Ask Me Help Desk

Ask Me Help Desk (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/forum.php)
-   Current Events (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=486)
-   -   Why work when the government will give you freebees for not working ? (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=848114)

  • May 8, 2021, 05:09 AM
    tomder55
    Why work when the government will give you freebees for not working ?
    "overly generous jobless benefits causing worker shortage" theory now gaining momentum.

    Jobs report April 2021: Hiring boom goes bust (cnbc.com)
    Many people choosing to stay on unemployment rather than work, business owners and analysts say | KOB 4

    This continues a trend I noticed when I was doing the hiring at the end of last year . There are plenty of jobs . Yet it was very difficult to hire new employees and to retain them
    Quid did a Snoopy dance because he believes this news validates his push for more socialistic interventions .
  • May 8, 2021, 05:41 AM
    paraclete
    Tom you know that the long term jobless are not fit for work, so why not help them out, it is good for the economy, they spend every penny they get. You are looking for new employees, try looking for old ones, people with a little life history and a little big of nouce, not these damn millennials who know nothing
  • May 8, 2021, 07:04 AM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    he believes this news validates his push for more socialistic interventions .

    What are the "socialistic" interventions?
  • May 8, 2021, 07:55 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    the long term jobless are not fit for work, so why not help them out,
    Why not take money from working Americans and give it to the lazy? You're really asking that? When the pantry becomes empty, it's amazing how quickly those "not fit for work" can get themselves ready. Anyone who is mentally/physically equipped to work should be expected to get off his/her rear end and get after it. But if they don't want to, they won't get a penny from other Americans who work hard and pay the bills.
  • May 8, 2021, 09:08 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    other Americans who work hard and pay the bills.

    Those "lazy" people are using that money to pay their bills and buy necessities.
  • May 8, 2021, 10:48 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Those "lazy" people are using that money to pay their bills and buy necessities.
    And go to the Casinos and make a down payment on a car and any other number of things people do with money they don't really need. Most of the stim money checks went to people like the two of us who did not at all need it. Vote buying.

    But even at that, if you want to pay your bills and buy necessities, GET A JOB.
  • May 8, 2021, 11:13 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Most of the stim money checks went to people like the two of us who did not at all need it. Vote buying.

    I gave mine to people who needed it for home and car repairs. What did you spend yours on?
  • May 8, 2021, 12:25 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    I gave mine to people who needed it for home and car repairs.
    Why do you feel so compelled to publicly pat yourself on the back?

    We put it in the bank. It is completely stupid idea to send out money the government does not have to people who, in most cases, do not need it.
  • May 8, 2021, 02:00 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Why do you feel so compelled to publicly pat yourself on the back?

    All that money I have, ya know, all that wealth -- gotta earn my way into heaven, ya know. And I'm daring you to do the same, to help others who desperately need the help.

    Quote:

    send out money the government does not have to people who, in most cases, do not need it.
    You're full of it. The ones I know definitely do. Around here, retail stores have closed permanently, as have restaurants, motels, small businesses of various kinds. Thus, employees have been let go and they don't have the experience/skill set necessary for other jobs that might be available.
  • May 8, 2021, 03:30 PM
    jlisenbe
    If I’m full of anything it’s some knowledge of this topic. You should try it. We had to borrow or print all of this money. If we had sent it to the unemployed then that would be fine. Instead it was primarily sent to people like the two of us who don’t need it.
  • May 8, 2021, 03:41 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    If I’m full of anything it’s some knowledge of this topic.

