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Australian borders close again

Lockdown has taken a leap backwards as state borders join international borders in closure. Victoria is now closed to international arrivals and its neighbours as well. CV19 is escalating in the state of Victoria while the rest of the nation remains relatively free of the scourge. It seems that migrants, both new and old, just don't get the message despite the message being disseminated in various languages. One wonders if this is the reason it spreads world wide, just plain unwillingness to assimilate and cooperate

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...worry/12423934

meanwhile one racist stokes the flames

https://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...2d1f99ed29b171

Quote:

Originally Posted by paraclete

One wonders if this is the reason it spreads world wide, just plain unwillingness to assimilate and cooperate

No wonder about it. That's the main reason for the spread - unwillingness fed by ignorance.

They could probably cooperate if they could afford it. We see the same dynamic here Clete, with low wage, but ESSENTIAL services migrants, and citizens in small cramped multi occupied apartments, and young buck wild youths with more energy than brains.

A veritable petri dish for virus growth and spread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

They could probably cooperate if they could afford it. We see the same dynamic here Clete, with low wage, but ESSENTIAL services migrants, and citizens in small cramped multi occupied apartments, and young buck wild youths with more energy than brains.

A veritable petri dish for virus growth and spread.

Yes no common sense, they destroyed the place they came from and they think they can do the same here, they are locked up and they bleet like sheep, They are not loosing out to poorly paid jobs, their benefits have been increased, but they won't be tested. They represent pockets of infection, just like cruise ships. Yes, it is hard to be in isolation, this week I will visit some of my family I haven't seen in six months, but I can only do that because they live in the same state

LOL, excited this morning are we? Frustrated about the virus making you isolate yourselves. Ungrateful immigrants are another story though.

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unwillingness to assimilate and cooperate

wow you keeps saying stuff like that your statue is going to come down here .

We have Australian statues in America? Whose idea was that?

Oh we have that same silly idea here borrowed from you, pulling down statues of people we once though great just becuase they dared to set foot on indigenous land, covid 19 brings out the silliness in people

The American Taliban needs no reason to destroy American cultural symbols They are on a frenzy now . Latest examples ... a statue of Frederic Douglas was toppled the 4th of July on the anniversary of his famous speech . Disney just released a movie of the very successful musical about Alexander Hamilton. Now they want that taken down over some charge that Hamilton was a slave trader .The truth is he despised slavery .He urged the enlistment of black soldiers in Washington’s army.In NY he became President of the Manumission Society, But He had worked as a clerk for a slave trader as a youth ,and his wife's family were slave holders . So CANCEL one of the greatest of the founders The nut jobs even torched a statue of an elk in Portland . Actually smoked elk is rather tasty . hmmm

They toppled the statue of King Louis IX of France (13th century king). Seems he was the one the city of St. Louis is named after. Considered one of the most enlightened monarchs of Europe, his sin was fighting the Crusades. You know, those wars Europe fought after Islam swept over and conquered the original homeland of Christianity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athos

They toppled the statue of King Louis IX of France (13th century king). Seems he was the one the city of St. Louis is named after. Considered one of the most enlightened monarchs of Europe, his sin was fighting the Crusades. You know, those wars Europe fought after Islam swept over and conquered the original homeland of Christianity.

Don't you see it he fought against a coloured race, arabs, this is the revenge of Islam thinly disguised

Revolutionaries who would topple the old ruling order do topple statues . The American revolutionaries toppled a statue of King George III in NYC to celebrate the signing of the Declaration of Independence. So yeah there is a parallel between those who want to destroy the country and those who wanted to break the bonds of union with the British crown and even more appropriate ;the comparison of the anarchy that became the French revolution.

The cancel culture today reminds me of the Jacobins and their version of political correctness. Of course they eventually ran out of enemies outside their ranks and turned on each other .

The United States created a nation that has lasted 233 years . The French revolution ended in Napoleon's dictatorship.

