Ask Me Help Desk - Is this a generational way of thinking or actually founded in reality ?

Is this a generational way of thinking or actually founded in reality ?

Are we seeing a complete disconnect between perceived reality and scientific fact, or is it merely a change in semantic usage.
The old Sex and Gender topic yet again.

Are Sex and Gender the same and interchangeable or separate and distinct ?
Should we, as the general public, respect each and everyone's personal choice of pronoun, or address people as they present ?
Are pronouns, especially neo-pronouns, becoming an extension of people's names ?
Has the whole feeling of individual entitlement gone far to far ?

I'm actually looking for a discussion, not more rhetoric.

I'll just move and bump this one as I'm actually interested in other's views.

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Has the whole feeling of individual entitlement gone far to far ?

That's a great question. It goes back, at some level, to Jordan Peterson's argument with the Canadian government trying to compel their people to address deceived people in a certain, government-prescribed manner. We have to absolutely resist that.

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Originally Posted by Curlyben

Are Sex and Gender the same and interchangeable or separate and distinct ?

Sex is what one sees when someone is naked. Gender is what that naked person's brain says.

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Should we, as the general public, respect each and everyone's personal choice of pronoun, or address people as they present ?

Sure. Why shouldn't we? It's really not difficult! (And for jlisenbe, it gives me an opportunity to love unconditionally and to tell the individual about His love.)

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Sex is what one sees when someone is naked. Gender is what that naked person's brain says.

A completely made-up set of daffynitions only brought about recently by the transgender movements desire to normalize their mental delusions. The truth is that gender and sex have been somewhat synonymous for several centuries, the distinction being that gender is used more as a class or group word while sex has been used to refer more to the reproductive functions. So we would say, "Two people were having sex (not gender) in the movie last night," while a man might would say, "I am of the male gender (not sex)." Sex can be used to refer to the functions of the pistil and stamen of a flower while gender typically would be more limited only to humans. Reproduction not involving male and female is known as asexual reproduction, not agender reproduction. Both words are objective, not subjective.

This desire to normalize and defend the TG movement is also why we now have a female Supreme Court member who can't figure out what it means to be a woman.

A man is a man, and a woman is a woman. Claiming otherwise is magical thinking, fine for one to indulge personally . Buta mistake culturally and societally . While conservatives celebrate the differences the progressives want to deny the differences because it contradicts their utopian egalitarianism by denying gender roles.

It denies basic biology. For a man to become a "woman" or a woman become a "man" requires mutualization and sterilization. Biologically humans need to procreate to survive as a species .

But gender advocates began teaching otherwise. Berkley professor Judith Butler (author of 'Gender Trouble: Feminism and the Subversion of Identity') wrote that “gender is in no way a stable identity or locus of agency.”
Performative Acts and Gender Constitution: An Essay in Phenomenology and Feminist Theory | Trans Reads

In reality she promotes the idea that gender, and sex are oppressive social constructs. She then combines that with other radical leftist theories such as critical race theory(CRT). “The question of who and what is considered real and true is … a question of power.”

The Question of Power and Authority in Gender Performance: (gla.ac.uk)

It is the Marxist struggle taken beyond economics .

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'There is no theory which accounts for the oppression of women—in its endless variety and monotonous similarity, cross-culturally and throughout history—with anything like the explanatory power of the Marxist theory of class oppression.”

RUBtti.pdf (philpapers.org)

They can then lump all people who oppose their theories as the oppressor class which fits in perfectly in a Marxist viewpoint.

Transgender Marxism (plutobooks.com)

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the progressives want to deny the differences because it contradicts their utopian egalitarianism like denying gender roles.

I think it also includes a desire to be seen as the newly enlightened class.

When men can be women and women can be men, then all delusions become possible. Wonder what's next? The battle to affirm the basic humanity of the unborn continues. We have managed to build a somewhat fragile wall there. If it falls, then what group would be next?

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They can then lump all people who oppose their theories as the oppressor class which fits in perfectly in a Marxist viewpoint.

That's a really good point. It's the use of deceit to advance a cause. The real question is, what cause are they truly trying to advance? It usually comes down to some level of personal benefit.

“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “who is to be master – that's all.”

Yes indeed. We were founded on the concept that each person is largely to be his/her own master. That is slipping away.

I pray that you all will become transgender when we're given the empathy test before we're allowed into heaven.

There is no empathy test.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

There is no empathy test.

Gabriel hasn't told you about it yet?! It starts in this life and ends with a final score before you are allowed to cross the Rainbow Bridge.

So, zero basis in reality, it would appear.
Must say I'm slightly shocked, but not unduly surprised.

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Originally Posted by Curlyben

So, zero basis in reality, it would appear.
Must say I'm slightly shocked, but not unduly surprised.

Just you wait! What fun we will have!!!

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So, zero basis in reality, it would appear.

That's about it. The support for TG consists of inventing evidence and then presenting it as truth as well as redefining words away from their historically understood meanings.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

That's about it. The support for TG consists of inventing evidence and then presenting it as truth as well as redefining words away from their historically understood meanings.

Please have a conversation with someoe who has completed the trans change. Ask why the need in the first place. Find out what is done and why and how. Ask about emotional and physical issues and how this has greatly improved life.

My area is dealing with men who are in drug/alcohol addiction. They all have stories, and many of them are heart rending. That does not change the fact that addiction is bad and men need to escape from it. So your suggestion adds absolutely nothing to the conversation other than to point out that TG people, like many other groups, have emotionally gripping stories. It does not mean they have, in any way, changed from male to female or vice-versa.

