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President Zelenskyy of Ukraine made a great speech to Congress tonight, thanking America for its help in Ukraine's war with Russia. Encouraging continued bi-partisan support, he compared it to the American struggle for independence and survival citing Saratoga and the Bulge.
It was the greatest war-time speech since Churchill in 1941.
He is a good actor . Madam Mimi said the same thing about the address. If I were he I would also appreciate the extra $45 billion coming his way . He made it a point that ($ 100 billion in aid total) is still not enough . Hey he knows that Congress is prepared to give America a great going away FU in the form if $1.7 trillion spending bill as they depart . So an additional $45 billion in monopoly bucks is small potatoes to those who don't have to shell it out .
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkgLtYYa...jpg&name=small
He will fight the Russians to the last American buck and America will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian,.
As the swamp shells more and more monopoly $$ to him ,have they asked for an accounting of where it goes ? I know some of it is going to emptying our strategic supplies of weapons . So it is good for the military industrial complex.
Back in the Iraq war opponents spoke of mission creep and exit strategy . Well Clueless already told us the exit strategy . He wants regime change in Russia. He and the other SWAMP neo-cons even set the stage for the conflict by insisting that Ukraine be invited to join NATO. Yes Ukraine cannot do it by itself . We are being prepped to enter the war just like Lend Lease prepped us for entry into WWII . So yes Zelinsky's address is comparable to Churchill's 1941 Christmas address .
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury (George Washington )
https://i.etsystatic.com/15635938/r/...07824_hj1d.jpg
Amazing how many people support the feds giving more money to Ukraine so long as it doesn't cost them anything. No new taxes will be necessary since we will just print the money or borrow it. It's yet another example of cost-free charity which liberals hide behind in order to look benevolent.
So you prefer Putin to Zelenskyy? Like your boy Trump?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Not the way YOU mean it.Quote:
Madam Mimi said the same thing about the address.
Of course he appreciates it. He said so in just those words.Quote:
If I were he I would also appreciate the extra $45 billion coming his way
How would you do it?Quote:
He will fight the Russians to the last American buck and America will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian
That's what happens in a war. Nothing new there.Quote:
I know some of it is going to emptying our strategic supplies of weapons . So it is good for the military industrial complex.
As an American, don't you want the same thing? Or, like Trump, do you support Putin? Let us know.Quote:
Joe already told us the exit strategy . He wants regime change in Russia.
Putin invaded Ukraine. Rewriting history is a no-no.Quote:
He set the stage for the conflict by insisting that Ukraine be invited to join NATO.
Ever hear of Pearl Harbor?Quote:
We are being prepped to enter the war just like Lend Lease prepped us for entry into WWII
Glad you agree. Both were brilliant orations.Quote:
yes Zelinsky's address is comparable to Churchill's 1941 Christmas address
why do I have to pick a side ? Stalin and Hitler were at war and I woud've picked neither . Sadam and the Ayatola AS$hola were at war and I hoped they would bleed both their countries dry . Let's not pretend about Zelinsky . He has many authoritarian instincts .Quote:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by tomder55 https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom...post-right.png
He is a good actor
So you prefer Putin to Zelenskyy? Like your boy Trump?
Not our concern . Did we rush to aid Georgia when Russia attacked ? Did we rush to aid Ukraine when Putin seized Crimea in 2014 ? The emperor sings a different tune now than then.Quote:
He will fight the Russians to the last American buck and America will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian
How would you do it?
If it was our war then yesQuote:
I know some of it is going to emptying our strategic supplies of weapons . So it is good for the military industrial complex.
That's what happens in a war. Nothing new there.
Now you are getting close to what is happening .But you got the narrative a bit backwards . I think this obsession with Putin is just more TDS . It has been indisputably proven the charges against Trump were bogus and trumped up ;and the Dems and never Trumpers can't let it go .Quote:
Joe already told us the exit strategy . He wants regime change in Russia.
As an American, don't you want the same thing? Or, like Trump, do you support Putin? Let us know.
