Ask Me Help Desk - Youth on the rampage

Youth on the rampage

https://www.news.com.au/national/wes...0bc6e00856f09b

so what is to be done with youth who simply don't play by the rules. All too often such events are staged so it can be filmed, uploaded and go viral, but what is viral is the attitude behind it. How have we failed these youth the left will say, when what is needed is some old fashioned discipline

what I say is let the whallopers at them, some police station discipline instead of been sent home to contemplate their next act of rebellion. This happen in an institution for youth who don't fit in but putting them all together isn't a good idea. Next stop reform school and life of crime

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what I say is let the whallopers at them, some police station discipline instead of been sent home to contemplate their next act of rebellion.

Yup The police used to be good at therapeutic massages for attitude adjustments

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Yup The police used to be good at therapeutic massages for attitude adjustments

No doubt you approve of today's attitude adjustment being a bullet in the back.

That is a sad reflection on what society has become in some places

No doubt you approved of the Capitol police officer shooting an unarmed military vet women point blank for attempting to climb through a window into the Capitol.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

No doubt you approved of the Capitol police officer shooting an unarmed military vet women point blank in the head for attempting to climb through a window into the Capitol.

Absolutely. She was in the vanguard of a crazed group trying to enter a space to kill as many as they could and crashing through windows and doors with murder on their minds. Like any criminal killed by police exercising their lawful duty, she was entirely at fault.

same was true of the incident you describe as "a bullet in the back" . Content is helpful .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

same was true of the incident you describe as "a bullet in the back" . Content is helpful .

I didn't describe any "incident". Of course, it's easy to see I was referring to cops murdering blacks by illegally shooting them down. More than once, it was a bullet in the back as the man was fleeing.

You were referring to Jacob Blake . Shot in back "fleeing " aka brandishing a knife and attempting to kidnap children that were in the car he was entering .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

You were referring to Jacob Blake . Shot in back "fleeing " aka brandishing a knife and attempting to kidnap children that were in the car he was entering .

I was NOT referring to Jacob Blake! How could you possibly know who I was referring to? I was referring in a generic sense to the bad conduct of so many police in the last few years - encouraged by Trump, I might add.

I see you have hijacked the theme which was youth in crisis the so called "broken babies" as a parent who went through ten years of hell with such a child I welcome discussion of the issue which has nothing to do with race

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Originally Posted by paraclete

I welcome discussion of the issue which has nothing to do with race

There can be so very many explanations -- e.g., a physical or mental problem, peer influences, being bullied, an autism spectrum disorder that affects a child's ability to understand spoken instructions, to socialize, and to express themselves and their feelings.

wasn't hijacked . Your second paragraph was what I went with

what I say is let the whallopers at them, some police station discipline instead of been sent home to contemplate their next act of rebellion.

still a lead in to what to do with troubled youth, one solution is harsh discipline, rarely does that seem to work and often makes the problem worse, another solution is to take them out of the home environment, I'm never sure that works either because loss of identity is a negative, even a third is what was tried here; a special school, obviously they learned little in a loose discipline environment. I think you have to abandon the idea of educating them in the traditional way and make them task oriented so success improves self worth

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How could you possibly know who I was referring to?

Perhaps he used the same wondrous power you used when you were able, merely by watching a video, to discern that a crowd of thousands was composed largely of evangelical Christians.

How soon you forget.

deflecting again

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still a lead in to what to do with troubled youth, one solution is harsh discipline, rarely does that seem to work and often makes the problem worse, another solution is to take them out of the home environment, I'm never sure that works either because loss of identity is a negative, even a third is what was tried here; a special school, obviously they learned little in a loose discipline environment. I think you have to abandon the idea of educating them in the traditional way and make them task oriented so success improves self worth

It has to start with healthy families. In my years of schooling, that was the key. It wasn't a guarantee, but it does give the best chance. I have long loved the text that reads, “And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.” The nurture is the affectionate side while the admonition is the discipline side. The hard part is knowing which part to employ. It is difficult.

We have erred in our country in believing that the state can replace the family. It absolutely cannot.

Yes we know this but this isn't a perfect society and parents are far from perfect. When you discipline and they are unresponsive where do you go from there

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When you discipline and they are unresponsive where do you go from there

My experience was that if, if, if I had the parent's cooperation with me as a school principal, then only rarely did that happen. Saying we are all not "perfect" isn't much of a response. We need, as parents, churches, and schools, to become less imperfect and more serious about what we are doing. It's why I frequently mention the out of wedlock birth rate here, a subject about which you seem to have but little interest. It's a devastating statistic that we should all be shocked about. It's part of the reason I mention abortion. We can't advance any real morality with our young people when we are killing them in the womb. Young people have enough sense to see the utter hypocrisy in that.