'emotional and physical issues' that would be better solved with less extreme measures than mutilation and sterilization

To be clear, my heart goes out to these people, just as my heart goes out to a man caught in addiction who leaves our program to return to a world where, in his entire adult life, he has known nothing but the world of addiction, and I know the odds are pretty significant that he will return to that life. It's tragic, but it doesn't mean I pat him on the back and assure him that drug addiction is really a quite wonderful thing.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

'emotional and physical issues' that would be better solved with less extreme measures than mutilation and sterilization

Those have been tried and don't work. The issues are created by... heck, I'll dig out the explanation that a trans woman gave me and post it
here.

You'll dig out the explanation offered up by a woman afflicted with TG? Kind of don't think that will qualify as either unbiased or scientific.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You'll dig out the explanation offered up by a woman afflicted with TG? Kind of don't think that will qualify as either unbiased or scientific.

What will you accept? (Actually it was a man who knew by age 7 that "he" was female, and took all the correct steps to make the change.)

You chose to be male? When did you make that choice?

UN Women's UK chapter was founded in 2010 . The mission of the agency is for "gender equality and the empowerment of women and girls" .
United Nations: Gender equality and women's empowerment

So how did the UK branch choose to empower women and girls ?

They appointed a transformer model as their ambassador.

17 groups representing REAL women penned a letter of opposition

A letter to UN Women from UK campaign groups | Fair Play For Women

On top of the fact that he is not a woman ; He has used his celebrity in the past to make racist comments .

I'll say it again. The transformer movement has set back women's rights back years

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What will you accept?

That which is not based upon the biased, non-scientific account of one person.

I read a book recently about a woman who was a radical lesbian activist. She had her PhD and was a wheel in a major university, leading the movement for "gay rights". But then she met a pastor who introduced her to Jesus and her life changed. She married a man and had two children. She still sometimes has desire for women, but she put that aside to follow a greater desire and a much greater truth. Her story is the story of one person, just like the person you mentioned was just one individual. So will you accept her story as the norm for all lesbian women?

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I'll say it again. The transformer movement has set back women's rights back years

Perhaps that is because the women's rights movement eventually devolved into something that was nothing more than a reactionary political movement that wasn't so much about women's rights as it was about power.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So will you accept her story as the norm for all lesbian women?

Obviously, she is bi, not 100% lesbian.

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Obviously, she is bi, not 100% lesbian.

Nope. She was never interested in men. She married and had children because of her commitment to Christ which, I think, is something you are not familiar with, or you would not have made the comment you posted.

I guess, especially for Wondergirl, the question now is, What is a woman ?

Also a biological man, that displays as male, yet identifies female and dresses as a woman, how do we address them ?
The term used to be transvestite, but I guess that's no longer allowed.

A transvestite (e.g., a drag queen) is NOT a transgender, not in any way, shape or form.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

A transvestite (e.g., a drag queen) is NOT a transgender, not in any way, shape or form.

and.....

According to an online dictionary (Merriam-Webster), a transvestite is:

a person who wears clothes designed for the opposite sex : a cross-dresser.

The person has a choice in the matter.
**********
The same dictionary defines transgender:

of, relating to, or being a person whose gender identity is opposite the sex the person was identified as having at birth.

The person doesn't have a choice in the matter.

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The person has a choice in the matter.

Everyone has a choice. The TV can just as effectively argue that he was supposedly born with a desire to dress like a woman. It's always a choice, a decision, that takes place.

And the answer to the BIG ticket item is......

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Originally Posted by Curlyben

I guess, especially for Wondergirl, the question now is, What is a woman ?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Everyone has a choice. The TV can just as effectively argue that he was supposedly born with a desire to dress like a woman. It's always a choice, a decision, that takes place.

Not at all. Of course, if the transgender chooses not to behave as the gender displayed, that person suffers GD. Gender dysphoria (GD) is currently understood by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders as an incongruence between one’s affirmed gender and the gender assigned at birth (natal or biological sex).

An "incongruence" between reality and my perception of reality is mental illness, or perhaps just deception. I imagine we all suffer from it at some level.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

An "incongruence" between reality and my perception of reality is mental illness, or perhaps just deception. I imagine we all suffer from it at some level.

Especially when your body says you're a male but your hormones and brain are screaming that you're a female.

don't feel bad . SCOTUS Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson could not say what a woman was either .

Sen. Blackburn slams Judge Jackson on definition of 'woman' (nypost.com)

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your hormones and brain are screaming that you're a female.

Except that TG is not related to hormones. When hormones "scream" to a person that she is female, it's because she is female. There is no indication that I'm aware of that hormones have anything to do with TG. You have tried in the past to link some hormonal treatment of pregnant women to TG, but as has been pointed out frequently, that particular medical treatment was stopped fifty years ago, so you have been left, so far as I can see, with no support for that idea.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Except that TG is not related to hormones. When hormones "scream" to a person that she is female, it's because she is female.

Yes, that person is male-looking when "he" takes off his clothes, but hormones and chromosomes say female.

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but hormones and chromosomes say female.

A completely absurd statement for which there is no support whatsoever, and which all of science plainly contradicts. It's a ridiculous idea to suggest that a person with male genitalia has female sex chromosomes. You really need to find some friends who have at least a basic understanding of biology.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

A completely absurd statement for which there is no support whatsoever, and which all of science plainly contradicts. It's a ridiculous idea to suggest that a person with male genitalia has female sex chromosomes. You really need to find some friends who have at least a basic understanding of biology.

Time for you to leave the science learning you got in the '70s and then handed out after that.

And no matter what I post, you'll spit on it. Please do honest research. Start with something general and simple to understand, like in Wikipedia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_woman

Google: science transgender.