[smoothy]

Don't get caught up in Obama's aspirationalism, this is the only one where he has been part of the solution in some time. He despirately needed a win

Its isn't a win yet... they haven't really changed anything yet... the the threat of becoming another Iran is still a very strong possibility at this point. Of course if it Does become another Itran... Obama will just blame it on George Bush too.

[paraclete]

Its isn't a win yet.....they haven't really changed anything yet....the the threat of becoming another Iran is still a very strong possibility at this point. Of course if it Does become another Itran....Obama will just blame it on George Bush too.

Hi Smoothy that's why I'm saying don't be caught up in his aspirationalism. I say it is a win only in that Mubarak has left office and Obama can associate himself with that outcome, but beyond that, we now have a military dictatorship in place which may be no different to Mubarak. So far the guns are silent

[tomder55]

Now that the freedom agenda is cool again ;will the President support the aspirations of the people of the Green Revolution in Iran ?

[smoothy]

Obama has his panties in a knot...

Obama 'Furious' With Hillary State Department Over Egypt

Is a civil war brewing between the Obama White House and Hillary Clinton's State Department?

A New York Times story published this weekend suggests one may have erupted already.

On Saturday, the Times, quoting numerous White House sources, sought to explain the Obama administration's erratic policy statements during the Egyptian crisis.

The paper reported that Obama was "seething" over State Department officials's statement suggesting that the administration did not want a quick transition of power in Egypt, with President Hosni Mubarak stepping down from his office immediately.

Obama felt that the State Department "made it look as if the administration were protecting a dictator and ignoring the pleas of the youths of Cairo."

As Secretary Clinton and her special envoy Frank Wisner repeatedly called for an orderly transition that would include President Mubarak remaining in office for at least a period, Obama and his team studiously sought to undermine the State Department stance.

The Times states that Mr. Obama "was furious" about Clinton's and Wisner's statements, "as Mr. Obama was demanding that change in Egypt begin right away."

Secretary Clinton was not the only figure who opposed Obama's view. Clinton was joined by Vice President Joe Biden and Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who also were advocating that Obama adhere to a cautious and more traditional foreign policy approach toward the situation in Egypt.

Unhappy about the mixed signals high-ranking officials were giving, Obama intervened directly, telling White House advisers that "this was not the message we should be delivering.”

According to the Times, the Obama White House even recruited Democratic Sen. John Kerry to appear on "Meet the Press" last Sunday to contradict Wisner's statements that reflected Secretary Clinton's views. Wisner's comments “just don't reflect where the administration has been from day one,” Kerry said on the program.

Linked NYT story... Oh my, the honeymoon is over, this proves it after 3 years of their near pornographic adolation of the Messiah...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/wo...macy.html?_r=1

[tomder55]

If I ignored everyone's statements in the 3 weeks leading up to Friday except the President's ,I would come away with the impression that the President did not have a clear policy that he was communicating .

"The real tragedy of the president's epic mishandling of Egypt is not merely the sceptical-at-best Egypt that will emerge. It's that Egypt is merely the latest episode in a pattern laid down by Barack Obama in the first two years of his presidency. In just two years, he has faced multiple crises of liberty, democracy and the American national interest abroad – and he has failed each test. Even rhetorical support for those seeking freedom, the bare minimum a president can do, is strikingly absent except under duress.

How hard would it be to back Egyptian democracy, Mr President? | Joshua Treviño | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

[excon]

If I ignored everyone's statements in the 3 weeks leading up to Friday except the President's ,I would come away with the impression that the President did not have a clear policy that he was communicating .

How hard would it be to back Egyptian democracy, Mr President?

Hello again, tom:

If I ignored the events of the last 3 weeks, I'd say your link was Monday morning quarterbacking... I'm not impressed.

excon

[tomder55]

I heard that Google worker Wael Ghonim who set up the Facebook page entitled 'We are all Khaled Said'(Khalid Said being the guy beaten to death by the Egyptian police) that sparked the demonstrations against Mubark . He was on 60 Minutes .When asked about Obama's contribution he basically said thanks for nothing.

I saw the same things you did. The President responded to his 3AM call 3 weeks later.

[NeedKarma]

When asked about Obama's contribution he basically said thanks for nothing.

What did the UK contribute? What did France contribute? What did Japan contribute? What did Canada contribute?

[paraclete]

What did the UK contribute? What did France contribute? What did Japan contribute? What did Canada contribute?