The biggest mistake I saw parents make is to be too permissive when the children were young, even down to two or three years old. It's those early years when the parents establish their authority. I saw parents allow just about anything on the theory that they are being "cute". Well, give it five or ten more years and it won't be cute anymore, but it can be too late at that point.

But as to your question, once a teen reaches that point, then it's up to the cops and courts. If it was up to me, they would be sent to old fashioned work farms. Put a hoe in his hand for ten hours a day, six days a week, and see if that gets through to him. No brutality, but a good whipping can perform wonders as well. Stick them in the army for three years.

I do hope your child managed to get back on course in life. I know that can be a very tough situation to deal with.

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a good whipping can perform wonders

Yes, the wonders of the child's/teen's attitude becoming more cunning and secretive, greatly resentful, and full of hate.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

still a lead in to what to do with troubled youth, one solution is harsh discipline, rarely does that seem to work and often makes the problem worse, another solution is to take them out of the home environment, I'm never sure that works either because loss of identity is a negative, even a third is what was tried here; a special school, obviously they learned little in a loose discipline environment. I think you have to abandon the idea of educating them in the traditional way and make them task oriented so success improves self worth

Isolate/segregate and plenty of one on one evaluative investigation. For some the very act of grouping with like mindsets is an invitation to bad behavior. A nation founded by emptying the jails should know that.

ah Tal we are as far from our roots as you are, the academics and limp wristed dilettantes have taken over and want to coddle youth

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the academics and limp wristed dilettantes have taken over and want to coddle youth

Pretty much right on.

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Yes, the wonders of the child's/teen's attitude becoming more cunning and secretive, greatly resentful, and full of hate.

Except. of course, that it doesn't turn out that way. It's the permissive, anything is acceptable approach that produces irresponsible, hateful kids.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

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Except. of course, that it doesn't turn out that way. It's the permissive, anything is acceptable approach that produces irresponsible, hateful kids.

Is that what produces hateful kids, I never knew, because in my case it was over discipline

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Is that what produces hateful kids, I never knew, because in my case it was over discipline

It's not easy to find the perfect balance, nor realize the best efforts and intentions may indeed be ineffectual and fail.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

ah Tal we are as far from our roots as you are, the academics and limp wristed dilettantes have taken over and want to coddle youth

Well we must face the fact at least in America the hard core send 'em to jail only leads to more in jail and more jails, so as a deterrent that ain't the best answer either.

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Is that what produces hateful kids, I never knew, because in my case it was over discipline

That's a fair point. Both extremes are harmful. I was trying to make the point (clumsily) that a properly administered whipping is not a negative but a positive.

Ok you first

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

.....properly administered whipping.....

Perfect example of an oxymoron.

agreed

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Perfect example of an oxymoron.

Perfect example of lack of knowledge.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Perfect example of lack of knowledge.

Please enlighten me.

Is the whip tipped with metal balls? Or do you just use leather points? When the blood appears in little droplets, do you continue until it is more of a stream? Do you stop when the bruises appear so the doctor doesn't report you to the police? Or do you just forego any reporting or doctoring at all?

I assume your guide in this matter is the Bible, to go along with the slaughtering and massacres of children.

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Is the whip tipped with metal balls? Or do you just use leather points? When the blood appears in little droplets, do you continue until it is more of a stream? Do you stop when the bruises appear so the doctor doesn't report you to the police? Or do you just forego any reporting or doctoring at all?

Another drama queen on this site.

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I assume your guide in this matter is the Bible,

Actually, it is.

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to go along with the slaughtering and massacres of children.

Hard to imagine how a supporter of abortion like you could make such a statement. How could anyone possibly be more guilty than you?

Probably more productive to hone in on the individuals that behave badly than pass out sticks to beat all the kids with. As I understand the OP then these were not kids but young adults so correct me if I'm wrong, but is it coddling to give them extra professional attention?

Be interesting to see what the background of care was for those youths before they got to the point of what the OP is about.

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posted by Athos
I assume your guide in this matter is the Bible

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Actually, it is.

Well, here's some Bible for you to chew on. "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is already well-known. These are sources that the white evangelicals rely on to support their "properly administered whipping". God is the model for punishment.

