[paraclete]

Germany is prepared to admit what we all know. Multiculturism just doesn't work.
Multiculturalism in Germany has failed, says Chancellor

[cdad]

WOW. That's about all I can say at this time.

[paraclete]

WOW. Thats about all I can say at this time.

Yes where will the left go now?

[cdad]

The Germans and the Turks have had a long standing relationship. But too far is too far and I guess the system has reached a breaking point from within. The left doesn't have any place to go except out. Its something that we may see in the U.S. if the banking and money systems get stressed enough. And it also mirror the complaints of illegals coming here too. Its far too taxing on the social system.

[paraclete]

The Germans and the Turks have had a long standing relationship. But too far is too far and I guess the system has reached a breaking point from within. The left doesnt have any place to go except out. Its something that we may see in the U.S. if the banking and money systems get stressed enough. And it also mirror the complaints of illegals coming here too. Its far too taxing on the social system.

How stressed to too stressed? The US is already printing money for the second time and has zero interest rates, the rot is spreading again to other countries and it has little to do with economic migration. I think the point made here is that integration is key to migration, Germany has learned what we learned long ago, selective migration is a good thing and opening the flood gates is not. I have said it many times we have more than enough camel (taxi)drivers, but doctors, engineers, competent people, are in short supply

[excon]

I have said it many times we have more than enough camel (taxi)drivers, but doctors, engineers, competent people, are in short supply

Hello clete:

I agree. Competent people are in short supply in your land...

excon

[paraclete]

Hello clete:

I agree. Competent people are in short supply in your land....

excon

Not only here, ex, I have observed the phenomenon is apparent in many places, but mostly where money is worshipped.

[smoothy]

I guess Politcal Correctness is officially dead in Germany. Finally... someone has the balls to state the obvious.

[Just_Another_Lemming]

Paraclete, if a multicultural society can't succeed as the article suggests, does this mean New York City has merely been an anomaly for the last hundred or so years?

I think forced multiculturalism in any country will always backfire. Doing so during a time of unparalleled economical unrest is the height in poor judgment.

[smoothy]

Paraclete, if a multicultural society can't succeed as the article suggests, does this mean New York City has merely been an anomaly for the last hundred or so years?

I think forced multiculturalism in any country will always backfire. Doing so during a time of unparalleled economical unrest is the height in poor judgment.

You are missing an important aspect here. ASSIMILATION. Most Muslims refuse to assimilate into the cultures they move to. UNLIKE the majority of those in the past, like the USA and Australia for two examples.

They became PART of the American and Australian culture... not maintaining a separate culture of their own they refused to let go of. THAT is the difference.

[Just_Another_Lemming]

I am not missing anything here Smoothy.

Assimilation occurs over generations. We cannot expect people to simply come together without any issues or problems. There are always going to be problems when people of many different backgrounds are forced to co-exist. If you look at U.S. history, it wasn't easy for any of the immigrants (Irish, Chinese, Germans, Jews,. ) when they first came over here to live. They all faced discrimination and persecution of varying degrees. But, over time they have managed either to fully assimilate (and lose touch with their roots) or find a way to interweave their own ethnic & religious beliefs into their daily lives here.

So, time is the critical element that is missing from that study.

BTW, I am surprised no one has yet mentioned anything regarding another part of the study. Of all the people surveyed, "more than one in 10 called for a 'fuehrer' to run the country 'with a strong hand'.'' With that attitude I don't wonder why the study failed.

[tomder55]

I think multiculturalism can succeed .It is tougher in a homogenious society like Germany . The United States is an example where it has largely succeeded .

However... Smoothy is correct in pointing out that the melting pot is a 2 way street .It does require assimilation .

[tomder55]

Do you think they will arrest Merkel and try her for hate speech like they are doing to Dutch MP Geert Wilders ?

[paraclete]

You are missing an important aspect here. ASSIMILATION. Most Muslims refuse to assimilate into the cultures they move to. UNLIKE the majority of those in the past, like the USA and Australia for two examples.

They became PART of the American and Australian culture....not maintaining a separate culture of their own they refused to let go of. THAT is the difference.

Can't speak for america but in Australia early waves of migrants assimulated but recent ones have not and in the 70's there was a big push for multuculturism with efforts to allow immigration without assimilation, this has backfired with pockets of various cultures and it led to violence with Muslims a few years ago and a problem with indians today.

As Smoothy said the problem is Muslims don't assimulate

[Just_Another_Lemming]

Paraclete, I can't generalize the way you and Smoothy do because my experience is different from yours. The handful of Muslims I know well are either 2nd or 3rd generation and have assimilated, were born in the U.S. but converted to Islam, interacting with non-Muslims on a daily basis without incident, or came from another country, went to college/university here and stayed after marrying a Christian and although never converted to Christianity themselves, the children were raised Christian. All of those are cases of Muslims successfully assimilating In my opinion.

[tomder55]

I'll speak from experience ,living in NY . It is hard to tell the difference between the Italian owned pizzaria and the Bosnian owned pizzaria... or the Jewish and Muslim owned bagel shops. From my experience most Muslims here have assimilated nicely .

