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  • Dec 3, 2020, 08:46 AM
    Athos
    Socialism - Once and For All
    Dedicated to those here who oppose socialism and yet have not the slightest idea what socialism is. When asked, the answers ranged from outright refusal to say, to cliches without supporting detail, to a strange explanation describing capitalism as socialism.

    The following may help.

    The myth of Democrats being Soviet-style or radical socialists is still widely believed. Socialism is against the private ownership of the means of production (capitalism). That is not the position of the Democratic Party, the Democrats in Congress, or of Biden, Harris, or even of Sanders. What almost all Democrats advocate is a capitalist economy with proper regulation of business and social programs to provide healthcare, education, and economic security to their citizens. Not radical stuff at all.


    Of course, in the minds of the far-right all Democrats are far-left radicals and Soviet-style socialists. The Democratic Party is made up of a much broader coalition of political views than the Republican Party. Within the Democratic Party there is a broad range of views on healthcare, gun control, national defense, reproductive rights, education, taxes, etc. - and all those views are openly debated. For example, while all of the Democratic presidential primary candidates advocated healthcare coverage for all, there were differing policies on how to best achieve that. The Republicans had basically one position, repeal Obamacare.


    Diversity of thought on policy began to dwindle (and has all but vanished) in the Republican Party in the 1980s after the Party adopted, without compromise, Reaganomics and the social agenda of the evangelical Christian Right: cut taxes no matter the deficit, deregulate business regardless of consequences, oppose abortion, oppose gay marriage, allow evangelical Christian beliefs preferential treatment above other religions, oppose all gun control, repeal civil rights reforms, and basically erode federal authority so states can roll back reforms in civil rights and equality for minorities in education, housing, and employment.


    The Republican Party has no large counterpart in any other free, democratic, industrialized nation. It is an anomaly in modern politics, stuck in a time warp that conservative parties in other free democracies left in the early to mid twentieth century.
  • Dec 3, 2020, 12:32 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    The myth of Democrats being Soviet-style or radical socialists is still widely believed.
    Interesting that you have to begin, right out of the blocks, by qualifying the terms. It starts out, you said, being a discussion about socialism which only the great you knows anything about, and then transitions into only a certain category of socialism. So you muddy the waters right from the beginning.

    Quote:

    social programs to provide healthcare, education, and economic security to their citizens. Not radical stuff at all.
    Not radical until the time comes to figure out how to pay for all of that. That's when the radical element comes in, which is why it is NEVER discussed by dems. Or for that matter to discuss how it is that one American somehow has a right to another American's money to use to pay for his or her education or hospital care.
  • Dec 3, 2020, 08:29 PM
    paraclete
    You can rail and rant against socialism from within your prism of failing capitalism if you want, because your only argument is OPM, the point that you don't want to pay one penny to advantage anyone else.

    Now if you embraced the idea that you don't need any more aircraft carriers you could afford better health care for your dying masses. It is truly a matter of priorities and the military imperative is not the priority, that just feeds paranoia
  • Dec 3, 2020, 08:39 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Now if you embraced the idea that you don't need any more aircraft carriers you could afford better health care for your dying masses. It is truly a matter of priorities and the military imperative is not the priority, that just feeds paranoia
    I've been very clear about that. I'd like to see us retire a couple of carriers and then tell countries like yours that the military gravy train has been put under a shed. You will now have to pony up and prepare to defend yourselves. We will be allies, but we will not bankrupt ourselves to carry an inappropriate share of the burden.

    But even if we reduce defense spending, we will be nowhere near a balanced budget. We are eventually going to have to face the music on this deal.

    I would much rather exist in our medical care system than yours.

    What you call capitalism I would refer to as free enterprise. It's the greatest economic development of all time and goes hand in glove with the general concept of liberty which socialism tends to limit.
  • Dec 3, 2020, 08:55 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    What you call capitalism I would refer to as free enterprise. It's the greatest economic development of all time and goes hand in glove with the general concept of liberty which socialism tends to limit.

    You don't read and retain my correct definitions, nor do you read and retain Athos' correct definitions.
  • Dec 3, 2020, 10:48 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I've been very clear about that. I'd like to see us retire a couple of carriers and then tell countries like yours that the military gravy train has been put under a shed. You will now have to pony up and prepare to defend yourselves. We will be allies, but we will not bankrupt ourselves to carry an inappropriate share of the burden.