Wrong war . Lend Lease began in March 1941 10 months before Pearl Harbor and it was to aid England and Russia to beat Germany ... That was the war Roosevelt was determined to enter .Quote:
We are being prepped to enter the war just like Lend Lease prepped us for entry into WWII
Ever hear of Pearl Harbor?
What they both have in common was that they saw American material aid will eventually lead to American blood being spilt .Quote:
yes Zelinsky's address is comparable to Churchill's 1941 Christmas address
Glad you agree. Both were brilliant orations.
And he has swamp critter Yertle saying that giving away American monopoly bucks to Ukraine is America's # 1 priority . I wonder what is his cut . He already sold out to the Chinese so it doesn't surprise me that he thinks American money is better spent in Ukraine than dealing with the scores of domestic issues that needs to be addressedQuote:
If I were he I would also appreciate the extra $45 billion coming his way
Of course he appreciates it. He said so in just those words.
Why? Because the nation of which you are a citizen, has opted to support democracy against the biggest terrorist on the planet. That's why.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
These comparisons are so lame, I'm speechless (and that's not the norm for moi).Quote:
Stalin and Hitler were at war and I woud've picked neither . Sadam and the Ayatola AS$hola were at war and I hoped they would bleed both their countries dry
Who's pretending? The guy's a hero in every freedom-loving country on the planet. Instincts are one thing - actions another. Trump, of course, is totally ANTI-authoritarianism, right?Quote:
Let's not pretend about Zelinsky . He has many authoritarian instincts
So your answer is, do nothing? We should start calling you Neville.Quote:
Not our concern . Did we rush to aid Georgia when Russia attacked ? Did we rush to aid Ukraine when Putin seized Crimea in 2014 ? The emperor sings a different tune now than then.
It is the war of all who condemn the invasion by a fascist country against a democratic (small d) country.Quote:
If it was our war then yes
Putin's murders of his own people and now his causing hundreds of thousands of young barely-trained Russian soldier deaths in a terror-driven invasion of his neighbor is TDS?? How does that kool-aid taste?Quote:
I think this obsession with Putin is just more TDS
That's a complete fabrication, and you know it. Mueller cited ten obstruction of justice crimes, and the Jan 6 committee referred several felonious crimes by Trump to the DOJ. Mueller knew that Trump couldn't/wouldn't be prosecuted (by a friendly AG) while he was president, so he did his duty, named the crimes and waited for the wheels of justice to turn. That is happening as I write this. They are turning.Quote:
It has been indisputably proven the charges against Trump were bogus and trumped up
You don't let major crimes "go" until the perp is fitted for an orange jumpsuit.Quote:
The Dems and never Trumpers can't let it go
On December 8, that was the war Roosevelt DID declare! Why n the world do you think that was a different war?Quote:
Wrong war . Lend Lease began in March 1941 10 months before Pearl Harbor and it was to aid England and Russia to beat Germany ... That was the war Roosevelt was determined to enter
Let me get this straight. You're now objecting to American blood being spilled in WW2? I trust you're just getting carried away in the heat of a discussion. Don't worry, we all do it from time to time.Quote:
What they both have in common was that they saw American material aid will eventually lead to American blood being spilt
Wow, you really are cynical today. Did you have your raw meat this morning?Quote:
And he has swamp critter Yertle saying that giving away American monopoly bucks to Ukraine is America's # 1 priority . I wonder what is his cut . He already sold out to the Chinese so it doesn't surprise me that he thinks American money is better spent in Ukraine than dealing with the scores of domestic issues that needs to be addressed
Why? Because the nation of which you are a citizen, has opted to support democracy...
When did my country right or wrong become a lefty mantra ?
Who's pretending? The guy's a hero in every freedom-loving country on the planet.
Wait until those "freedom loving nations have to choose between heating their homes and supporting the facade of Ukraine democracy At least Rishi Sunak in England is doing an audit of their support for Ukraine.
We keep on pouring resources there with no accountability . We are even going to be sending Patriot systems that Clueless said would not happen . Those systems require hundreds of trained operators . You think no US personnel won't be on the ground assisting in operation of the complex system ? This is Vietnam all over again . Advisors were followed by a fake provocation that justified US troops involvement .
