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Trump taunts China

Once again the buffoon in the White House has threatened to destroy world peace. This time he has theatened to cut off all trade with China. it might have been a casual comment in an interview, a maybe, but the Chinese has responded with venom

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work...1143695acbc320

Chinese response is if you do that, we will take Taiwan. I can't really see the connection but in the Chinese mind Taiwanese freedom is directly associated with trade with China. Trump bluffed China into trade concessions, is this latest attack more of the same?

Now Clete you know it's silly season and the dufus has to drum up his base with hate talk. The Chinese know that so they give it back just like they get it. He got no trade concessions from them so far, I mean none, so don't fall for the spin. He just wants to keep the farmers from rioting on the WH lawn, or worse dumping his a$$ for screwing up their money for nothing.

They are really sensitive about this pandemic though, and rightfully so.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Now Clete you know it's silly season and the dufus has to drum up his base with hate talk. The Chinese know that so they give it back just like they get it. He got no trade concessions from them so far, I mean none, so don't fall for the spin. He just wants to keep the farmers from rioting on the WH lawn, or worse dumping his a$$ for screwing up their money for nothing.

They are really sensitive about this pandemic though, and rightfully so.

Well you might think the Chinese engage in rhetoric, but the reality on this side of the world is different

When a saber is rattled, they rattle back, but make no mistake they are very capable of more, and will exploit any weakness that serves their interest, and press any advantage to gain leverage.

Probably freaks them out we didn't dump this fool when we had a chance, but no doubt hope the elections produce a better outcome. They play the long game Clete.

Ok what do you do with a country of 1.4 billion people that controls nuclear weapons and also controls a great deal of the world's commerce that deliberately withheld information about a virus that originated in their country that ended up infecting over 2 million people and counting ... and will kill over a half million people .. including 85,000 Americans and counting ... Ended travel from Wuhan in their country but allowed travel from Wuhan outside their country in what was an apparent and deliberate attempt to create a worldwide pandemic (even if there is a remote possibility that the virus did not originate in their wmd lab in Wuhan ) ?

You tell me what we are supposed to do with that ? The economic damage to the world has yet to be calculated ;but it measure with the 1930s global collapse . In NYC this attack was far worse than the 9-11 ;and you know how we responded to that . We are still fighting jihadistan .

Candidate Michael Bloomberg said the Chinese government was a consensual government and he was arranging financial liquidity to companies that we know are controlled by the central communist government in China . Bill Gates and the GREAT SCIENTIST Tony Fauci said they thought the Chinese response to C-9 was proper . Our government agencies NIH and CDC diverted funds to help set up the labs in Wuhan . It makes it hard to point an accusing finger when so many Americans are embedded in the Chinese web (and let's not bring up the apparent Democrat nominee and his family Chinese corruption) .

The American people know the truth . I would find it very hard to believe the American people are going to accept the Chinese sneak attack and go back to status quo ante .Common sense Americans knew before this that China was a foe and a threat . That is one of the reasons Trump was elected . We the people know that the Wuhan virology lab was the source of the virus . WE the people know the Chinese covered that up . WE the people know that the Chinese took a hit and decided to share the pain with the rest of the world . Our conduct is going to change regarding relations with China . I don't know that the swamp critters know that yet . But they will soon enough . WE the people know we are too dependent on the supply chain from China for critical and strategic goods . That is going to change .

The Chinese have been telling our allies that we are not dependable allies . Well just watch us . We have Taiwan's back . I once had my doubts ;but not anymore . And that goes for Japan and S Korea ;and the Philippines ;Vietnam ,India and yes ......even Australia .

While I can agree with much of what you say to a great extent, the dufus is not the guy to guide us through this relationship with China. In fact if he hasn't shown in the last 3 years to be the absolute wrong guy for this and any other foreign and domestic endeavor, then woe be to us. I mean doesn't say much that we elected a person of his background in the first place and we the people are to blame.

You don't hire a hammer to build a computer and that's exactly what we did in a great zeal to prove whatever. We the people screwed this up big time and will have to fix it big time. Like you said, the Chinese as an example have their ways and being dependent on them for anything is rather foolish given they have a stick as big as ours, but the world is to small to ignore them or anyone else for that matter, and a true leader deals with them where common interest lies and resolutely where it does not.

Can you blame other countries for scratching their heads and wondering WHAT THE FREAK?

umm it was the emperor's policies that had our allies in the region scratching their head . (well the Bushes and Clintoons were patsies also) The emperor "pivoted " to Asia and created another foreign policy fiasco for the US. In his time China strengthened their territorial claims in the South China Sea unchecked . In his efforts to improve relations with the Chinese he alienated our allies in the region . It was during the emperor's watch that the Chinese told our friends the US was no longer reliable allies and they should hitch onto the Chinese train before it is too late .

