Ask Me Help Desk - The Debauchery of Purity

The Debauchery of Purity

The new Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, is under attack for not pushing his daughter down the path of sexual whoredom. He had the temerity, a number of years ago, to attend a "purity ball" with her. It's a formal event, meant to be enjoyable, in which the daughter agrees to be abstinent until she is married, thus denying the feds the opportunity to have one more single mom on the welfare rolls. This is what ABC had to say about what is to them a HIGHLY controversial event.

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ABC News shared a video of House Speaker Mike Johnson, R-La., with his daughter at a Christian "purity ball," calling it a "controversial formal dance event."

"The German news segment documented Johnson and his family preparing for and then attending a purity ball, a controversial formal dance event, popular among some conservative Christians, that gained notoriety in the early 2000s," the outlet wrote.
A purity ball, which usually features a father and daughter dance and encourages sexual abstinence before marriage, is a family-centered event.
ABC also described purity balls as a subject of intense debate within Christian circles. "Since growing in popularity in the 1990s and early 2000s," the outlet wrote, "purity balls and purity pledges have faced increased scrutiny from both inside and outside the Christian community, ranging from criticism that the practice places too much of a burden on young women to accusations that the balls themselves objectify young girls."
ABC continued: "At a typical event, fathers and their teenage daughters dress in formal ball attire for a night that involves dinner and dancing and culminates with the daughter signing a pledge to her father to abstain from dating and to remain sexually abstinent until marriage," ABC wrote.

Rather plainly, ABC News just can't connect with the idea of a young man or woman choosing to wait for sexual activity until after the knot is tied. I imagine they much prefer the Michael LaRosa approach to sex.

time to revisit this Jill Biden tweet from 2020

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBcf-WWX...jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GA1PtfDX...jpg&name=small

Here is a photo from a purity ball
https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset..._960_noupscale

I would think it should be considered to be a good thing for a young woman to value herself.

A purity ball is a bit more complicated than what you think. It culminates with the daughter signing a pledge to her father to abstain from dating and to remain sexually abstinent until marriage.

Read the entire Wikipedia article, Purity Ball, for some interesting insights

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I would think it should be considered to be a good thing for a young woman to value herself.

That's not the point of a purity ball.

It is exactly the point.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

It is exactly the point.

Nope. Dancing, in particular slow dancing in a darkened room, creates lascivious thoughts in the minds of the dancers who rub up against each other's bodies, especially the front. Dance partners can rub each other's back and butt as they dance and nibble each other's neck and cheek and lips. The cut of the dress the female is wearing stimulates her male partner toward all sorts of moves and activities.

What ? No drag queens twerking at the ball "? Now that is what is normal ..... right ?

I'm betting Speaker Johnson's name is not on Jeffery Epstein's guest list .

And where are the dad's hands in that photo you posted, tomder? And look at the girl's face, her expression.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

What ? No drag queens twerking at the ball "? Now that is what is normal ..... right ?

Nope, no drag queens at a purity ball because only conservative, evangelical Christians hold purity balls.

yeah he's a real incestuous perv ;no doubt ravishing her from behind .</sarc> Only the perverted mind could find fault with the idea that a father pledges to protect his daughter ;or a young woman pledges to abstain until marriage .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

yeah he's a real incestuous perv ;no doubt ravishing her from behind .</sarc> Only the perverted mind could find fault with the idea that a father pledges to protect his daughter ;or a young woman pledges to abstain until marriage .

I grew up in a conservative, evangelical Christian church -- and have stories to tell.

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only conservative, evangelical Christians hold purity balls.

And thus you confess your true objection.

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Only the perverted mind could find fault with the idea that a father pledges to protect his daughter ;or a young woman pledges to abstain until marriage .

Agree completely. It's one thing for a person to suggest they would not care to have such a ceremony for their daughter, but it's quite another to say that the dad in the pic was basically molesting his daughter. That's way out of bounds.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

And thus you confess your true objection.

My "true objection" was stated earlier -- I grew up in a conservative, evangelical Christian church -- and have stories to tell.

For instance,I was not allowed to attend a school dance or dance at a wedding, etc. BECAUSE (I was warned by my parents) --

"Nope. Dancing, in particular slow dancing in a darkened room, creates lascivious thoughts in the minds of the dancers who rub up against each other's bodies, especially the front. Dance partners can rub each other's back and butt as they dance and nibble each other's neck and cheek and lips. The cut of the dress the female is wearing stimulates her male partner toward all sorts of moves and activities."

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My "true objection" was stated earlier -- I grew up in a conservative, evangelical Christian church -- and have stories to tell.

For instance,I was not allowed to attend a school dance or dance at a wedding, etc. BECAUSE (I was warned by my parents) --

So? You attended a supposedly conservative church populated, it would seem, by perverts. How does that affect any at all the experiences and motives of the millions of Evangelicals you've never even met? I think parents encouraging young people to reserve sex for marriage is a great idea. Of course I'm reminded as I post this that you lied bigtime about your supposed dating experiences in this church, so I don't know that I take any of your observations too seriously.

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"Nope. Dancing, in particular slow dancing in a darkened room, creates lascivious thoughts in the minds of the dancers who rub up against each other's bodies, especially the front. Dance partners can rub each other's back and butt as they dance and nibble each other's neck and cheek and lips. The cut of the dress the female is wearing stimulates her male partner toward all sorts of moves and activities."

That is frequently true. I have no idea what your point is.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So? You attended a supposedly conservative church populated, it would seem, by perverts. How does that affect any at all the experiences and motives of the millions of Evangelicals you've never even met?

I didn't say they were perverts. You did.

Throughout my long life, I've met far more evangelicals than you have.