    What is your source?
    Quote:

    We had to borrow or print all of this money. If we had sent it to the unemployed then that would be fine. Instead it was primarily sent to people like the two of us who don’t need it.
    Sooooo, my unemployed in-law niece in Iowa who has four little kids shouldn't have gotten hefty stimulus checks? Or my unemployed nephew in Colorado shouldn't have gotten any? Or my unemployed in-law nieces in Florida....
  • May 8, 2021, 05:01 PM
    jlisenbe
    My source? How's this for you?
    Quote:

    You are ineligible for stimulus payment if you earn more than the income limit. That applies to anyone whose reported adjusted gross income for tax years 2018 or 2019 was at least:

    • $99,000 for individuals and married couples filing separately
    • $136,500 for heads of household
    • $198,000 for married couples filing jointly

    Now I'm going to go WWAAAAYYYYYYY out on a limb here and say that married couples, for instance, making 80 or 100 or 125 thou a year do not NEED a 2400 dollar stim check. Pols, however, need our votes, so they stupidly send the checks out to them, and the non-thinkers cheer them as being full of compassion. Completely stupid.

    https://www.thebalance.com/who-is-in...g%20separately

    And then there is YOUR source. You mentioned the UNEMPLOYED. Aren't those the very people I said above who SHOULD get stim checks?

    But that's OK. You just go right on defending the need for married couples making 150 thou a year to get a stim check from the feds funded completely by borrowed money. I can only guess that makes perfect sense to you.
  • May 8, 2021, 05:15 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    But that's OK. You just go right on defending the need for married couples making 150 thou a year to get a stim check from the feds funded completely by borrowed money. I can only guess that makes perfect sense to you.

    I don't know any married couples who make that much money. And any that do have mostly likely helped out struggling friends, neighbors, and/or family members. Plus, most of my friends who work have had their hours cut, have been laid off, or the business has folded.
  • May 8, 2021, 05:23 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    I don't know any married couples who make that much money.
    Do you suppose that it just might be possible that they are out there and you don't know them?

    According to you, you made that much last year. Remember saying that when you said you voted to raise taxes on yourself in Illinois? Remember?
  • May 8, 2021, 05:38 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Do you suppose that it just might be possible that they are out there and you don't know them?

    They're all in Mississippi.
    Quote:

    According to you, you made that much last year. Remember saying that when you said you voted to raise taxes on yourself in Illinois? Remember?
    No, I did NOT make/earn that money. My beloved mother and son died. I was very surprised I had been named a beneficiary in their wills. I'd give it back in a nanosecond if I could have both alive and in my life.
  • May 8, 2021, 06:16 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    What are the "socialistic" interventions?
    You can deny it is socialism But the reality is that there is no significant difference between progressive "reform " and socialism . The only real difference is that today's socialist want to have capitalist around enough to pay for their agenda. By all appearances private ownership of the means of production is preserved . But through mounting interventions in the economy, the government’s sway over business grows to the point where it is the state that ultimately steers and dictates production, and thus becomes the de facto owner of the means of production.
  • May 8, 2021, 07:18 PM
    paraclete
    You know the one thing that is lacking in this post is compassion. Tom, I am surprised at your attitude. Not all unemployed are shiftless layabout dead beats, but this is what your post implies. many lack the skills for todays economy, this is a failure, not of their initiative, but of your Lasse Faire education system. Education for profit, educating those who can afford it
  • May 8, 2021, 07:57 PM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    But through mounting interventions in the economy

    My question, still not answered, is what are those interventions?

    This is the third time I have asked you about "socialism", and this us the third time you have not answered my question.
  • May 8, 2021, 08:11 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    many lack the skills for todays economy, this is a failure, not of their initiative, but of your Lasse Faire education system. Education for profit, educating those who can afford it

    That's my beef, too. We should spend a lot more time and energy teaching life skills and give vocational guidance, even to middleschoolers and, of course, to older students. Actually, even younger students can learn what they're good at doing and be taught new skills. College too often is a bunch of useless courses. I know many of MY college courses were useless (teacher training -- but no real training, just the history of this or that, ethics, etc., not much practical ... although some of that knowledge might help me win on "Jeopardy"...).
  • May 8, 2021, 08:42 PM
    talaniman
    Rich guys didn't need tax cuts but they got them and why is it that when you help out the poor or main street during a CRISIS it becomes socialism?
  • May 8, 2021, 09:39 PM
    paraclete
    Becuase Tal, that is what it is, to make a dependent population, not saying the help isn't necessary but this is what socialism does, makes the population dependent on government, on centralised authority. The real problem is over population in a mechanised, digital world.
  • May 9, 2021, 03:07 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    My question, still not answered, is what are those interventions?