    But even if we reduce defense spending, we will be nowhere near a balanced budget. We are eventually going to have to face the music on this deal.

    I would much rather exist in our medical care system than yours.

    What you call capitalism I would refer to as free enterprise. It's the greatest economic development of all time and goes hand in glove with the general concept of liberty which socialism tends to limit.

    Continue to lie to yourself, you know nothing about our medical system and it certainly is superior to yours because no one has to go without medical care because of cost. No one is bankrupted to obtain medical care here. Capitalism, as you call it, has certain disadvantages, notably that it is based on exploitation..The brand of free enterprise you practise lacks social responsibility

    My country has increased its military expenditure but it all takes time. We are responding to threats generated by your belligerant foreign policy, our size makes us an easy target for your opponents, who you consistently antagonise. Witness the current attitude of China to my nation, they consider us your lapdog and treat us accordingly and why? we echoed your call for a CV19 investigation, we have participated in your "freedom of navigation" exercises, we are your ally and while we share your concerns for the treatment of Tibetians and Yughars, you treat your migrants in the same way. So take your hyprocracy and put it where the light doesn't shine
  • Dec 4, 2020, 04:42 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Now if you embraced the idea that you don't need any more aircraft carriers you could afford better health care for your dying masses
    I agree we do not need any more aircraft carriers . But the cost of a Ford class super carrier is piss in the ocean compared to the costs of socialized healthcare and all the other gimmee programs the socialists/progressive /liberals /Democrats (whatever you want to call the goodies for nothing crowd ) want . You want the REAL definition of socialism American style ? It is "gimmee..... but takey from someone else to pay for it" . I see a Mel Gibson like character instead of screaming FREEDOM !! yelling FREEBIES !!!! They want dependence on the government but they don't want the government control over their lives that comes with the deal .
  • Dec 4, 2020, 04:47 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    My country has increased its military expenditure but it all takes time. We are responding to threats generated by your belligerant foreign policy, our size makes us an easy target for your opponents, who you consistently antagonise. Witness the current attitude of China to my nation, they consider us your lapdog and treat us accordingly and why? we echoed your call for a CV19 investigation, we have participated in your "freedom of navigation" exercises, we are your ally and while we share your concerns for the treatment of Tibetians and Yughars, you treat your migrants in the same way. So take your hyprocracy and put it where the light doesn't shine
    hmmm I guess you have to make a choice about which nation you want to be vassals to. China's aggression to almost all of it's neighbors is because of America ? Ok then .... I never saw your country as a nation of sheeple .
  • Dec 4, 2020, 05:19 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    you know nothing about our medical system and it certainly is superior to yours because no one has to go without medical care because of cost. No one is bankrupted to obtain medical care here.
    I know you have to take money from person A to pay for person B's med care. That limits both persons' liberty. I much prefer my med care being an issue between my doc and me.

    Quote:

    Capitalism, as you call it, has certain disadvantages, notably that it is based on exploitation..The brand of free enterprise you practise lacks social responsibility
    Capitalism is not based on exploitation. It is based on who owns what. And as for our "brand" of free enterprise, you don't have the slightest idea what it does, or does not, lack.

    Quote:

    My country has increased its military expenditure but it all takes time.
    The great excuse. But bear in mind that I don't care what you do. I care about what we do, and that needs to be cutting military spending and then telling countries like yours to grow up and take care of yourselves. Either that, or learn to speak Chinese.

    Quote:

    So take your hyprocracy and put it where the light doesn't shine
    Your usual, well thought out logic at work.
  • Dec 4, 2020, 05:32 AM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I know you have to take money from person A to pay for person B's med care. That limits both persons' liberty.

    How little you know our health care is paid for by a levy on all taxpayers or private health care, no one takes from anyone else

    Quote:

    Capitalism is not based on exploitation. It is based on who owns what.
    I wonder if Adam Smith thought that

    Quote:

    The great excuse. But bear in mind that I don't care what you do. I care about what we do, and that needs to be cutting military spending and then telling countries like yours to grow up and take care of yourselves.
    I think it would be good if we stopped wasting our resources following you into wars you cannot win, It is we who pay for our participation, not you, so you owe us a debt, not the other way around

    Quote:

    Your usual, well thought logic at work.
    at least what I say is logical, not ideological rhetoric
  • Dec 4, 2020, 05:42 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    a levy on all taxpayers or private health care, no one takes from anyone else
    You do realize the contradiction you have just posted? At any rate, when person B cannot pay for his med bill, and his tax "levy" doesn't even come close to covering it, then you take tax money from person A to help pay it. It's a concept a fifth grader can easily see and understand.