BTW Clete . we do have foreign statues here . One of the most revered evidently is that one of Vladimir Lenin in Seattle . That one will never be toppled by the anarchists . They revere it too much
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...in_Seattle.jpg

why do you have a statue of Lenin the arch enemy of capitalism and yes you have a foreign statue; the statue of Liberty

Quote:

Originally Posted by paraclete

why do you have a statue of Lenin the arch enemy of capitalism and yes you have a foreign statue; the statue of Liberty

The Lenin statue is private that somebody bought when communism was collapsing in Eastern Europe and Russia. The owner couldn't sell it and the city stored it where it is now waiting for a buyer since the city didn't know what to do with it. It is usually graffiti-ed and vandalized. NOBODY REVERES IT, TOM.

Liberty is hardly a foreign statue. It is arguably the most famous statue in the world gifted to the US by the French people. The model was the sculptor's mother. Come on, you knew that.

LOL, Lady Liberty has long been a beacon of hope, until the dufus came along and started talking hate. At least there are no statutes of him yet! Are there? Bad enough he plasters his name all over the place, some of which have been taken down since he became president.

When I was in Paris I saw at least 2 of the model statues of Lady Liberty . What
Athos said about it is correct . But I have to wonder why he thinks that a statue of Lenin is safe because it is privately owned . That I think would not stop the rabid mob of nihilists . No statue has been safe to date .

Breaking News!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamarat.../#6bc025e77c26

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...6d3922c866e310

What is the mortality rate ? We have this new spike (they finally admitted that the 'peaceful protests ' had something to do with it . ) . But the mortality rate is lowering . Maybe the President has a point in saying that some of the spike is due to increased testing .

Mortality rates lag behind from a week to 21 days, and can go even longer, but testing can take up to a few days for results, and of course does find many more than just those hospitalized, but the real purpose is knowing who to isolate so it doesn't spread further, faster, without knowing. Is that a reason to not test? Of course not, and we all figured everybody would eventually get infected, and that's just what most epidemic/pandemic models have always shown. That's always been a given. Infections aren't the important number, but infection rates and effects on the health care system, and for treatment/isolation/quarantine purposes. In this area we are woefully behind and inadequately prepared to this day which makes the encounter of unknown spreaders highly likely, mask or NOT!

Any event can be a disease spreader, protests, rallies, speeches etc. DINNER TABLES, almost anyplace with any kind of human activity. yes Tom we know more than we did when it started but much more to learn so go ahead and listen to the dufus and your pocket book.

The virus is the #1 priority until you capitalists get smarter than the scientist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

What is the mortality rate ? We have this new spike (they finally admitted that the 'peaceful protests ' had something to do with it . ) . But the mortality rate is lowering . Maybe the President has a point in saying that some of the spike is due to increased testing .

the spike is due to increased infection and beware the second wave and the third so all you can do is proceed with caution

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

Maybe the President has a point in saying that some of the spike is due to increased testing .

Surely, you jest!

Surely he does jest Athos, and Tom loves to poke the bear knowing full well that widespread comprehensive testing is the only way to facilitate a successful SAFE economic opening. The dufus loves to say stuff that makes him seem tough, but never articulates a thoughtful plan. Repubs are notorious for that. Remember repeal and replace? Anybody seen a replace though we have hundreds of votes to repeal?

here is my plan ; open up and permit everyone to live their lives . Guidelines have been established . It is clear from your California brethren that you can't keep free people locked up forever . You close down bars ;people throw parties like they did in New York . Does il duce think by making the law harder that this will change ?
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coro...acers/2494189/

We have already made significant sacrifices based on the assurance that lock downs are temporary and things like vaccines will very soon come on the market that will make this whole experience a thing of the past . But what if that isn't the case ? What if the best science can do is come up with a vaccine that is at best 50% reliable ? Or what if immunity is temporary ? Or what if the virus mutates like the flu annually and we are subject to regular cycles of infection ? It is one thing to say we will disrupt life for months or maybe a year . But what if life with the threat of the virus is the new normal ? Humans are social animals. I would say humans need to work to survive but you guys are well on your way to establishing workarounds for that . Of course who will pay for them is the rub. Children need to go to school . Infections have gone up and mortality rates are dropping to flu like levels . We have a profile of who is vulnerable to severe cases and most of the rest of the population that get mild cases or in many cases are asymptomatic . Enough with the delays .

