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recent days have seen Hamas rain rockets on Israel and Israel retaliates raining destruction on Gaza and why, it seems Israeli actions in ejecting Palestinians from properties in east Jerusalem are at the root of the violence, and yet were these people actually Palestinians. It seems any excuse is reason to rain rockets on Israel and you have to ask where did these rockets come from? Surely Palestinians don't possess arms factories
Will America defend Israel or the Palestinians?
Will Australia?Quote:
Will America defend Israel or the Palestinians?
This is what happens when the Administration favors the messianic homicidal butchers of Iran, and uses the failed narrative that there can be no solution in the ME without the Palestinians . Quid's regime is back to that emperor and Bush model that there has to be a 2 state solution and that the Palestinians should have a place at the table. Well yes they should when they have responsible leadership and not the kleptocratic pseudo-elected for life Abbas .
New word of the week: kleptocratic. Had to look that one up. Well done!
Actually not our fight but we have always had good relations with IsraelQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Thank goodness, then, that we are, and have been willing for decades to make it our fight. You can make a great argument that if not for the United States, Israel would not have survived.
I think they are demonstrating a will to survive right now, they are taking the fight to Hamas, which afterall is just an Iranian proxy. Interesting this should flare up when there are negotiations with Iran
I admire Israel far more than any other nation. It is an area of concern that Biden and Kerry will throw them out the door. Say what you want about Trump, but Israel loved him and with good reason.
Terror is a tried and true negotiating tactic affecting the wet noodle spine leaders the most .Quote:
Interesting this should flare up when there are negotiations with Iran
Yes the war on terror had the wrong target from the Israeli point of view
You know I have to ask again, where did the Palestinians in Gaza get 3,000 rockets?
https://www.news.com.au/world/middle...a363c350fe788d
If Gaza is closed off and the borders controlled then serious questions must be asked about Egyptian involvement in the current circumstances
The rockets have 'made in Iran 'written all over them . They get smuggled in from Sudan through Sinai . Yes Egypt does not have total control of Sinai .
For a while that route was shut off due to the Abraham Accords . Then Quid became President .Although remaining a party to the Abraham Accords and expanding them would probably win Quid the Nobel Peace Prize, it would put him in the partisan doghouse for the crime of failing to kill something Trump created..
He restored the cash payment of $ 235 million to the Palestinians last month . Now they had the cash and the smuggling route reopened .
The bulk of the funds went to the UN for its humanitarian work providing food and medicine to Palestinians - funds which Trump had refused to release to the UN.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
uh yeah . Money becomes fungible . I wouldn't give a dime to the carelessly bloated mismanaged corrupt and unaccountable Unrwa It is one of the U.N.'s most perverse, destructive creations. In Gaza it essentially functions as Hamas's bankroll .Hamas siphons aid money for terrorism funding by placing it's operatives on Unrwa payroll. Of it's 30,000 employees ,most are Palestinian . It is basically the payroll for Hamas .That frees up other money they get for the purpose of buying rockets and digging tunnels into Israel.
That's your opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Maybe they wouldn't have to buy rockets if the Israelis didn't evict the Palestinians from their own property in East Jerusalem as they did the past week.Quote:
frees up other money they get for the purpose of buying rockets and digging tunnels into Israel.
not opinion . It is a mutual relationship . There is no Unrwa without a "refugee " issue. There is zero incentive for them to solve the issue . It keeps 30,000 people employed ....mostly Palestinians beholden to Hamas .
Are you trying to justify what is basically an attack with heavy weapons on a civilian population because of a few evictions. It is not a proportional responseQuote:
Originally Posted by Athos
No, the Israeli response initiated the rioting and fighting because the Palestinians were being beaten by the Israeli police. The Israeli response with their jet aircrarft destroying civilian centers in Gaza including dozens of children wasn't proportional either.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
What do you think is proportional to the launching of 3,000 rockets? You try to justify the Palestinian violence. I think the Israeli conquered the West Bank and Gaza and gave it back to the Palestinians who are never satisfied, and never will be satisfied. It is a pattern repeated all over the world. A conquered people never accepts the conquerer. Each time the arabs took on Israel they lost more territory and still they don't get it. I don't think they have much between the ears
Of course they're not satisfied. Would you be satisfied if someone came into your home and kicked you out?Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
They get that their homeland was taken by Israel.Quote:
Each time the arabs took on Israel they lost more territory and still they don't get it.
I don't think you do either.Quote:
I don't think they have much between the ears
My suggestion would be for Hamas the international criminals and terrorists to stop establishing HQs in civilian areas and to stop storing rockets and weapons in schools ,hospitals and places of worship .Quote:
The Israeli response with their jet aircrarft destroying civilian centers in Gaza including dozens of children wasn't proportional either.
What would the US response be to 3,000 rockets being fired across the border . OH wait . we have Quid in office ...... never mindQuote:
What do you think is proportional to the launching of 3,000 rockets?
He would put KH in charge of our response. After all, she's the southern border czar now. Hasn't held a press conference in nearly two months, but she's the one in charge. How much confidence does that give you?