    Quote:

    I think it would be good if we stopped wasting our resources following you into wars you cannot win, It is we who pay for our participation, not you, so you owe us a debt, not the other way around
    And I'm not arguing with you about that. You don't want to participate? Fine with me. I'm just saying I don't want us spending multiple billions which allows you to get by with spending less than you should. And again, I don't care what your country does, and I say that with great respect and admiration for the Aussie people. But I care what we do. You want to let the Chinese come in and kick your tails because your military is underfunded? Go for it, but don't assume we are going to come running in to rescue you when you haven't done what you should have done to begin with. That's what I'm sick of. And reading the disrespectful, ungrateful, and hateful comments from you makes it even more sickening. I think most of our "allies" need a few years of having to get along without us to remind them of how much this country does for the rest of the unappreciative, arrogant world.

    Quote:

    at least what I say is logical
    When did you start that?
  • Dec 4, 2020, 10:17 AM
    talaniman
    Were you paying attention when your dufusist ideology was booted from office the last election?
  • Dec 4, 2020, 10:20 AM
    jlisenbe
    What does that have to do with this conversation?
  • Dec 4, 2020, 10:30 AM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    But the cost of a Ford class super carrier is piss in the ocean compared to the costs of socialized healthcare

    What is "socialized" healthcare?

    Quote:

    and all the other gimmee programs the socialists/progressive /liberals /Democrats (whatever you want to call the goodies for nothing crowd ) want
    Please name the programs the "socialists/progressive /liberals /Democrats (whatever you want to call the goodies for nothing crowd ) want.

    Quote:

    You want the REAL definition of socialism American style ? It is "gimmee..... but takey from someone else to pay for it" .
    Does that include all the programs supported by taxation? Or only the ones you don't like.

    Quote:

    They want dependence on the government but they don't want the government control over their lives that comes with the deal .
    Do you object to child labor laws? Licensing drivers? Military spending? Social Security? Etc., etc., etc.
  • Dec 4, 2020, 10:49 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    What does that have to do with this conversation?

    Joe is for taxing the rich to help the poor and giving them healthcare which the dufusists like you make the rich richer and screw the poor sick people. You wingers love to use labels to denigrate others while elevating yourselves. You capitalists dufusites are no better than the socialists communists you rail against.

    That's why that thinking was voted down and OUT!
  • Dec 4, 2020, 11:05 AM
    tomder55
    Child labor laws are reforms of capitalism ;not socialism


    Military spending is defined in the constitution ;a mandated government service to provide for the common defense .

    Licensing drivers is a state issue ;but no that is not socialism .Driving is a privilege ;not a right .A person has to be of an age and have a competence to safely drive before being permitted to do so .

    Social Security ...... The government, not individuals or businesses, runs the Social Security system. It tracks Social Security earnings and benefits, approves or denies retirement benefit applications, collects taxes and distributes benefits . Social security is socialism and I do not like the ponzi scheme at all .
  • Dec 4, 2020, 11:47 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Joe is for taxing the rich to help the poor and giving them healthcare which the dufusists like you make the rich richer and screw the poor sick people. You wingers love to use labels to denigrate others while elevating yourselves. You capitalists dufusites are no better than the socialists communists you rail against.
    If you think that Biden's tax increases will in any way pay for healthcare for all, then you have been drinking the Biden kool aid for waaayyyyyy too long. It's just another liberal fantasy. It's like pretending that putting a gallon of gas into a car will enable a trip of a thousand miles. It's ludicrous.

    But I EAGERLY anticipate the day when they increase the taxes on your bxtt in order to pay for all of this Alice in Wonderland approach, and to hear you howling when they force you to actually pony up and pay for these things with some of your own money which you have absolutely no present intention of doing. It's just another episode of your painless (for you) charitable intentions. "I love poor people so much that I am willing to make other people help them out."
  • Dec 4, 2020, 12:02 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    How little you know our health care is paid for by a levy on all taxpayers or private health care, no one takes from anyone else

    Exactly!
    https://www.schumachercargo.com/aust...icare%20system.
  • Dec 4, 2020, 12:08 PM
    jlisenbe
    A person would have to be an idiot to not understand that when a low income person gets an operation, they have not even come close to paying for that operation with their "levy". So where do you suppose the extra money comes from?
  • Dec 4, 2020, 01:03 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    You do realize the contradiction you have just posted? At any rate, when person B cannot pay for his med bill, and his tax "levy" doesn't even come close to covering it, then you take tax money from person A to help pay it. It's a concept a fifth grader can easily see and understand.