So your answer is, do nothing?
at a minimum would I like to have an honest national debate . We don't even gety news about the war that is isn't filtered by the government . When was the last time there was a war where we don't even get reporting by imbedded journalist . You don't find it strange that all the news out of Ukraine supports Zelinski's and the official narrative ? No Ukraine abuses ;even from the Azov Ukrainians who are committing atrocities all over the Donbas ?
Mueller cited ten obstruction of justice crimes,
and the life long friend and collogue of Comeny found no proof of Russian collusion The Russian collusion narrative has been totally debunked .
On December 8, that was the war Roosevelt DID declare! Why n the world do you think that was a different war?
The facts are that Roosevelt began Lend Lease to help England and Russia their war against Germany .
December 7 1941 we were attacked by JAPAN
December 8 Roosevelt declared war against JAPAN
December 11 war against Germany and Italy was declared .
We were not attacked by them .
Roosevelt decided long before December 1941 that the US would enter the war against Germany . He began the prep for it with Lend Lease March 1941 effectively ending the US policy of neutrality . He waited for the right moment to declare the war . But the issues was decided long before the US declared war .
He's especially popular in the countries who want to appear virtuous by supporting the United States using money it does not have to support Zelensky in a manner those "freedom-loving" countries have no intention of even coming close to matching.Quote:
The guy's a hero in every freedom-loving country on the planet.
My post deleted - my error. Your original was loaded with those internet symbols so it was less than legible. It came out legible when I clicked reply. I'll try again.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
(Later - still illegible when answering. Trying something else)
Last month General Miley chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff warned that a long war in Ukraine was in neither side's interest . No one wins a long war there . He suggested that Ukraine was in a position of strength so now was the time to seize the initiative to begin negotiations to settle the war. He spoke of the tragedy of human suffering when the sides in WWI failed to negotiate a settlement when the war stalemated .
The war is less than a year old and already it has taken a heavy toll on Ukraine .More than 6 million Ukrainians are refugees .There is virtually no Ukraine economy left . The infrastructure destruction is going to lead to even more human tragedy this winter .
Yet Zelensky argues for complete victory that includes pushing Russia completely out of Ukraine . That is not achievably without continued draining of NATOs military capacity and probably direct NATO involvement. Such an escalation is unthinkable and risks world war.
Best scenario I see ,even with massive NATO weaponry ,is Ukraine pushing Russia back to status quo ante which would mean Russia still occupying areas in Eastern Ukraine that are culturally Russian . The Russians in that case would retrench and regroup and bide their time.
Despite setbacks ;Russia is performing as Russia always performs. It gets a bloody nose ;regroups and outlasts it's opponent (the exception being when Russia retreated in Afghanistan right before the end of the Soviet Union) . Eventually General Winter sides with them.
Sanctions designed to cripple their war making capacity have failed . The Russian economy has survived and may have fared better than the West's . Russia has found new markets for it's energy and new partners to supply their war machine .They acheived that before a partial mobilization will deliver fresh troops . There are no more fresh Ukraine troops .Their yourh are being bled without replacement .
A majority of Russians continue to support the Russian government and are not ready to accept defeat. They remember the lawlessness under Yeltsin. They remember that Putin restored order. They consider Crimea and the Russian port at Sevastopol as Russian territory worth fighting for. They do not believe the west's narrative that Russia is a terrorist state. There is no indication of dissent .The Russians have rallied around the flag. They believe that this war is about NATO threatening Russia.
In the West support for the war waivers as winter arrives .Across Europe there are strikes as the population begins to question why they need to make these sacrifices.
There is no military solution.There is only a political solution achieved though a negotiated settlement .The sooner it begins the better. WWI they waited too long; they punished Germany . That led to WWII .
The West needs to rethink the flawed Russian policies it adopted since the fall of the Soviet Union. Russia wanted to be included in the West under Gorbachev and Yeltsin .The West under the guidance of the New World Order rejected that and instead began the process of pushing NATO (who's objective was achieved after the fall of the Soviet Union and should've been dissolved ) to the borders of Russia . That was unacceptable to the Russians as it would've been for us had the circumstances been reversed .