What would the US response be if another country came to the US and began evicting US citizens from their own land?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Are the Palestinians the descendants of the Canaanites that the OT God ordered the Israelites to kill and then claim their land, identified as the "Promised Land"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Athos
As I recall the US kept the territory it conquered in MexicoQuote:
Originally Posted by Athos
If this is a biblical discussion I am gone. None of the stuff you hear about 'evictions ' is fact . Btw . Since when did Hamas need any reason to start raining rockets on Israel ? Rockets have been fired into Israel from Gaza ,and Lebanon repeatedly since at least 2000. It is rare that Israel responds beyond interception with the Iron Dome .
The Sheikh Jarrah properties is a private dispute that was settled by the Israeli courts . The Jewish complainants have had their claim confirmed in court . The truth is that Israeli courts have gone out of their way to avoid evicting the Palestinian squatters who haven’t paid rent for 50 years . The properties in question were purchased in !875 ;long before the Israeli state existed . The truth was that when Israel went independent ,the Jordanians invaded the new state ;occupied half of Jerusalem and evicted legitimate Jewish land owners . Jordan then transferred some of the property titles to Arabs and let other properties be occupied
Israel then beat Jordan in the 1967 war , Still the Israelis honored the transferred titles .
These properties are NOT at issue.
The issue is with properties that were occupied by Palestinians but were NOT transferred away from Jewish ownership . In those cases the Israeli courts honor the title of the Jewish owners despite the fact that Palestinians have unlawfully occupied these properties . These are the properties that have had evictions .
I was just wondering if this hatred goes back millennia, to Old Testament times and even before. What groups of people have moved into and maybe been forced out of this area, and why? I then found an interesting article in Britannica:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
https://www.britannica.com/place/Can...on-Middle-East
No the Palestinians are Arabs, descendants of Ismail. Until the seventeenth and eighteenth century, Palestinine was a sparcely populated backwater of the Ottoman empire. The Canaanites were not Arabs, nor are they Philistines, the only ancient race that had claim on Gaza. Like the current Jewish occupants they are all immigrants at one time or another. The argument the God gave the land to the Jews is mote, the Jews didn't live up to the promise and were expelled by the Persians and the RomansQuote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
And after 1900 years, they got the land back. Only time in history any country was reconstituted after that length of time. The amazing aspect was that the Jews maintained their ethnic identity for all of those centuries.
Yes but that is a matter of religion as much as race, the jews were vilified for centuries and therefore kept close in their own communities
That was the Vietnam of the 19th century. Only difference the US won. Even Lincoln opposed the War with Mexico. Two wrongs don't make a right.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Your "sparsely populated backwater" is somebody else's home.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Territorial claims are tricky in a region where land has changed hands so many times .Quote:
I was just wondering if this hatred goes back millennia, to Old Testament times and even before.
The History of the Middle East: Every Year - YouTube
The modern Israel -Palestinian conflict dates back to the end of WW I when the Ottoman Empire was carved up and the territory was part of the 'British Mandate ' . During the war ,Lord Balfour the Brit foreign minister promised the Jews a homeland in the territory in return for support of the Allies cause . Concurrently the Arabs were promised independence in return for a revolt against the Ottomans .
Many countries had what amounted to national religions. Only one stayed distinct for 1900 years.Quote:
Yes but that is a matter of religion as much as race, the jews were vilified for centuries and therefore kept close in their own communities
The whole region is beset by all kind of little splinter groups and terrorist cells dedicated to fighting somebody for some reason or another. This is just another one of them and the Palestinians are caught between these groups and the Israelis who dominate in the name of their own security just like every other country who went to kick somebody's butt that they saw impeding their sovereignty and security and rights...or PURITY.
The British High Commissioner in Egypt (McMahon), The Sykes-Picot Agreement, and the Balfour Declaration. All three, made around the same time, promised different results after WW1 in Palestine for Arabs and Jews.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Why did the Jewish position take precedence over the Arab position?
It would not have needed to had it not been for Hitler's final solution and WWII. Those events gave new urgency to reestablishing a homeland for the Jews and why not a sparcely populated region of the ME and traditional home of the Jews? when the Arabs were given Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Arabia. You must not view the events in the microcosm of Palestine as the Palestinians want you to do. Jordan was established to be the homeland of the Palestinians but their hatred of the Jews led to war which they lost and they lost territory which remains part of the dispute today. The Palestinians want it all, they have never had any intention of sharingQuote:
Originally Posted by Athos
It's amazing how the anti-Semites go on and on about the Jews. They occupy less than 1% of the land in the Middle East. It is land that was largely desolate before they got there and developed it. The Arab nations have expressed no great desire to accept the displaced Palestinians. They are, in truth, more welcome in Israel than in Arab countries. Israel is the one country in the ME genuinely committed to democracy and human rights.
Jordan has a large population of Palestinians and before the six day war had an even larger population. By not giving Israel proper defensible borders the UN set it up to fail. The Israelis showed proper resolve and deserve to stay and defend themselves against this irrational attack and the irrational demands of the Palestinians.
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