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https://www.news.com.au/world/north-...2fb1e417f65f1d
In many cities in the US there is chaos and mayhem blamed on police brutality, but it is a sign of a bigger problem. Draconian laws targetting the minority, the continued oppression of coloured and poor people and a system that relies on violence instead of goodwill and a frustration of a society ordered to shutdown
I think you are partially right, but the number of incidents where the police are guilty of violence against a person of color is pretty low. The real problems lie elsewhere. The crime rate of young black men is very high. The out of wedlock birth rate is VERY high in the black community. Young minority kids are frequently stuck in sub-par schools and get a sub-par education. There is a welfare mentality in much of the country that works against people. But racist policemen seem to be few and far between. Even in the case of George Floyd, it is not definite that the policeman targeted him because he was black. His treatment of Floyd was terrible for sure and he certainly should be prosecuted, but he might have done the same if Floyd had been white.
As I said manifestation of a bigger problem. perhaps racist behaviour is at the root of this but so is reverse racist behaviour. If white society is racist so is coloured society but disadvantage is endemic. For two months people have been penned up and natural release behaviours have been denied, so they give vent to their anger and voice to the violence that once again rares its ugly head. perhaps it is time to root out the fanatics in the police force, those who fail to recognise that recourse to violence isn't a first response. remove the god mentality from the police force and give a mandatory death sentence to anyone who kills whether in the name of the law or notQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I expected this sooner . I would say for the most part the protests have been peaceful The real problem is the outside agitation by anarchists . We all agree on George Floyd, which is why a bad cop is now under arrest. Anyone who defends looting and rioting and targeting of business owners and cops on this basis is nothing short of evil.
https://twitter.com/jackposobiec/sta..._R4BRCWOorLC2M
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status...24900427132928
https://twitter.com/TKQ1777/status/1266941688972378113
How long has this been going on? How many of these triggering incidents have we had just this spring? Easy to ignore the alarm clock when you don't want to hear it. Just keep hitting snooze!
Take a look at HK as a guide to how long it might go on. Violence went on for months and has started up again, different issues but obviously, people have had enough and are going to keep it up until change happens. So over to the legislature to change the laws and give more weight to anti-violence on behalf of police forces and less draconian responses to demonstrations
Four? And in the meantime, over 150 black Americans are murdered EVERY WEEK, about 90% of them by other black individuals. But that gets no traction because, after all, who gives a rats rear end about an innocent person who was merely murdered by a non-white? Hundreds of thousands of inner city minority kids are stuck in pathetic schools, but no one cares because you can't blame that on a cop. The equation is very simple. Let's get all wound up over what OTHER people should do to fix the problems of black America. It would be too demanding to expect black America to do their own fixing. That's not too surprising. It's human nature to always want to blame my problems on someone else, but it's a fool's errandQuote:
How many of these triggering incidents have we had just this spring?
Vigilantes stalking and killing a guy they think is a criminal and it gets swept under the rug for months? Who made that decision. Cops with the wrong house killing a resident? Whose problem is that? Knee to the neck until death and 3 cops just watch? Whose problem is that? If you can't get the obvious stuff right then not much progress can be made on the whole problem, which is segregation and discrimination, suppression, oppression, and plain old racism.
The issue before us now is the culture of our cops that condone murder of it's citizens, and unrestrained vigilantes empowered to intervene where ever they please. Not saying there are not other issues to be addressed, long term inequities to be balanced, like poverty, but for now we want justice for an obvious failure to protect and serve.
You should listen to that. You shouldn't dismiss what every body has been saying.
It's a fake issue. An isolated occurence does not amount to "the culture of our cops". If you want the situation of poverty to improve, then you can forget about the "cops that condone murder" narrative. It is a minor, minor contributor to the problem. If anyone really wants to get serious about poverty in the black community, then the real problems have to be addressed. The rest is just window dressing. Not saying it does not bring a lot of emotional pain. I'm sure it does, but it certainly is not a major contributor to poverty. The very sad truth is that the glorious day arrived long ago when social prejudice against black people had been diminished to the point that it could no longer hold back black people as a whole. They have become the masters of their own destinies, and yet there are very real problems which no one wants to talk about or deal with that are now, by far, the chief offenders.Quote:
The issue before us now is the culture of our cops that condone murder of it's citizens,
I beg to differ, as this is a recurring problem and there is a verifiable history to back that up.Quote:
It's a fake issue. An isolated occurence does not amount to "the culture of our cops".
OK. Tell us about that history. How many cases of a black person being unjustifiably killed by a cop have happened this year? List them, please. And if you think that is a recurring problem, then how can you be silent about the fact that for every black person murdered by a policeman, there are hundreds and hundreds of black people killed by other black people. Doesn't that qualify much, much more as a recurring problem?