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

here is my plan ; open up and permit everyone to live their lives

According to NATURE, if there had been no lockdowns in the US from 3 March to 6 April, the number of cases would have grown to a shocking 60 million.

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We have already made significant sacrifices based on the assurance that lock downs are temporary and things like vaccines will very soon come on the market that will make this whole experience a thing of the past

That assurance has been made by no one except your hero Trump. He repeats it even though it never has happened.

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But what if that isn't the case ? What if the best science can do is come up with a vaccine that is at best 50% reliable ? Or what if immunity is temporary ? Or what if the virus mutates like the flu annually and we are subject to regular cycles of infection ?

All those questions may or may not be answered. All that can be done is wait. At present, the safest way to wait is by staying home, wearing masks and washing hands. Ignoring the virus is NOT the way to proceed. It's madness.

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It is one thing to say we will disrupt life for months or maybe a year . But what if life with the threat of the virus is the new normal ? Humans are social animals. I would say humans need to work to survive but you guys are well on your way to establishing workarounds for that . Of course who will pay for them is the rub. Children need to go to school . Infections have gone up and mortality rates are dropping to flu like levels . We have a profile of who is vulnerable to severe cases and most of the rest of the population that get mild cases or in many cases are asymptomatic . Enough with the delays .

This kind of talk promotes hysteria. It's been a relatively short time for Covid so far. We don't know when it will slow down or be eliminated. What we DO know is that it can be mitigated NOW by taking the steps mentioned.

The dufus's latest edict with no plan is open the schools and deport international students. Of course Harvard and MIT are filing a lawsuit.

yes open the schools it can be done. https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net...c7&oe=5F29E440

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

yes open the schools it can be done. https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net...c7&oe=5F29E440

Recess? Bathroom breaks? Classroom discussions? Teacher instruction? Lunchtime? Gym class? Riding on the school buses?

Wonder who cleans those cubicles after every class?

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Recess? Bathroom breaks? Classroom discussions? Teacher instruction? Lunchtime? Gym class? Riding on the school buses?

oh my God ! Don't let them touch the door nobs or sit on the toilets !!! Take the next generation and put them in bubble wrap . Come on !

Quote:

Wonder who cleans those cubicles after every class?

job opportunity for sanitation specialists aka janitors .

The responses to this op demonstrate you dont have a clue and fully deserve the mess you are in

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

oh my God ! Don't let them touch the door nobs or sit on the toilets !!! Take the next generation and put them in bubble wrap . Come on !

Apparently you haven't heard that the huge increase in covid cases have been traced back to a 45 rally in Tulsa. Am waiting to hear the covid stats from the July 3rd and 4th rallies.

And you don't have any school-age grandchildren and nieces/nephews?

LOL, wait till he gets the bill to bubble wrap the kids before sending them to school. I'm sure he will be thrilled!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Apparently you haven't heard that the huge increase in covid cases have been traced back to a 45 rally in Tulsa. Am waiting to hear the covid stats from the July 3rd and 4th rallies.

And you don't have any school-age grandchildren and nieces/nephews?

what i have heard is the CDC admits a positive just means you might have had the common cold maybe this is what trump means when he says 99% of covid cases arnt serious

How ever maybe thats why there are many cases in victoria been a lot of testing there

Testing positive means you must be isolated for 14 days, and unless you do you will infect others and probably have already. Hospitalizations are up, and that's not good either. Think about it, the ones you don't test are potential spreaders, maybe unknowingly, and unwittily, but no less dangerous. For sure though knowing who to isolate and for how long is critical, so the notion that 99% of cases is an abject LIE!