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I think parents encouraging young people to reserve sex for marriage is a great idea.

Yes, it is. But those same parents encourge their daughters not to date and, once married, to be a home-bound wife that produces many children.

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Of course I'm reminded as I post this that you lied bigtime about your supposed dating experiences in this church

How so?

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That is frequently true. I have no idea what your point is.

The sexual point...or, better, the opportunity to subtly touch and "feel".

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I didn't say they were perverts. You did.

Please learn the meaning of, "it would seem".

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Throughout my long life, I've met far more evangelicals than you have.

What a ridiculous statement. You have no idea of how many evangelicals I have known.

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How so

Are you denying this? I can happily provide the link.

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The sexual point...or, better, the "feel".

Slow dancing can be sensual. So?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

What a ridiculous statement. You have no idea of how many evangelicals I have known.

I was a PK, a Christian teacher, a church librarian, a member of and eventually the president of the church group of women who managed the church nursery. My entire life has been hanging out with evangelicals.

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Slow dancing can be sensual. So?

Doncha know? Sensual before marriage is evil and the path to hell.

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I was a PK, a Christian teacher, a church librarian. My entire life has been hanging out with evangelicals.

It's just an absurd statement by you. I probably met more evangelicals in my two years of Bible college than in your lifetime, but even if your statement is true, it means you have, perhaps, met 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% of all the Evangelicals in the world. So yeah, you have no idea what they think.

Slow dancing can be sensual. So?

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Sensual before marriage is evil and the path to hell.

I would not encourage it, but I feel pretty sure you would.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I probably met more evangelicals in my two years of Bible college than in your lifetime

I attended a Christian college for FOUR years.

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I would not encourage it, but I feel pretty sure you would.

Dancing, especially slow dancing in a darkened gym, is a tool used by Satan.

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I attended a Christian college for FOUR years.

And since that time, I have been in MANY evangelical churches. You, by your own admission, have not been in church for 25 years. Might add that the great majority of Lutheran churches are not considered to be evangelical, so most of your experiences have been with NON evangelicals. Correct? At any rate, as I said earlier, you know a vanishingly small slice of evangelicals, so you can't go on your personal experiences. Neither, of course, can I.

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Dancing, especially slow dancing in a darkened gym, is a tool used by Satan.

So you are opposed to it. We agree!!

I've been involved with churches, e.g., Pentecostal and Assemblies especially, just not my home church. And I edit/proofread/tweak sermons for several pastors.

P.S. The LCMS (my home church body) is considered evangelical. The ELCA is open-minded, liberal.

Have never been to a dance, never danced, even at private parties. My parents allowed me to square dance. :-)

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P.S. The LCMS (my home church body)

You mean the one you haven't attended in twenty years?

You might as well give it up. You know such a tiny, tiny percentage of evangelicals that your opinion, as well as mine, means but very little.

I don't really know what I think about dancing. Wifey and I went to a wedding a few years ago. They were all doing something called "the electric slide" or whatever it was. I saw no problem at all with it. We almost jumped in ourselves. I wish now we had done so.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You mean the one you haven't attended in twenty years?

And have worked with evangelical pastors and their churches?

The Electric Slide isn't a slow dance in a darkish room. Amd I'm talking about teens, not old married couples.

And again, you know such a tiny, tiny percentage of evangelicals that your opinion, as well as mine, means but very little.

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And have worked with evangelical pastors and their churches?

I have for decades. You have not for at least twenty years.

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Amd I'm talking about teens, not old married couples.

What??? You're suggesting I'm "old"???

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I have for decades. You have not for at least twenty years.

Proofreading and editing their sermons isn't interacting with evangelicals?

Nope, anymore than me reading a book is any kind of real interaction with the author. And it is certainly not interacting with "their churches", as you claimed.

Say what you will and believe what you will. My point is simply that you can't say, "Throughout my long life, I've met far more evangelicals than you have." It's a ridiculous statement considering that you have no idea of how many evangelicals I've met.

I've rescued and adopted more stray/feral cats than you have too.

You can have em all. Not real interested in cats. I'm more interested in people.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You can have em all. Not real interested in cats. I'm more interested in people.

Oh, yeah, I've rescued and "adopted" those too! Public libraries are perfect places to find them, trying to stay warm and dry and get some sleep in a study room. I even wrote heartwarming stories about my very favorite homeless guy, Jerry.

Back to the purity topic, more than a few of the Christian women I know (who had abstained from sex before marriage) are divorced from their first husband ("a total loser in bed") and remarried (after "trying him out a few times").

I certainly hope that as a Christian counselor you told those ladies that divorcing a husband because he was a total loser in bed and sleeping with another man before marrying him are all acts of sin. We stay married and we stay sexually pure because we want to please God and be obedient to Him. These things generally lead to a better life, but one way or the other, we rejoice because we are in God's will.

The deed had already been done. I had no business preaching hell and damnation. If anything, those divorced men should be taught how to please a woman/wife.

How convenient for you.

I said nothing about hell and damnation. I spoke of the will of God. You should have.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I said nothing about hell and damnation. I spoke of the will of God. You should have.

No, you said, "divorcing a husband because he was a total loser in bed and sleeping with another man before marrying him are all acts of sin" and sin is the road to hell according to evangelists/conservative Christians.

So where in my quote is any reference to hell other than your own deceptive addition?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So where in my quote is any reference to hell other than your own deceptive addition?

Sooooo, acts of sin ("divorcing a husband because he was a total loser in bed and sleeping with another man before marrying him are all acts of sin") ISN'T the road to hell?

You raised the issue, so you answer the question, but please don’t make up what I have said.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You raised the issue, so you answer the question, but please don’t make up what I have said.

What part did I make up?