You have TWO separate issues. Cops killing unarmed or non threatening citizens, matter of public record, and black on black crime, which is a local issue. Poverty breeds crime in some places, black or white. Are the root causes the same? I'll let you verify or gather what you need to form your own conclusions.
Very few in number.Quote:
Cops killing unarmed or non threatening citizens,
Deaths by the thousands.Quote:
black on black crime, which is a local issue.
Funny how the first one gets all the attention.
Is that the way you see it? Why? I see it in the contexts that cops should never murder abuse, or terrorize the citizen, without accountability. Just like any citizen that murders, terrorizes or abuses another citizen. Cops shouldn't be above the law. What? Their crimes should be swept under the rug and they should remain free? That's not my idea of serve and protect.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Bad enough criminals exist. We don't need criminal cops too.
No one has suggested that. Certainly I have not.Quote:
Their crimes should be swept under the rug and they should remain free? That's not my idea of serve and protect.
The dufus ain't happy with the protest.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...?ocid=msedgntp
And
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/in...?ocid=msedgntp
I don't think anyone is happy with the protests, also known as riots, or at least in some cases.
I'm for peaceful protests, not for riots, looting, burnings, or any acts of violence. I think there is a huge distinction between protests and riots, but realize one can turn to the other really fast.
Especially when the idiot in the White House encourages rioting by threatening the country with an armed military. The nutcase thinks he's in a movie as he struts around the historic church looking for a photo op. The bible he was holding is hilarious. I'm surprised it didn't burn his hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
I figured that to be the case.Quote:
I'm for peaceful protests, not for riots, looting, burnings, or any acts of violence.
Trump is a well know idiot, i don't know why we focus on this antics, bored i guess
After blasting governors for being weak, the dufus broke up peaceful protesters for a photo op with a bible in front of a church across from the WH. The church bishop was outraged.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ep...cid=spartanntp
Were those the "peaceful protesters" who tried to burn said church?
Why would you assume they were? Can't separate peaceful protests from criminal actions?
The people trying to burn the church were hardly peaceful. I can't blame the pres for clearing out the protesters after the events of the past few days. You never know who might be in a crowd like that, even though most of them were no doubt there for peaceful purposes. I thought it was a nice gesture to support the church. As even your article points out, many religious leaders were supportive.
Riots and looting in New Orleans were quickly controlled when the military rolled into town . Same during the Rodney King riots . The President has to authority under the Insurrection Act to deploy Federal troops when local authorities are unwilling or able to control the mob. I'm guessing you don't have an issue with LBJ deploying the Alabama National Guard in 1965 against George Wallace's refusal to deploy them ;or when Ike deployed troops to Little Rock Ark .to enforce the Brown v Board of Education decision.Quote:
Especially when the idiot in the White House encourages rioting by threatening the country with an armed military.
This is how I see it . 1968 the country was reeling from riots and assassinations . LBJ decided to bow out of the presidential race and the Dems decided to go with the establishment curmudgeon ... Humphrey ;who's fiery liberal spirit had been pretty much dashed by LBJ's record on defending civil society and law and order . He lost to the law and order candidate .
Yesterday Trump made himself the law and order candidate that the majority will vote for . Because the majority went into this united behind the idea that the murder of George Floyd was not being handled properly by the liberal government in Milwaukee . The nihilist Antifa sparked violent riots where there were peaceful protests . Local leadership in major blue cities have proven to be unwilling or unable to control this unruly agitating mob . It is a bunch of privileged white pajama boys who are living in their mamma's basement ;collecting their unemployment checks ;whining that they are expected to pay the loans they took out to get an advanced degree in community organizing who are the problem . You should be happy to see them get their heads busted open . But no ;Sandinista Bill calls out the police dept he runs because a cop pulled a gun on someone who had just thrown a brick at him.
It is very simple . the il duce's and Di Blasio's of this country have got to grow a spine . I mean seriously ; Sandinista Bill emptied out Rykers Island of convicts . He must have 10,000 empty cells to house the rioters he should be arresting . If they don't do it they will force Trump's hand . He served them notice yesterday .
You missed the point . The curfew came .... there was still a crowd ... they were dispersed with tear gas . And Trump walked through Lafayette Park to the church to demonstrate that the mob did not rule the streets .
The curfew had NOT come! The peaceful crowd was brutally dispersed with tear gas and mounted police and other weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Trump ordered the dispersal because of a PHOTO OP!!
you are playing semantics... the crowd was told to disperse by law enforcement.. they chose to ignore it ...law enforcement dispersed them . What was there 15 minutes left ? The crowd being in Lafayette park when they were there already sent a message they were not going to comply . They expected the DC authorities to be as fecklessly spineless as they had been the night before . But a new sheriff is in town . Notice served .
