level of saying the judge has a right to breathe, go to the bathroom, speak English, and other startling revelations. Since the average tenth grader would know that, it would seem unnecessary to point it out.

talaniman · May 12, 2020, 12:49 AM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...vd?ocid=msn360

Legal analysts say the judge has several likely options: He could grant the DOJ's motion to dismiss with little fanfare, or give it more extensive treatment with a written opinion or hearing.

jlisenbe · May 12, 2020, 03:27 AM

Good grief. Another link. Do you not know how to put your own thoughts into words, or how to write a few sentences summing up an article?

"Legal analysts say the judge has several likely options: He could grant the DOJ's motion to dismiss with little fanfare, or give it more extensive treatment with a written opinion or hearing."

In other words, he is going to dismiss the case.

jlisenbe · May 12, 2020, 04:39 AM

So Chuck Todd (NBC NEWS) plays an edited tape of a Bill Barr interview from CBS. He goes on to say he is struck by the "cynicism" of Barr's edited comments and the fact that he did not mention the "rule of law". Except that in the full interview, Barr DID mention the rule of law. Talk about cynicism and an irrational hatred of Trump by a supposedly professional and impartial member of the news media, that was stunning. He, of course, still has his job, even after such a disgraceful performance. It is yet another example of why so many people no longer have any trust at all for the national news media. They are a bunch of empty-headed, politically motivated individuals who have no regard for the truth. Now the big question is whether or not those here who go on endlessly about the "lying Dufus" are as concerned about the "lying media". I'm going to guess not.

The now obligatory link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iBI_JKKDq0