They were wise and contributed nothing

[speechlesstx]

Now that the freedom agenda is cool again ;will the President support the aspirations of the people of the Green Revolution in Iran ?

He may have his chance to try again.

[tomder55]

I expect the US press will suddenly lose interest in the Green Revolution. Maybe they need a cool chant like 'Tahrir today Tehran tomorrow' .
The world shouted "We are all Khalid "this month after he was murdered by the Egyptian police .

Neda Agha-Soltan was gunned down in Tehran on by the thugs of the Iran regime ;and although the video went viral. The world collectively yawned.

And just like in 2009 ,when the people of Iran take to the streets enmass their signs will be in Farsi and English... clearly intended to send us a message and implied plea for support.

[excon]

And just like in 2009 ,when the people of Iran take to the streets enmass their signs will be in Farsi and English ...clearly intended to send us a message and implied plea for support.

Hello again, tom:

Of course, we all hope for the freedom of the Iranian people. But, our support can no longer be two sided. We either support the revolution that's underway, or we don't. That means we need to support the people over the dictators whom we are NOW supporting throughout the Arab world.

Are you good with that?

excon

[tomder55]

It's easier to help a peaceful transition if we have a relationship with the dictator .That's just a reality .
As I have pointed out ,that was a key part of the end of the Marcos regime in the Philippines.
We have a greater impact when we pressure them to reform.

You think this just happened overnight in Egypt but I see it differently . I think we planted some seeds of this revolt in the last decade .
2005 Condi Rice visited Egypt and also met with the opposition groups. In addresses at the American University in Cairo and in a joint press conference with Foreign Minister Ahmed Abul-Gheit, Rice publicly laid out the case for freedom ."Liberty is the universal longing of every soul, and democracy is the ideal path for every nation,"...."We are all concerned for the future of Egypt's reforms "Rice told Mubarak that Egypt should "put it's faith in the people" and to allow for "free and fair" elections.She also spoke of the right of the opposition to act without waiting for "the midnight knocks of the secret police".

She said “For 60 years, the United States pursued stability at the expense of democracy in the Middle East — and we achieved neither. Now we are taking a different course. We are supporting the democratic aspirations of all people.” Those powerful statements were scoffed at by the opponents of the 'freedom agenda ' of the previous administration .


She did this a number of times in a number of nations during her stay at State. In 2008 she publicly called for Mugabe to quit .

This was consistent with the 2nd term agenda of President Bush. In his second inaugural address, the President said it is in the strategic interest of the United States to promote democracy in the Middle East: “The survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the success of liberty in other lands.”
It's satisfying that neocon is in vogue again.

I do have concerns however that the only alternative in Egypt that is sufficiently organized is the Brotherhood. We should continue to pressure the military to allow the reforms to continue... (demonstably easier to do with friends than enemies )while at the same time help organize "liberal " opposition parties. If the Brotherhood wins the elections it's 'one and done'. President Bush also led in this effort allowing the State Dept to fund the Middle East Partnership Initiative, or MEPI. They monitored the last Egyptian election ,and turned advocate for reform ,giving support and financing to some Egyptian opposition leaders .Elizabeth Cheney led that effort .
http://mepi.state.gov/

“administration increased funding for good governance and democracy in Egypt, from $3.5 million in 2005 to $55 million in 2008.” When it became clear that too much of that money found its way into the wrong hands, Liz Cheney's project within the State Department, the Middle East Partnership Initiative, began conscientiously funneling aid to independent democracy groups in Egypt. It is well known that the administration regrettably backtracked on the Freedom Agenda in its last years. And as the article notes: “When Obama took office, his administration halved the amount of money available for democracy funding in Egypt, to $20 million in 2008, and allowed Egypt to have a veto again over some funds.”

Nevertheless, the program put in place by Bush was able to dispatch 13,000 election monitors to Egypt for last December's parliamentary elections. Their ability to record and publicize the electoral fraud they witnessed was a crucial factor in the unrest that followed. “In a way or another, it helped what is happening right now,'' said Mahmoud Ali Mohamed, head of the Egyptian Association for Supporting Democracy. Saad Ibrahim, founder of the Ibn Khaldun Center for Development Studies, said, “The very fact that they saw the fraud firsthand has contributed to them turning from monitors into activists.”

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/20...merican-power/


The Iranian opposition is organized. But the regime does not bend to the pressure of internal opposition . It will only fall if pressure similar to what happened to South Africa is applied at the same time the Green Revolution is in motion.