    You are like a broken record, endlessly repeating yourself

    Quote:

    And I'm not arguing with you about that. You don't want to participate? Fine with me. I'm just saying I don't want us spending multiple billions which allows you to get by with spending less than you should. And again, I don't care what your country does, and I say that with great respect and admiration for the Aussie people. But I care what we do. You want to let the Chinese come in and kick your tails because your military is underfunded? Go for it, but don't assume we are going to come running in to rescue you when you haven't done what you should have done to begin with. That's what I'm sick of. And reading the disrespectful, ungrateful, and hateful comments from you makes it even more sickening. I think most of our "allies" need a few years of having to get along without us to remind them of how much this country does for the rest of the unappreciative, arrogant world.
    No one asked you to spend billions on the military and neglect your own population. No one asked you to start wars that drag on for years with failure as the ineveitable result. You speak of the rest of the world as arrogant, but it is you who are arrogant. What have we got to be grateful for? It is you who committed yourselves only after you were attacked in both WWI and WWII, it is your arrogant actions that brought the Chinese into the Korean war, need I go on

    Quote:

    When did you start that?
    It has always been so
  • Dec 4, 2020, 01:09 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    You are like a broken record, endlessly repeating yourself
    That's kind of how the truth works.

    As for our supposed arrogance, if you will check out the citizens of S. Korea, Poland, Germany, Hungary, Israel, and a number of others, they will express their appreciation for American backbone over the years that resulted in their current free states. It was not the Aussie military that forced the Soviets into practical bankruptcy and essentially ended the Cold War.

    You're welcome.

    And I'll say it again. I'm all for you guys undertaking your own national defense without depending on us sending the cavalry at the first threat of Aussie distress.

    Quote:

    It has always been so
    If you really believe that, then the problem is beginning to become clear.
  • Dec 4, 2020, 03:17 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post

    If you really believe that, then the problem is beginning to become clear.

    Yes the problem is clear, american arrogance, the "we rule the world" complex and the "the world owes us" complex. You are proud of destroying the soviet economy when in fact their military adventurism is what destroyed their economy and there is a lesson there that you have yet to learn. I'm glad that Australia had no part in destroying their economy and I'm glad we will take no part in destroying yours and yet you take pride in the destruction of other nations and the building up of aggressors like Japan and Germany. You once defended China and now you have made them your enemy. You do know it doesn't make sense.

    There is a lot you could learn from our approach and yet you are too arrogant to realise it. You think might is right and an attitude like that inevitably leads to war. Your nation is presently being devastated by a disease that in your arrogance you say we can afford business as usual and it is too expensive to help out our destitue populations. Do you realise there may be a good reason why america is not mentioned in the Bible
  • Dec 4, 2020, 03:58 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    "we rule the world"
    No.
    Quote:

    "the world owes us"
    Absolutely.
    Quote:

    You are proud of destroying the soviet economy when in fact their military adventurism is what destroyed their economy and there is a lesson there that you have yet to learn.
    I didn't say we destroyed their economy. I said they went bankrupt trying to keep up with us in a global arms race. As for the lesson we need to learn, for for the fifth or sixth time I will repeat that I am all for us scaling back and telling Australia (and others), "We are no longer your guarantee. We will be your ally, but we will not be your fence post to lean on. Take care of yourself. We are not your welfare daddy."

    Quote:

    Do you realise there may be a good reason why america is not mentioned in the Bible
    You mean like Australia is???
  • Dec 4, 2020, 04:07 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    No. Absolutely. I didn't say we destroyed their economy. I said they went bankrupt trying to keep up with us in a global arms race. As for the lesson we need to learn, for for the fifth or sixth time I will repeat that I am all for us scaling back and telling Australia (and others), "We are no longer your guarantee. We will be your ally, but we will not be your fence post to lean on. Take care of yourself. We are not your welfare daddy."

    You mean like Australia is???