    This is the third time I have asked you about "socialism", and this us the third time you have not answered my question.
    I answer and you pretend I don't . Mounting interventions is trillions in government spending on the economy )6 trillion to date and counting ). Mounting interventions is the bureaucratic regulatory state that tells us and business how to conduct every aspect of our lives Clete's comment above is right on socialism makes people dependent on the government.....cradle to grave government , Where Clete is wrong in in his strawman telling me that because I object to a program where it is more advantageous for someone not to work than to rejoin the work force that I oppose all unemployment assistance .
  • May 9, 2021, 04:12 AM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    I answer and you pretend I don't .

    No pretending at all. In fact, the first time I asked you, you refused in your own words to answer because you thought it was a trick. (or a trap).

    Quote:

    Mounting interventions is trillions in government spending on the economy )6 trillion to date and counting
    Increasing the national debt occurs under whatever administration is in power. Are both parties therefore "socialistic"? In any case, I'm asking about specifics, not generalities.

    Quote:

    Mounting interventions is the bureaucratic regulatory state that tells us and business how to conduct every aspect of our lives
    This is crazy talk. Government is not telling us how to conduct "every aspect of our lives".

    Quote:

    Clete's comment above is right on socialism makes people dependent on the government.....cradle to grave government
    Exactly where is this cradle to grave socialism in the USA? Examples, please.

    Quote:

    Where Clete is wrong ..... telling me that because I object to a program where it is more advantageous for someone not to work than to rejoin the work force that I oppose all unemployment assistance .
    Does this mean unemployment insurance is not socialism?
  • May 9, 2021, 06:29 AM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Athos View Post



    Does this mean unemployment insurance is not socialism?

    It is not actually insurance, it is government welfare, and welfare is a form of socialism
  • May 9, 2021, 10:07 AM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    It is not actually insurance, it is government welfare, and welfare is a form of socialism

    Tomder again is notable for his absence in replying re socialism. I can't assume paraclete speaks for Tom. Presumably, he would eliminate unemployment insurance for which premiums are paid. He does not say what he would replace it with, if anything, nor does he address the other points in my post to Tomder.

    In the US, there is a clause in the Constitution that states "provide for the general welfare". It is unclear why Paraclete considers welfare to be a dirty word.
  • May 9, 2021, 11:07 AM
    talaniman
    Conservatives think welfare is a dirty word, until they need it, or if it's CORPORATE welfare, or legalized stealing. Socialism is just a buzz word for the right to brand everybody but them as being a bad thing and only their rights matter. Yep the right to bear arms is sacred but the right to vote is on their terms.

    Freedom for some and not others which in truth started when THEY got to the new land.
  • May 9, 2021, 04:11 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    nor does he address the other points in my post to Tomder.

    In the US, there is a clause in the Constitution that states "provide for the general welfare". It is unclear why Paraclete considers welfare to be a dirty word.

    I don't consider welfare a dirty word. I'm not going tp go point to point with you, I addressed the misconception that unemployment insurance is insurance, but call it what it is, a government handout to help you meet difficult circumstance. However, government payment to an individual in any form is socialism, and I cannot see why you run away from it as if it is a bad thing, as you say "provide for the general welfare"
  • May 9, 2021, 05:22 PM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    I'm not going tp go point to point with you,

    I notice you never do. Something pops into your head and you post it without thinking. Are all Aussies like that, or just you?

    Quote:

    I addressed the misconception that unemployment insurance is insurance
    All employees are charged a premium for the insurance. The money goes into an insurance pot paid out when necessary. When paid out, the employer gets a surcharge according to the amount paid. That's called insurance. It is not a government handout.