A political solution would be a process of accepting Russia in the West while giving Ukraine credible security assurances .(Not like the Budapest Memorandum that exposed Ukraine to invasion ) . The idea that Russian will be defeated and neutralized is a non-starter . So Zelinsky will need to end his bravado .
Gorbachev’s vision of “a common European home” is the model that should be pursued and adopted . Moscow and Kiev must be persuaded to begin the process. Hoping for Putin's downfall is not a plan.
Will Putin stop once he has conquered Ukraine?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
This reads like it's right out of the Kremlin Propaganda Bureau.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
and yet this is what General Milley recommended .
The general cited the multiyear death toll of 20 million during World War I — caused, he said, by the failure to negotiate an earlier end to the war — and went on to suggest that it would be better for the war in Ukraine to end soon in negotiation rather than continue on indefinitely.
“There has to be a mutual recognition that military victory is probably — in the true sense of the word — is maybe not achievable through military means, and therefore you have to turn to other means,”
War Industry Looks Forward to “Multiyear Authority” in Ukraine (theintercept.com)
Gen. Mark Milley: U.S. will continue to supply Ukraine with the equipment to defeat Russia (cnbc.com)
The West needs to rethink the flawed Russian policies it adopted since the fall of the Soviet Union. Russia wanted to be included in the West under Gorbachev and Yeltsin .
This reads like it's right out of the Kremlin Propaganda Bureau.
No ;It is exactly the debate that should've happened after the fall of the Soviet Union instead of declaring victory ;the end of history ,and rubbing Russia's nose in it .
Ex-Nato head says Putin wanted to join alliance early on in his rule | Nato | The Guardian
Opinion | A Fateful Error - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
Opinion | A Fateful Error - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
The above op-ed was by George Kennan . Who is he ? He was the author of America's Cold War policy of containment .
He wrote expanding NATO would be the most fateful error of American policy in the entire post-Cold War era. Such a decision may be expected to inflame the nationalistic, anti-Western and militaristic tendencies in Russian opinion; to have an adverse effect on the development of Russian democracy; to restore the atmosphere of the cold war to East-West relations, and to impel Russian foreign policy in directions decidedly not to our liking … ”
A Patriot battery costs $1 billion each missle costs $4 million They are being sent to Ukraine to target $20,000 Iranian kamikaze drones that have the capability to swarm to their target ...often air defense systems .They need a staff of 90 people to operate them with a half year to a year to effectively train a crew . The one system we are sending won't make a lick of difference in this war .
I wonder how many of the people who support this support of Ukraine would still be in the game if they had to pony up several hundred dollars in additional taxes in order to pay for it. It's amazing what pols can do when money is no consideration.
What blows my mind is the cleanup that will have to be done and then rebuilding.
We agree on that. It will likely be something along the lines of the rebuilding of Germany after the War. And I have a funny feeling of who they think will pay for it.Quote:
What blows my mind is the cleanup that will have to be done and then rebuilding.
A tremendous, heartfelt, humane opportunity for Donald Trump, Elon Musk, et al.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
And you and the Clintons!
Yes!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Great. How much have you sent so far?
Did you know that Samaritan's Purse has set up a hospital already in Ukraine?
Matthew 6:1-4.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I suspect the answer is zero, but I will respect your privacy. But you have to commend the SP people, or at least you certainly should.
So Christian of you....Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
They certainly are bleating it all over the place!Quote:
But you have to commend the SP people, or at least you certainly should.
"Don't should on yourself," Dr. Ellis told us.
Interesting. Some people disrupt their lives and finances to go help others. The woman who has basically done nothing complains.Quote:
They certainly are bleating it all over the place!
"So Christian of you..."
I think those who profit from it should be more than happy to contribute to the rebuilding . The Biden crime family and Yertle and his wife Elaine Chou come immediately to mind.Quote:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jlisenbe https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom...post-right.png
And I have a funny feeling of who they think will pay for it.
A tremendous, heartfelt, humane opportunity for Donald Trump, Elon Musk, et al.