    Yes the south land is mentioned, it seems we will suffer many trials. You have a treaty with us so there is a mutual obligation there something we take seriously and it is costly. We don't expect welfare from you, with your record we know we wouldn't get it and if we had your population we would be the most successful nation on Earth, we have already demonstrated our economic prowess.

    Your Trump attitude is showing but your leader was a flash in the pan
  • Dec 4, 2020, 04:40 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    with your record we know we wouldn't get it and if we had your population we would be the most successful nation on Earth, we have already demonstrated our economic prowess.
    And you think we're arrogant? Wow. Hello, Mr. Kettle.

    Your 2019 GDP was about 1.4 tril. Ours was over 20 tril. You are 1/10th of our population, but much less than 1/10th of our GDP. So if you had our population, you would trail us by over 6 trillion dollars. So much for that argument.

    https://statisticstimes.com/economy/...ies-by-gdp.php

    The south land is mentioned. That made me laugh.
  • Dec 4, 2020, 05:58 PM
    talaniman
    There you go with the cookware analogy again. Good thing that thinking has been rejected again. Not that rejection will ever make you wingers go away, or stop ranting and raving about abnormal social norms.
  • Dec 4, 2020, 06:12 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    There you go with the cookware analogy again. Good thing that thinking has been rejected again. Not that rejection will ever make you wingers go away, or stop ranting and raving about abnormal social norms.
    I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but that is a completely ridiculous, senseless statement that makes not one ounce of sense.
  • Dec 4, 2020, 06:16 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    And you think we're arrogant? Wow. Hello, Mr. Kettle.

    Your 2019 GDP was about 1.4 tril. Ours was over 20 tril. You are 1/10th of our population, but much less than 1/10th of our GDP. So if you had our population, you would trail us by over 6 trillion dollars. So much for that argument.

    https://statisticstimes.com/economy/...ies-by-gdp.php

    The south land is mentioned. That made me laugh.

    Let us put it in perspective, you have 15 times our population and it took you 250 years to grow your economy to where it is today where as we have grown to where we are in 120 years so your reading of statistics is selective. at best

    Quote:

    Joshua 15:19 And she said, Give me a blessing; for that thou hast set me in the land of the South, give me also springs of water. And he gave her the upper springs and the nether springs. (See JPS)Judges 1:15 And she said unto him, Give me a blessing; for that thou hast set me in the land of the South, give me also springs of water. And Caleb gave her the upper springs and the nether springs. (See JPS)Isaiah 21:1 The burden of the wilderness of the sea. As whirlwinds in the South sweeping on, it cometh from the wilderness, from a dreadful land. (See NIV)Ezekiel 20:46 Son of man, set thy face the way of Teman, and prophesy unto the south, and prophesy unto the forest of the field -- the south; (See NIV)
  • Dec 4, 2020, 06:20 PM
    jlisenbe
    You are smaller than I thought. At any rate, the ratio is more like 13 to 1, which makes your per capita GDP still smaller than ours. Your mentioning of years is irrelevant. Have you had to lead the free world in two great world wars just in the past one hundred years? Didn't think so.
  • Dec 4, 2020, 06:43 PM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Child labor laws are reforms of capitalism ;not socialism

    When child labor was being denounced by the day's liberals, the factory and mine owners, capitalists all, were screaming bloody murder when threatened by losing their minimally paid 5-year-old workers, working 10-12 hours a day for a pittance. They gave reasons rooted in the Bible for employing children.

    From 1902 to 1915, child labor committees emphasized reform through state legislatures. Many laws restricting child labor were passed as part of the progressive reform movement of this period. But many southern states resisted, leading to the decision to work for a federal child labor law. While Congress passed such laws in 1916 and 1918, the Supreme Court declared them unconstitutional

    The factory and mine owners and other supporters of child labor sought a constitutional amendment authorizing federal child labor legislation and it passed in 1924, in the the CONSERVATIVE political climate of the 1920s.

    Factory owners preferred hiring children because they were cheaper, less likely to strike, and more manageable than adults. However, factory work was grueling; a child working in a factory worked 12 to 18 hours a day, six days a week, for only one dollar. Many children began working as young as 7, tending machines in spinning mills or carrying heavy loads.

    Finally, FDR's New Deal put an end to the abuse - NOT Capitalists.

    Quote:

    Military spending is defined in the constitution ;a mandated government service to provide for the common defense
    As I said, it's not the transfer of money you object to, it's the REASON for the transfer of money you object to.