But the cavet is the word most . There is a substantial population that hasn't or won't. It is also a fact that it is less likely that the Muslim populations in Europe will adopt the culture of their adopted homes. But in the case of
Europe ,I find little evidence that the people of the continent are inclinded to defend their culture and history. They are more likely to be assimilated into the greater ummah as dimmis .

[paraclete]

I'll speak from experience ,living in NY . It is hard to tell the difference between the Italian owned pizzaria and the Bosnian owned pizzaria....or the Jewish and Muslim owned bagel shops. From my experience most Muslims here have assimilated nicely .

But the cavet is the word most . There is a substantial population that hasn't or won't. It is also a fact that it is less likely that the Muslim populations in Europe will adopt the culture of their adopted homes. But in the case of
Europe ,I find little evidence that the people of the continent are inclined to defend their culture and history. They are more likely to be assimilated into the greater ummah as dimmis .

Tom I can't speak of the same experience, we have whole suburbs in major cities where an english sign is not in sight and the streets are peopled by people in strange garb, hard to tell the difference from down town Kabul. The Jews who came here assimulated, so did the Serbs, but the Muslims will even shoot up the local police station
Lakemba?s terrorist connections: The ?axis of evil? in Australia

[Just_Another_Lemming]

But the cavet is the word most . There is a substantial population that hasn't or won't.

Maybe it depends on where you live?
I haven't seen anything that I would consider a substantial population of Muslims that haven't or won't assimilate in the U.S. The closest thing to that I am aware of is the Eastern Indian population in Jersey City but I don't know if the majority are Muslim or Hindu. Although they have taken over a large area, I am not aware of any social problems/clashes. They appear to have become just another subculture of the U.S. much in the same way Chinatown in NY & San Francisco are.

It is also a fact that it is less likely that the Muslim populations in Europe will adopt the culture of their adopted homes. But in the case of Europe ,I find little evidence that the people of the continent are inclinded to defend their culture and history. They are more likely to be assimilated into the greater ummah as dimmis .

According to that article as I pointed out earlier, "more than one in 10 called for a 'fuehrer' to run the country 'with a strong hand'.'' Although it may not be a majority of the German population, history has taught us that all it takes is a handful of people and general economic unrest to change the world they live in. If you look at what is going on in France regarding the Muslim community, they definitely are defending their culture.

In any event, per an article written by Timothy Savage in the Washington Quarterly 6 years ago, the European nations are fast approaching the tipping point regarding the clash of cultures. http://www.twq.com/04summer/docs/04summer_savage.pdf

======
Paraclete, I thought Australia, Canada, & the U.S. have a history of being much more culturally diverse nations than any other countries in the world. To my knowledge, Canada & the U.S. have not experienced such localized/focused violence (shooting up of local police stations) from Muslim immigrants. Why do you think Australia is experiencing this?

[tomder55]

I haven't seen anything that I would consider a substantial population of Muslims that haven't or won't assimilate in the U.S.

Just as there are Christian ,Amish ,Orthodox Jewish(or the Jersey City Indian population you speak of ) enclaves throughout the nation ;there are also Islamic enclaves. Here in upstate NY we have a village called 'Islamberg'. It is an exclusive community of Muslims founded by a Pakistani cleric .It is a community of mixed immgrant and converts.
Holy Islamville is a Muslim village in South Carolina ;Aliville is one in Georgia.

There is another one in Gwynn Oaks section of Baltimore. There is also a growing one in Little Rock Ak.

We are late to the game . In many European cities there are areas of 'no go zones' where local authorities dare not go. For all intents ,civil law has been replaced by Sharia in these areas.

[albear]

I am not missing anything here Smoothy.

Assimilation occurs over generations. We cannot expect people to simply come together without any issues or problems. There are always going to be problems when people of many different backgrounds are forced to co-exist. If you look at U.S. history, it wasn't easy for any of the immigrants (Irish, Chinese, Germans, Jews,...) when they first came over here to live. They all faced discrimination and persecution of varying degrees. But, over time they have managed either to fully assimilate (and lose touch with their roots) or find a way to interweave their own ethnic & religious beliefs into their daily lives here.

So, time is the critical element that is missing from that study.

BTW, I am surprised no one has yet mentioned anything regarding another part of the study. Of all the people surveyed, "more than one in 10 called for a 'fuehrer' to run the country 'with a strong hand'.'' With that attitude I don't wonder why the study failed.

The word Führer is a "leader" or "guide" so really the chancellor is the same thing at the moment but under a different name because of who is most commonly associated with that title, but basically what I think is meant by that is that they want a more decicive and stronger will'ed leader and not a purge on other races as seems to be implied by the media in this statement.

I agree that integration is a key part to make multiculturalism work, especially learning the native language. How to go about enforcing this with comunities in society that have chosen to be distant from the people who's country they live in is a tough one, as is getting the laws in place to help future immigrants to their respective countries integrate.