"You shall utterly destroy them: the Hittite and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite." (Deuteronomy)

God wanted to make sure everybody in the neighborhood was covered.

"The city shall be doomed by the Lord to destruction, it and all who are in it. Only Rahab the harlot shall live." (Joshua)

Nice touch. God has a soft spot for hookers.

"Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey." (Saul)

God was extra angry that day. “Utterly destroy them”, “do not spare them”, kill, kill, kill.

"The Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." (Genesis)

Finally, God destroys all that he has created because he repents for making a mistake. Can this God be an All-Knowing God? Couldn't he foresee what would happen?

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Hard to imagine how a supporter of abortion like you could make such a statement.

The statement refers to God going along with slaughtering and massacring children. As to my support, I support a woman's right to choose - a distinction beyond your ken.

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How could anyone possibly be more guilty than you?

Maybe your OT God? If he had no problem killing the firstborn, why would he have a problem killing the unborn?

“For I will pass through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast.” (Exodus).

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Well, here's some Bible for you to chew on. "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is already well-known. These are sources that the white evangelicals rely on to support their "properly administered whipping".

Other than your plainly racist reference to white people, as though non-whites cannot be evangelical or spank their children, you are on the right path.

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Finally, God destroys all that he has created because he repents for making a mistake. Can this God be an All-Knowing God? Couldn't he foresee what would happen?

You have made it very clear you don't like the God of the Bible. Why not just move on? At any rate, I have no idea what any of that has to do with corporal punishment.

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Hard to imagine how a supporter of abortion like you could make such a statement.

The statement refers to God going along with slaughtering and massacring children. As to my support, I support a woman's right to choose

Nice try, but that weak answer won't do. There is no greater slaughter and massacre of children taking place than abortion. As to "choice", why wouldn't God simply say He is exercising His choice? If a woman can choose to kill her innocent, unborn child, and you say you support that option, then why can't God choose to kill? Does anyone have any greater authority to do so than God? Why do you exercise such a double standard???

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as though non-whites cannot be evangelical or spank their children, you are on the right path.

NO ONE should spank a child!

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Originally Posted by Athos

Well, here's some Bible for you to chew on. "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is already well-known. These are sources that the white evangelicals rely on to support their "properly administered whipping". God is the model for punishment.

once again your intrepretation is wrong the rod spoken of is the sharp rebuke .

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"You shall utterly destroy them: the Hittite and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite." (Deuteronomy)

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God wanted to make sure everybody in the neighborhood was covered.

"The city shall be doomed by the Lord to destruction, it and all who are in it. Only Rahab the harlot shall live." (Joshua)

Nice touch. God has a soft spot for hookers.

"Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey." (Saul)

God was extra angry that day. “Utterly destroy them”, “do not spare them”, kill, kill, kill.

"The Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." (Genesis)

Finally, God destroys all that he has created because he repents for making a mistake. Can this God be an All-Knowing God? Couldn't he foresee what would happen?

The statement refers to God going along with slaughtering and massacring children. As to my support, I support a woman's right to choose - a distinction beyond your ken.

Maybe your OT God? If he had no problem killing the firstborn, why would he have a problem killing the unborn?

“For I will pass through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast.” (Exodus).

and again I say your intrepretation is wrong these peoples were destroyed because they were Baal worshipers and made human sacrifice so God's judgement rested upon them it speaks nothing of the discipline of youth and that last passage speaks of the judgement of Egypt as they would not let the Israelites go

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once again your intrepretation is wrong the rod spoken of is the sharp rebuke .

There is no reason to believe that it means anything other than corporal punishment. There is also no reason to believe that it means beating a child excessively.

you have your reasons, I have mine

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Originally Posted by paraclete

and again I say your intrepretation is wrong these peoples were destroyed because they were Baal worshipers and made human sacrifice so God's judgement rested upon them it speaks nothing of the discipline of youth and that last passage speaks of the judgement of Egypt as they would not let the Israelites go

The quoted passages follow EXACTLY the words of the Bible. You can't dispute that.

My interpretation has everything to do with the discipline of youth by showing the OT God as a role model for how to punish transgressors including intransigent youth. This is how the white evangelicals (among others) use the Bible as justification for their "properly administered whipping". Those are not my words in bold - they are the words of a white evangelical here on this website.

Your interpretation of the words is the traditional one. I hope you see how far removed from the Gospel of Jesus Christ your interpretation is. Do you honestly believe the murderous God of the OT is the same God as Jesus Christ?