    Quote:

    Licensing drivers is a state issue ;but no that is not socialism
    It fits your definition of government ruling individual citizens.

    Quote:

    Social Security ...... The government runs the Social Security system. It tracks Social Security earnings and benefits, approves or denies retirement benefit applications, collects taxes and distributes benefits . Social security is socialism and I do not like the ponzi scheme at all .
    Yes, we know all that. You don't like it but the fact remains it has been the chief method to avoid poverty and sickness in old age. Government pensions are now world-wide in the industrial world doing an enormous amount of good but to you, it's just a Ponzi scheme.
  • Dec 4, 2020, 06:55 PM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but that is a completely ridiculous, senseless statement that makes not one ounce of sense.

    You didn't hurt my feelings at all. I expect things to be beyond your range of comprehension on most things. You never fail to reinforce that fact. I suppose that's why you have to tell folks how great you are and they should follow your lead for their own good. You handle rejection well though, as no matter how many times you get rejected you never waver from your own ideology, and that's not a compliment mind you, but an acceptance of the facts.

    Make no mistake you are roundly rejected though AGAIN. Make better sense now? No matter, just keep going round and round hollering the sky is falling, and only you can fix it.
  • Dec 4, 2020, 07:29 PM
    jlisenbe
    Blah, blah, blah. If you ever have anything sensible and meaningful to say, let me know. "Oh, you're rejected. Oh, you have no comprehension. Oh, that's not a compliment. Oh, it's like selling cookware. Oh, the sky is falling." Good grief. It sounds like a children's story.
  • Dec 4, 2020, 07:49 PM
    talaniman
    You are a child you maroon. You aren't here to discuss or exchange ideas. You're here to chunk rocks and be sneaky about it. Homey ain't playing that. You got rocks in your hand, chunk 'em. I got rocks and I am going to chunk 'em at you so lets stop pretending and chunk some rocks.
  • Dec 4, 2020, 07:58 PM
    paraclete
    yes let's all go and rock jl's roof, I've been doing it all morning with little effect

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    You are smaller than I thought. At any rate, the ratio is more like 13 to 1, which makes your per capita GDP still smaller than ours. Your mentioning of years is irrelevant. Have you had to lead the free world in two great world wars just in the past one hundred years? Didn't think so.

    How little you know of history we were in both wars long before you and were the terror of the Germans. You say you led the free world in both wars, in fact you were a reluctant participant and were only dragged kicking and screaming into them when attacked and you had to abandon your precious neutrality, you are being precious JL, so that is how I will refer to you in future "the precious"
  • Dec 4, 2020, 08:05 PM
    talaniman
    Hello Clete. Don't aim for the roof, go for between the eyes.
  • Dec 4, 2020, 08:12 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    You are a child you maroon. You aren't here to discuss or exchange ideas. You're here to chunk rocks and be sneaky about it. Homey ain't playing that. You got rocks in your hand, chunk 'em. I got rocks and I am going to chunk 'em at you so lets stop pretending and chunk some rocks.
    So is this chapter two of the children's story? You might have a real talent there! However, "Homey ain't playing that," doesn't even fit into a children's narrative. But you did give me a good laugh, and for that I thank you. That'll be a keeper for a long time. The more I think of it, the funnier it gets. "Homey ain't playing that while he chucks those rocks." "Homey wants to discuss his ideas!" "Homey really thinks someone else is being childish." It's hilarious. Really now. Homey???
  • Dec 4, 2020, 08:49 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    we were in both wars long before you and were the terror of the Germans.
    Yep. Just the sight of those 14 Aussie soldiers practically ended the war right on the spot. What part of "leading" do you have trouble understanding? In what way have you guys "led the world" in the past century?

    To be sure, I have respect for Australia and even admire your country. However, when you make these kind of absurd remarks, it doesn't help your cause. "with your record we know we wouldn't get it and if we had your population we would be the most successful nation on Earth, we have already demonstrated our economic prowess." Don't be guilty of over reach.
  • Dec 5, 2020, 04:48 AM
    paraclete
    How precious, but then you are precious, savagely defending the reluctance of your nation to defend freedom because the truth is something you have not been taught. We lost thousands in WWI and in WWII while you sat at home dithering and growing rich but we did have some successes but you would not have been taught about them because, afterall, they were not american victories.