Wrap your head around the Chinese being formidable within there own part of the world (And well beyond) and we would be very foolish to directly militarily confront them. Look at a map, the South China Sea is in there backyard, not ours. We have hardware so do they.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLI8KE6Ctbw

The South China sea is not their lake . All the surrounding countries have territorial claims We do not make claims to the resources of the nations in the Gulf of Mexico. And we have never disputed the right of China and Russia to navigate those seas. Most of the commerce that travels by sea pass through territory China is making claim to . It is outrageous and intollerable and cannot stand .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The South China sea is not their lake . All the surrounding countries have territorial claims We do not make claims to the resources of the nations in the Gulf of Mexico. And we have never disputed the right of China and Russia to navigate those seas. Most of the commerce that travels by sea pass through territory China is making claim to . It is outrageous and intollerable and cannot stand .

Yeh and the Pacific is not your lake. You project power with aircraft carriers, the Chinese project power with something more permanent. They are going through their colonial period now, whereas much of the world is post colonial. No doubt the Chinese have declared the South China Sea as terra nullius and see it as their manifest destiny to exploit it. Has a familiar ring to it, doesn't it. You exploit the Caribean for resources, how is it different? Some better relations with your neighbours, perhaps

glad you admit that the premise of your post is an untruth . It is the Chinese that threaten world peace .

Yeah Clete we're peacekeepers. Defending the little dogs against the big bad wolf!

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Originally Posted by tomder55

We have Taiwan's back.

We didn't under Nixon when it counted and he bailed on Taiwan.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Yeah Clete we're peacekeepers. Defending the little dogs against the big bad wolf!

you are just the alpha male in the pack over the mountain. you are peacekeepers, tell that to the people of iraq

Don't have to, they are a major trading partner in the ME.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

Don't have to, they are a major trading partner in the ME.

Only because you coerced them into it and you have few friends there

They want capital and a good economy most of them, since they aren't threatened by ISIS as much though small factions remain. We have those here in America, they are loony right wingers and everybody has some version of these nutjobs.

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We didn't under Nixon when it counted and he bailed on Taiwan.

loll 47 years ago. And all Nixon did was open up China . Our policy regarding Taiwan has been strategically vague since the Communist takeover of China . But everyone knows the US will come to their defense . More likely they would give the ChiComs a nose bleed without our direct intervention .
.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

loll 47 years ago. And all Nixon did was open up China . Our policy regarding Taiwan has been strategically vague since the Communist takeover of China

You couldn't be more wrong. For over 20 years the US defended Taiwan from Chinese aggression by the US Navy patrolling the Straits of Formosa and by stationing thousands of US troops on Taiwan. When Nixon carried out his rapproachement with the Chinese, the US bailed on its defensive agreement with Taiwan and soon removed all US military from the island.

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But everyone knows the US will come to their defense.

I don't think "everyone knows that". With Trump at the helm, he's liable to send a love letter to the Chinese if they take over Taiwan.

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More likely they (the US) would give the ChiComs a nose bleed without our direct intervention.

Spoken like a true cold warrior. Except for the sad fact of Trump in the WH could barely manage a war considering how badly he is managing a virus.

I think what we are seeing in this complicated world is the dufus feeding his base, at the sacrifice of doing his job in an effective manner. Not saying China is a victim of that at all, nor absolving them of anything, they have much to answer for, but obviously they have had enough of being a verbal whipping boy of a fools personal agenda, and must save face some kind of way. Bad enough the world blames them for the current crisis that disrupts us, maybe rightfully so, we don't know at this point, despite the emotional backlash of being helpless in it's wake, but listening to the drone of constant personal badmouthing has to be downright infuriating. Nobody but a sychophant cowers to those bully tactics so understandable China rattles it's saber at such saber rattling.

That the dufus exploits this emotion for personal gain though is pretty despicable, considering his own performance thus far.

Trump is not alone in appointing blame for the pandemic on the Chinese . Angela Merkel has called out the Chinese on their lack of transparency ;and she is under increased pressure to take stronger stands against them . A German newspaper figured out the costs of their negligence that Germany must bear and made a mock up bill of £130BN bill for 'coronavirus damages' to submit to the Chinese .

Relations between China and the European Union have soured over the Communist country’s mishandling of the pandemic with the EU now emphasizing more autonomy,There have been calls for the EU to suspend Chinese takeover of European businesses which have increased during the crisis .
“Over these months China has lost Europe,” said Reinhard Buetikofer, a German lawmaker who chairs the European Parliament’s delegation for relations with China.Leaders of the European Council put a ”roadmap” together to decrease dependency on China. The document calls on members to “invest in strategic value chains to reduce over dependency . The same is true in China's neighborhood. India is taking steps to restrict foreign direct investment from countries that share a land boundary with India...a clear swipe at China .
India is engaging with other countries in the Indo-Pacific making bilateral agreements and through Quad Plus (
India, US, Australia, Japan, South Korea, New Zealand and Vietnam) to counter China and to blunt or balance China’s future influence in institutions like the World Health Organization.