I'll go with this account of events because I watched it. The civil war continues, right vs might.Quote:
Originally Posted by Athos
Yesterday in NYC ,Macys was sacked by the mob . Interesting how they left the Nike store alone .
Today I am hearing that a truck with bricks was prepositioned on Hamilton Ave. for the peaceful protest . Sandinista Bill chastised a cop who pulled a gun on a "peaceful protester " who had thrown a brick at him . Even il duce is fed up with Di Blasio's lame performance. I may be wrong . But I doubt there will be much of that in the nation's Capital tonight .
Btw ; Sandinista Bill's daughter Chiara was arrested Saturday when she refuse to move while she blocked traffic at an area where NYC police vans were being fire bombed . In a demonstration of equal justice ,she was given a desk appearance ticket and sent home to Gracie Mansion.
I'm sure that will bring down the ire of the "equal justice" crowd on this site.Quote:
In a demonstration of equal justice ,she was given a desk appearance ticket and sent home to Gracie Mansion.
You don't believe in equal justice?
I actually do believe in it. That's why I'm more concerned about the 150 black Americans murdered every week than I am about the one black American killed by a cop. Both are terrible situations, but equal justice should apply to everyone. That's why the mayor's daughter should have been treated like everyone else.
If you have been listening to the protesters or black people in general, then you would know we have been protesting for decades about police brutality, unequal justice, housing discrimination, institutional racism and a host of things, but this latest killing by cops is not just one incident, but the last in a string of many, with nothing being done about it. So be concerned about the weekly death toll, but also be aware of what THIS protest is about. I doubt if the mayors daughter was the only one given an appearance ticket and sent home, but for now I'm picking my battles and refuse to be side tracked by other issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I believe in equal justice . I want justice for Italia Kelly who was gunned down by peaceful protesters . I want justice or Dave Patrick Underwood ;the Federal Protective Service officer who died Friday night after suffering from a gunshot wound in Oakland amid protests. Quid pro Joe will be doing a photo op attending George Floyd's funeral . Will he also attend the hero Underwood's ?
Would we be here at all if cops hadn't murdered Floyd in broad daylight caught on tape? Or the woman in Ky, or the jogger in Atlanta (Ex cop who should have known better) that was swept under a rug for months? I don't think so.
We all do. But I think you're missing the greater point. I don't think you're a racist, tom, unlike Judas who lacks only the white sheet and pointed hat.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I can certainly accept the validity of your list of protests, but notably absent from your list is the 1,000 or so innocent black people killed by another black person for every one unjustly killed by a policeman, or the tens of thousands of black children killed in abortion, or the counter-productive practice of out of wedlock births, or the injustice of trapping black children in terrible schools, or the rampant epidemic of criminal activity amongst young black men, or the disintegration of the black family structure. And the great news is that the black community could fix those problems all by themselves. No racist white group could stop them, and the progress would be enormous. But no, it's too easy to talk about the extremely isolated cases of police brutality since that requires no change amongst those doing the talking.Quote:
If you have been listening to the protesters or black people in general, then you would know we have been protesting for decades about police brutality, unequal justice, housing discrimination, institutional racism and a host of things,
If they had merely been killed by a non-white, you can be sure that no one would ever have known about it.Quote:
Or the woman in Ky, or the jogger in Atlanta...that was swept under a rug for months?
Notably absent from your list is the destruction of an entire group of people by 400 years of horrific treatment, including 200 years of the worst abject slavery in history, followed by a century of lynchings and Jim Crow, to the present day of systemic institutional discrimination. These things are not important enough for you to mention.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Your comment on abortion is even stranger. You weep for an aborted fetus who, if it had survived, you accept it spending an eternity in torturous punishment in an eternal hell. It would have been far better for that fetus to be aborted than to be born - according to your own belief.
Even in the face of your stated prejudice against the group?Quote:
And the great news is that the black community could fix those problems all by themselves.
Except for the racist group that's been successfully doing so for 4 centuries.Quote:
No racist white group could stop them,
"Extremely isolated cases of police brutality"? Are you serious? Your ignorance is glaring. Spend time in any black ghetto in this country and then come back and tell us how extremely isolated bad treatment, including brutality, is in black neighborhoods.Quote:
But no, it's too easy to talk about the extremely isolated cases of police brutality.
Why don't you accept the testimony of ordinary African-Americans who are quick to comment how police act in their neighborhoods? - I think we know why you don't.
For the record - Blaming the black community 100% for their difficulties is absurd. Equally to blame are the historic forces that have been lined up against them for centuries, and ongoing.
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