    My own grandfather was lost at Ypres and you dare to sully his memory and his valour and denigrate his contribution
    https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/atwa...for%20Britain.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milita...%20Ge%20...%20
  • Dec 5, 2020, 06:20 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    When child labor was being denounced by the day's liberals, the factory and mine owners, capitalists all, were screaming bloody murder when threatened by losing their minimally paid 5-year-old workers, working 10-12 hours a day for a pittance. They gave reasons rooted in the Bible for employing children.

    From 1902 to 1915, child labor committees emphasized reform through state legislatures. Many laws restricting child labor were passed as part of the progressive reform movement of this period. But many southern states resisted, leading to the decision to work for a federal child labor law. While Congress passed such laws in 1916 and 1918, the Supreme Court declared them unconstitutional

    The factory and mine owners and other supporters of child labor sought a constitutional amendment authorizing federal child labor legislation and it passed in 1924, in the the CONSERVATIVE political climate of the 1920s.

    Factory owners preferred hiring children because they were cheaper, less likely to strike, and more manageable than adults. However, factory work was grueling; a child working in a factory worked 12 to 18 hours a day, six days a week, for only one dollar. Many children began working as young as 7, tending machines in spinning mills or carrying heavy loads.

    Finally, FDR's New Deal put an end to the abuse - NOT Capitalists.


    Military spending is defined in the constitution ;a mandated government service to provide for the common defense


    As I said, it's not the transfer of money you object to, it's the REASON for the transfer of money you object to.


    Licensing drivers is a state issue ;but no that is not socialism


    It fits your definition of government ruling individual citizens.


    Social Security ...... The government runs the Social Security system. It tracks Social Security earnings and benefits, approves or denies retirement benefit applications, collects taxes and distributes benefits . Social security is socialism and I do not like the ponzi scheme at all .


    Yes, we know all that. You don't like it but the fact remains it has been the chief method to avoid poverty and sickness in old age. Government pensions are now world-wide in the industrial world doing an enormous amount of good but to you, it's just a Ponzi scheme.



    Child labor laws
    ....neither the worker nor the government owns the means of production. No form of capitalism except perhaps extreme laissez faire objects to some form of government regulation.

    Quote:

    As I said, it's not the transfer of money you object to, it's the REASON for the transfer of money you object to.
    I don't object to constitutionally mandated spending .The Constitution empowers Congress to raise armed forces and for the President to be CIC.

    Licenses . I stand by what I wrote. There is no right to drive .

    Social Security is definitely a ponzi scheme.

    a two-earner couple receiving an average wage — $44,600 per spouse in 2012 dollars — and turning 65 in 2010 would have paid $722,000 into Social Security and Medicare and can be expected to take out $966,000 in benefits. So, this couple will be paid about one-third more in benefits than they paid in taxes.

    If a similar couple had retired in 1980, they would have gotten back almost three times what they put in. And if they had retired in 1960, they would have gotten back more than eight times what they paid in.

    Put that aside . I have paid in much more individually than the 2 wage couple paid in from the example. But if I had worked my life and saved what the SS tax collected ,I would've gotten a much bigger return for my buck than what SS pays out . But the ponzi scheme is close to being realized. As more of us geezer boomers retire ;there are less workers paying in to support the system . It will in fact go bankrupt unless higher levels of payroll taxes are levied on the young workers ;or if the benefits paid out are cut ;or if the government really breaks it's promise and makes the whole system just another means tested welfare program.
  • Dec 5, 2020, 06:39 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    savagely defending the reluctance of your nation to defend freedom because the truth is something you have not been taught. We lost thousands in WWI and in WWII while you sat at home dithering and growing rich but we did have some successes but you would not have been taught about them because, afterall, they were not american victories.
    Wow. I'm "savagely defending" my nation? I'm really impressed with myself! So again, at what time has Australia ever led the world in anything?

    As to us supposedly sitting home, you need to make up your mind. If we don't go to war, you get upset. If we do go to war, you get upset. I get the impression that you just like getting upset.



    Quote:

    My own grandfather was lost at Ypres and you dare to sully his memory and his valour and denigrate his contribution
    I'm not sullying anything, nor am I mocking Australia's military contributions. I'm enjoying myself a great deal by making fun of your constant tendency to greatly overstate and wildly exaggerate anything Australia does and then denigrate anything we have done. It is as predictable as the sun rising in the east.

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