If this is like the flu then it's a really really bad one.

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Apparently you haven't heard that the huge increase in covid cases have been traced back to a 45 rally in Tulsa. Am waiting to hear the covid stats from the July 3rd and 4th rallies.

And you don't have any school-age grandchildren and nieces/nephews?

What I do know is that cases among young children are extremely rare with a mortality rate at zero .And it is as rare that kids transmit the virus to others . Keeping kids out of school is ridiculous are cruel to the kids

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

What I do know is that cases among young children are extremely rare with a mortality rate at zero .And it is as rare that kids transmit the virus to others . Keeping kids out of school is ridiculous are cruel to the kids

Keeping kids in school is cruel to the teachers who may contract the virus. What is it about social distancing and lockdown do you not understand, you cannot effectively distance in schools and kids are not immune, it is just that the disease targets those with health and lifestyle problems

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020...ading-covid-19

It's okay to make decisions for your kids, but not mine. There is always the possibility that your kid can effect you and anyone else even if they don't get very sick themselves and while school is crucially important when not be safe about it? I guess the society that does nothing to protect it's kids against school shootings would have no regard for school safety against diseases either.

Tal and 'clete are right. And we have no idea about long-term effects of covid-19 on kids as they grow up and become adults.

You do realize that schools in Europe are up and running ? In Texas they are giving parents the choice . Guess the kids who don't have access to computers at home are SOL .

I give you the American Pediatrics Association :

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...the AAP strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school. The importance of in-person learning is well-documented, and there is already evidence of the negative impacts on children because of school closures in the spring of 2020. Lengthy time away from school and associated interruption of supportive services often results in social isolation, making it difficult for schools to identify and address important learning deficits as well as child and adolescent physical or sexual abuse, substance use, depression, and suicidal ideation. This, in turn, places children and adolescents at considerable risk of morbidity and, in some cases, mortality. Beyond the educational impact and social impact of school closures, there has been substantial impact on food security and physical activity for children and families.
Policy makers must also consider the mounting evidence regarding COVID-19 in children and adolescents, including the role they may play in transmission of the infection. SARS-CoV-2 appears to behave differently in children and adolescents than other common respiratory viruses, such as influenza, on which much of the current guidance regarding school closures is based. Although children and adolescents play a major role in amplifying influenza outbreaks, to date, this does not appear to be the case with SARS-CoV-2. Although many questions remain, the preponderance of evidence indicates that children and adolescents are less likely to be symptomatic and less likely to have severe disease resulting from SARS-CoV-2 infection. In addition, children may be less likely to become infected and to spread infection. Policies to mitigate the spread of COVID-19 within schools must be balanced with the known harms to children, adolescents, families, and the community by keeping children at home.
Finally, policy makers should acknowledge that COVID-19 policies are intended to mitigate, not eliminate, risk. No single action or set of actions will completely eliminate the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission, but implementation of several coordinated interventions can greatly reduce that risk. For example, where physical distance cannot be maintained, students (over the age of 2 years) and staff can wear face coverings (when feasible). In the following sections, we review some general principles that policy makers should consider as they plan for the coming school year. For all of these, education for the entire school community regarding these measures should begin early, ideally at least several weeks before the start of the school year.

you can read the whole thing here .
https://services.aap.org/en/pages/20...on-in-schools/

As for the teachers ;they are ESSENTIAL workers in the country and as such should be subject to the same work environment as every other essential worker in the country who show up every day ! Teachers can wear masks too !!!

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The reopening of schools in 22 European countries has not led to any significant increase in coronavirus infections among children, parents or staff, a videoconference meeting of education ministers from around the EU has heard.......

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...eturn-covid-19

Every place but the USA shutdown until they got the virus under control. We cannot duplicate what they are doing without doing the work involved at least to the extent the NY metroplex did.

That's the flaw in the dufus/conservative plan to reopen everything. See the difference?

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/0...ta-ldn-vpx.cnn