But you know the game plan .We will be told that a 21st century Marshall plan is the right thing to do . Make sure the Big guy gets 10% . Wonder how Zelinsky will launder his share now that SBF is out of business ?
https://welovetrump.com/wp-content/u...-of-Fraud.webp
How about my country is RIGHT?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
As far as a lefty mantra, that's a common meme among the right-wing. As an independent, I support the truth proven by facts such as videos, audios, documents, emails, eyewitnesses, etc. When those truths criticize the Republicans, the right immediately denounces the facts as "lefty". To the right-wing, the center is the left.
No fight against tyranny is without suffering. The brave do not count the cost, they do their duty. The cowards sell out.Quote:
Wait until those "freedom loving nations have to choose between heating their homes and supporting the facade of Ukraine democracy At least Rishi Sunak in England is doing an audit of their support for Ukraine.
Thank God Biden is able to react to changing circumstances. He is proving to be an excellent wartime leader.Quote:
We keep on pouring resources there with no accountability . We are even going to be sending Patriot systems that Clueless said would not happen
They're being trained.Quote:
Those systems require hundreds of trained operators
Absurd! There s no provocation - unless you mean the dastardly invasion by Russia, a day that will live in infamy.Quote:
This is Vietnam all over again . Advisors were followed by a fake provocation that justified US troops involvement .
Fine with me.Quote:
I would like to have an honest national debate .
The accountability is in the results - from an anticipated three-day walk-over by the super-power Russia, the war has lasted over 300 days due to the fighting spirit of the Ukranians, morally and materially supported by the entire free world. Howz that for accountability?Quote:
We keep on pouring resources there with no accountability
Ridiculous. The war is covered daily with media right in the thick of it in Ukraine. How you can make such a comment is beyond me.Quote:
We don't even gety news about the war that is isn't filtered by the government
On-scene journalists are better then imbedded journalists. You just complained about government filters - who is more likely to be filtered, free-wheeling or imbedded? Look before you leap.Quote:
When was the last time there was a war where we don't even get reporting by imbedded journalist
Not in the least. The news is all backed up by various correspondents from different media sources.Quote:
You don't find it strange that all the news out of Ukraine supports Zelinski's and the official narrative
You mean the local white supremacist/neo-nazis just like we have in this country? Most Ukranians like most Americans denounce these groups. In any case, how does that excuse the Russian invasion?Quote:
No Ukraine abuses ;even from the Azov Ukrainians
Mueller specifically noted no Russian collusion. The Repub right continues to obsess over the issue when it has long been discarded. Mueller found Russian INTERFERENCE, and Trump crimes.Quote:
fm Athos
Mueller cited ten obstruction of justice crimes,
fm Tomder
The Russian collusion narrative has been totally debunked .
I see no reports from the ground at all. I see plenty of reports that quote Ukrainian Ministry of Defense provided information.
Our country is just swooning over Zelinsky the new object of virtue..... and as you know American's love to virtue signal. Oh they all had a collective orgasm when he walked into Congress in a Fidel Castro costume. I'm surprised he did not put on Che Guevera hat .That could've gotten him the promise of nuclear tipped rockets from our arsenal . Take a picture with him .....the photo may end up in the next issue of Vogue.Quote:
How about my country is RIGHT?
This is nothing more than a resurrection of the liberal dem fantasy that Mueller's two year, many millions of dollars effort had found evidence of Trump working with the Russkies to win the 2016 election. That was the primary goal of the investigation, yet it came up empty. Too bad for liberal dems.Quote:
Mueller found Russian INTERFERENCE, and Trump crimes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
LOL - that's actually pretty funny. You have a future as a cartoonist with PRAVDA, or whatever the current prop-speak sheet is.
US will also be sending JDAM ( Joint Direct Attack Munitions) offensive satellite guided missiles to Ukraine .
Who's sats will guide the missiles and who will do the target selection and acquisition ? Yes the US will be an active participant in the war.
How will the US react when Russia retaliates by sending up a satellite killing rocket?
Tom, what is your view of the possibility of peace negotiations?