    Quote:

    government payment to an individual in any form is socialism
    That's ridiculous. Are death benefits paid to a soldier's survivor socialism? Salaries to police and firemen? Elected officials? Excellent example of your popping off whatever enters your head.

    Quote:

    and I cannot see why you run away from it as if it is a bad thing, as you say "provide for the general welfare"
    I have no idea what this means, and I don't expect you to clarify it.
  • May 9, 2021, 05:44 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    All employees are charged a premium for the insurance. The money goes into an insurance pot paid out when necessary. When paid out, the employer gets a surcharge according to the amount paid. That's called insurance. It is not a government handout.
    That is true in theory, and it seems to be true in good economic times. But when the economy hits a serious downturn, the feds end up having to subsidize the fund, and never more dramatically than now when it is clearly not bringing in anything close to enough money. It's now just another "borrow, print and spend" federal fiasco.

    Quote:

    government payment to an individual in any form is socialism
    I'd have to agree with Athos in his response. Socialism is more an economic model than it is a government model.

    The provision to provide for "the general welfare" in the Constitution was historically considered to be a provision to provide for highways, police, and so forth which lifts the welfare of everyone. It is only in the past century or so that pols figured out how to buy votes by sending out payments funded by taxes lifted from working people. Now, even worse, they don't even bother to fund this vote buying with taxes.
  • May 9, 2021, 06:00 PM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    It's now just another "borrow, print and spend" federal fiasco.

    Providing the means to survive for families - men, woman and children - is a "federal fiasco"?

    Quote:

    The provision to provide for "the general welfare" in the Constitution was historically considered to be a provision to provide for highways, police, and so forth which lifts the welfare of everyone. It is only in the past century or so that pols figured out how to buy votes by sending out payments funded by taxes lifted from working people.
    Yes, the interpretation of the clause changed over the years. It came closer to the plain meaning of the original words. As to the cynical notion that it is only for buying votes, would you therefore rescind social security?
  • May 9, 2021, 06:34 PM
    jlisenbe
    I am opposed to expanding the federal debt to levels which have the potential to sink us.

    I would make SS a voluntary program. Sadly it is too late for that. At least it is, for the present, self funding.
  • May 9, 2021, 06:43 PM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I am opposed to expanding the federal debt to levels which have the potential to sink us.

    What level is that?

    Quote:

    I would make SS a voluntary program.
    That would condemn millions to poverty in their old age.
  • May 9, 2021, 07:03 PM
    jlisenbe
    We are currently approaching a national debt of about 100,000 dollars for every man, woman, and child in America. That strikes me as a titanically stupid idea. Interest rates will some day rise again, and we are going to be in serious trouble.

    Quote:

    That would condemn millions to poverty in their old age.
    How?
  • May 9, 2021, 07:22 PM
    waltero
    Quote:

    not these damn millennials who know nothing
    We call them professional students. Anybody who wants to work, need just show up, hired on the spot!
  • May 9, 2021, 07:25 PM
    Wondergirl
    Athos said: That would condemn millions to poverty in their old age.

    JL said: How?

    WG says: C'mon, think about it. Where does SS come from? And why? And how?
  • May 9, 2021, 07:49 PM
    jlisenbe
    I thought you said we were not to respond to a question with more questions. Well...you just did.
  • May 9, 2021, 07:50 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I thought you said we were not to respond to a question with more questions. Well...you just did.

    You do so I can too. HA!
  • May 9, 2021, 07:53 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Athos said: That would condemn millions to poverty in their old age.

    JL said: How?

    WG says: C'mon, think about it. Where does SS come from? And why? And how?

    SS is failed ponzi scheme, it worked while ever there was a smaller population with lower life expectancy
  • May 9, 2021, 07:59 PM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    SS is failed ponzi scheme, it worked while ever there was a smaller population with lower life expectancy

    Currently, nearly 70 million Americans receive social security benefits. You call that a failure?
  • May 9, 2021, 08:04 PM
    waltero
    The SSA estimates that it made about $7.9 billion worth of improper payments in total during the 2019 fiscal year.

  • All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:48 PM.