. In Australia, Japan, Indonesia, South Korea, and India, views toward China were already at historic lows prior to the crisis.

This skepticism of China will only deepen as these countries recall the initial suppression of information and draconian measures in Wuhan, where the virus originated, and observe Chinas attempt to rewrite history .

All that is true, and I blame most if not a vast majority of Chinese actions on the free market especially here, kissing Chinese butts over the years in a zeal to make a buck. This has allowed China to enjoy eating the cake, and demanding more. We see how that's working out, and it was LEGAL.

Now that doesn't diminish my disgust at the way the dufus has handled things the last three years, and lied about it. It reinforces it. Add to that unbridled and crony capitalism, to say I'm disappointed is an understatement. Didn't the orange dude say he could fix this stuff?

We have a lot to lose if he can't keep his word, which he never has.

Strange that Trump's words haven't backfired in trade but China threatens others, such as Australia for demanding answers

I would be interested in more elaboration of that point Clete, as make no mistake my view that China is as big a bully as you'll ever see, bar none. They have little choice but to be.

I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.”
– Ralph Waldo Emerson

Clete the Aussies are living in the bed they made . You try to have it both ways maintaining a strong US alliance and becoming an economic vassal state to China .I'll say your government may have learned their lessons and they are becoming much more vocal standing up to an ever increasing assertive China.

As for Trump ,if I find any fault in his policies has been his desire to look inward with his America First agenda. If anything we should be more assertive in taking the lead in the Indo-china region ;forging stronger alliances with the nations that China would attempt to dominate .

When I start agreeing with a conservative I get scared! When I wholeheartedly agree, I get terrified!

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.6...2&pid=3.1&rm=2

I'm suppose to be a bleeding heart liberal!

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.MNvedE...pr=1.1&pid=1.7

China will only change (or any of those super power would be dictators), when they get out numbered and surrounded. A unified front. They are terrified of being shamed and blamed for this crisis. Our own dufus included.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Clete the Aussies are living in the bed they made . You try to have it both ways maintaining a strong US alliance and becoming an economic vassal state to China .I'll say your government may have learned their lessons and they are becoming much more vocal standing up to an ever increasing assertive China.

As for Trump ,if I find any fault in his policies has been his desire to look inward with his America First agenda. If anything we should be more assertive in taking the lead in the Indo-china region; forging stronger alliances with the nations that China would attempt to dominate .

Like your President Obama we pivoted to Asia long ago, recognising our proximity to both India and China represented opportunity and we made the first overtures to bring down the bamboo curtain. Unfortunately, China looks on relationships as an either or thing, whereas we seek a more open relationship. Our relationship with the US has proven problematical, since, they have proven fickle partners, withdrawing support for local manufacturing on a number of occasions. If you want to forge stronger alliances, do so with us

I'm in . How's your supply of rare earth minerals ? I already drink your wine.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I'm in . How's your supply of rare earth minerals ? I already drink your wine.

We have lots of rare earths just waiting to be dug up, The wine may be a bit smoke tainted this year but much will probably be diverted from China

I don't think the Chinese will take any disruption of their wine supply chain very lightly. You Aussies should tread carefully there.

Do you think they would rather drink our wine than eat, they have slapped a punitive tarriff on Barley and reduced imports of our beef and they are thinking up more ways to hurt us. One of our politicians have suggested total ban on exports of foodstuffs to China including baby formula

You go Aussies !!! Sell us more lamb !! I could eat lamb every day and never tire of it .

The flock number are down because of the drought, lamb is very expenive here, too much exported

Money is no object for the Tomder.

what else do I have to spend it on ?
No businesses are open and I can't eat out . So I use the money I would at a restaurant and but the expensive cuts . I will gladly pay premium for a rack of lamb.

Now we have to protect the fishermen during this salmon season in Alaska . May they be safe and virus free as they harvest this years bounty .

Wish I could get some of them jumbo shrimp from Australia. Might have to migrate.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Wish I could get some of them jumbo shrimp from Australia. Might have to migrate.

jumbo shrimp? you mean king prawns? you surely can buy them in a frozen slab. Yes, come on over, our chinese migration program, otherwise known as foreign students, is on hold. We need some yankee money to balance the property market out

I might have to learn the language before I get there. Slabs are ribs here Clete, not swimps. king crabs ain't prawns. You guys have good food no matter what you call it, so we may have to hire you to translate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

I might have to learn the language before I get there. Slabs are ribs here Clete, not swimps. king crabs ain't prawns. You guys have good food no matter what you call it, so we may have to hire you to translate.

No you know the lingo, just think a little. A slab is a block of frozen prawns, say ten kilo. Crabs are something else, we have blue crabs here and muddies too and Morton Bay bugs which are a cray. nough translatin, none of that srimp on the barbie crap, that is just for the tourists, we put T-bones on the barbie

That sounds great, no problem adjusting to the cuisine, but gotta have the ribs beef and pork, but T-bones will do quite well!