Negotiations are always possible . The West will soon demand a negotiated settlement before next winter . Time is running out for both sides to achieve their goals by combat
Both sides would have to agree that their war aims are not achievable . Ukraine's goals of removing Russia from Ukraine is not possible . Russia's war aims of creating a land bridge from Russia to Crimea does not appear to be obtainable .A complete Russia defeat is not possible or even necessarily desirable.... as Henry Kissinger explains (now there is a stooge of the Kremlin )
Kissinger warns that if Russia is dissolved (the stated aim of the West), it would create a dangerous power vacuum as the larger powers in the region (India, China) rush in to claim parts of Russian territory for themselves, upsetting the global structure created following WWII.
.How to avoid another world war | The SpectatorQuote:
Does the world today find itself at a comparable turning point in Ukraine as winter imposes a pause on large-scale military operations there? I have repeatedly expressed my support for the allied military effort to thwart Russia’s aggression in Ukraine. But the time is approaching to build on the strategic changes which have already been accomplished and to integrate them into a new structure towards achieving peace through negotiation.
As I have stated before ;the post WWII order was already being frayed by the collapse of the Soviet Union. The US should've moved to incorporate Russia into a larger European community where they would not be threatened by the expansion of NATO towards the edge of their border .
Instead old cold warriors did not die or fade away. They just looked for more missions for NATO through expansion of NATO and by a NATO cover proxy for America's wars
Kissinger proposed international intermediary supervision of a division of Ukraine by holding referendums by the people in East and South Ukraine .
If the pre-war dividing line between Ukraine and Russia cannot be achieved by combat or by negotiation, recourse to the principle of self-determination could be explored. Internationally supervised referendums concerning self-determination could be applied to particularly divisive territories which have changed hands repeatedly over the centuries.The goal of a peace process would be twofold: to confirm the freedom of Ukraine and to define a new international structure, especially for Central and Eastern Europe. Eventually Russia should find a place in such an order.
That gets us another East/West Germany, North/South Korea and North/South Vietnam. Kissinger was the one who carried out Nixon's plan to sabotage the Paris Peace Talks so Nixon could run on a platform of ending the war. This "strategy" caused the death of thousands of American soldiers.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
So which American Giant Corp will rebuild Ukraine when the war ends and the dust settles ? None other than BlackRock .Ukraine is paying the company with American taxpayer money to come up with a "road map" to reconstruction.
BlackRock Financial Markets Advisory to advise Ministry of Economy of Ukraine
The September meeting laid the groundwork for the Ukrainian government’s growing cooperation with BlackRock.
Last month, BlackRock announced that it had agreed to a “memorandum of understanding” with Ukraine’s Ministry of Economy.
The Nov. 10 agreement included plans for “establishing a roadmap for the investment framework’s implementation, including identifying design choices for the envisioned setup, structure, mandate and governance.”
Volodymyr, BlackRock's Larry Fink agree to help rebuild Ukraine (nypost.com)
Estimated cost of rebuilding is $349 billion . But you know ;with cost overruns and all ...............................
This was the real reason for Zelinsky's junket to DC .
The $13 billion US monopoly bucks already provided to Ukraine this year for budgetary support is but a small down payment .
When was Blackrock last in the news ? That would be in the spring of this year when the WSJ reported that they were distorting the US housing market artificially inflation it by buying $6 billion worth ot single family and rental homes.
Blackstone Bets $6 Billion on Buying and Renting Homes - WSJ
Higher housing costs benefit the properties already owned by BlackRock and the artificially high prices crowd out working families, leaving only the wealthy or investment firms with massive amounts of capital at their disposal as the only players left in the market.
BlackRock gets paid by U.S. taxpayers via the Ukrainian government to devise a reconstruction plan that ensures the success of their future investments in Ukraine, made from money gained by making American housing unaffordable.
So the U.S., which cannot pay its own bills, will now undertake to pay the bills for rebuilding another country?Quote:
So which American Giant Corp will rebuild Ukraine when the war ends and the dust settles ?
You keep saying, "paid by U.S. taxpayers". I do get the point, but I wish that was actually true. If the taxpayers actually had to pay for all this stuff, then the federal budget would look wildly different, would be much smaller, and the country would be much better off.
We are responsible for the monopoly money in the market . We are paying immediately with our shrinking purchase power through the inflation created by having these extras bucks in circulation. Eventually the piper has to be paid .
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