[paraclete]

I applaud you for that. I want us to do the same thing, which means many other countries will have to spend more or prepare to be at risk.

It must be wonderful in your fantasy world where nothing is ever your responsibility

Didn't you know this land is called OZ. When you take the blame for climate change we will look to our responsibility

[jlisenbe]

When you take the blame for climate change we will look to our responsibility

You mean the climate change you claim that CO2 is not responsible for?

[paraclete]

You mean the climate change you claim that CO2 is not responsible for?

I was just pointing out the idiocy of your position

[jlisenbe]

You point out the idiocy of my position by making an appeal to climate change which you say in not man-made, and which I have commented very little about? Sounds to me like you need to look to yourself first.

[paraclete]

You point out the idiocy of my position by making an appeal to climate change which you say in not man-made, and which I have commented very little about? Sounds to me like you need to look to yourself first.

I make as much sense as you do

[jlisenbe]

I make as much sense as you do

Since you consider my position "idiotic", then is this an admission that yours is likewise???

[paraclete]

I admit nothing, I comment

[talaniman]

I don't see where haggling over a few bucks solves anything at all when the whole point is cooperation whether you can afford it or not at the time. The dufus comes in like a slum lord and hollers mo'money, without saying how he is going to fix stuff, or make it better while busting treaties and raising a stink, as he makes up stuff to take credit for.

Accomplishments NADA!

[paraclete]

Accomplishments NADA!

I think the problem is belief Tal, you didn't believe him when he said

Build a Wall
Reduce Taxes
Repeal Obamacare
Withdraw from unfair treaties
Bring the troops home
Put America first

and what has he done?

well politics is the art of the possible;

So more wall has been built
The draconian tax of Obamacare is no more
Taxes have been reduced
Treaties have been torn up
Troops have been withdrawn
Tariffs have been imposed on China


I think you should take off your rose coloured glasses, only a Syth deals in absolutes

[talaniman]

So more wall has been built-A LIE, he has built no wall just repaired what existed.
The draconian tax of Obamacare is no more-Another LIE repubs have failed repeatedly at repealing it, or dismantling it.
Taxes have been reduced- Every repub president does that. EASY PEASY.
Treaties have been torn up-Which has accomplished exactly what?
Troops have been withdrawn-How many where and what for?
Tariffs have been imposed on China-Putting farmers on welfare was a brilliant move and I'm sure as they lose those farms they will be grateful.

Like I said NADA, unless you count chaos, deceit, and misery as an accomplishment. Whose wearing those rose colored glasses?

[paraclete]

So more wall has been built-A LIE, he has built no wall just repaired what existed.
The draconian tax of Obamacare is no more-Another LIE repubs have failed repeatedly at repealing it, or dismantling it.
Taxes have been reduced- Every repub president does that. EASY PEASY.
Treaties have been torn up-Which has accomplished exactly what?
Troops have been withdrawn-How many where and what for?
Tariffs have been imposed on China-Putting farmers on welfare was a brilliant move and I'm sure as they lose those farms they will be grateful.

Like I said NADA, unless you count chaos, deceit, and misery as an accomplishment. Whose wearing those rose colored glasses?

Y

Youu believe what you want, but things are different, and only history can tell you what has actually been accomplished.

You know my position on tariffs and the rest of it, well you should try bi-partisanship some time. One thing we learned years ago, consensus can be a powerful tool

[talaniman]

Things would work better for us if we did work together, but this is as polarized as I've ever seen. Maybe that's what we have now is another CIVIL(?) war. In that case hold your hats folks.

[jlisenbe]

this is as polarized as I've ever seen.

I would agree with that.

[Vacuum7]

Talaniman: NEWS FLASH: American Farmers have been on Welfare for decades! It was called the Allotment System. Farmers were told HOW MUCH OF WHAT THEY COULD PLANT and THEY WERE PAID TO LET LAND LIE FALLOW. Government took control of Farming a long time ago, and they are very AUTHORITARIAN about it.....In effect, the Government set out to take control of Farming years ago and they have accomplished that end.

[talaniman]

Only a rightie could conflate crop rotation and agricultural policies in place for decades with the welfare they endure today because of trade policies.

[jlisenbe]

As I understand it, any farmer can simply opt out of the program by not accepting the subsidies.

[talaniman]

I have not checked and you may be correct and if so is that a good business practice? That there are few who opt out to my knowledge can lead you to believe they don't mind accepting the subsidies and the conditions that go with it. Is that also what you have found?

[jlisenbe]

I really don't know how "invasive" that program currently is. It was started during the Great Depression when the prices of cotton and wheat had fallen into the basement.

[Vacuum7]

Talaniman & jlisenbe: This farm subsidy stuff is akin to CRACK and once a farmer takes a hit, he's hooked! Like I said: Its Farmer Welfare, really no other word can make it smell any better: its like putting lipstick on a pig! SOCIALISM FOR FARMERS.....When they started enforcing the allotment programs on our farm, based off a bad drought year, no less, which meant we could not produce ANY MORE TONNAGE than we did in that poor growing year, Daddy told them to go to hell and sold his allotments to neighbor farmers and we went full-tilt into beef cattle, exclusively.

[talaniman]

Maybe your dad was right, I don't know but farmers are going bankrupt and may be forced to sell and do something else for a living. No doubt some rich guys will eventually acquire the abandoned lands at a cut rate discount in the near future. The banks will lose nothing. Never do.