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Trump's delay/inaction/misinformation in the beginning was a contributing factor to the record number of US deaths from COVID-19. I wonder how many - other than the one confirmed.
Amazing how Trump seems to channel Mussolini with his poses so like the WW2 dictator.
The dufus may well have inspired the actions that couple in Arizona tragically undertook, and we can argue his culpibility level, but what's evident 2 months later is his incompetence and the false hope he feeds us in what is a logistical nightmare. I mean where's the honesty to convey real optimism and not feed us the false hope his exaggerations conveys.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/th...cid=spartanntp
We still haven't tested nearly enough, nor have a uniform national policy since he cedes that to those governors he quacks to all the time according to him. The big cities are a disaster at this point, and those rural areas will be worse. The numbers just don't lie, and they are going up everywhere. So the dufus cannot be held accountable for what we are experiencing, but we can comment on what he has done about it.
This dude, in repeating what the scientist say, would be the most optimistic death toll projections, actually thinks 1/2 hundred thousand is a good outcome! Maybe it is compared to millions, but damn, that's some scary stuff to already take credit for, if he can achieve it which is debatable given he doesn't/hasn't/ and probably never will fact check very well.
Get that fool off the TV in the evenings and let the experts answer the questions as he show isn't ready for prime time. LOL, he laments the mess he was left and how he fixed it, and it's karma I suppose that he will have to fix a broken health system and the economy on his own this time.
On what happens NOW will he be judged!
lol This was all happening when the Dems were 24-7 impeachment Y'all are 20-20 hindsight . The blame lies SOLEY with the Red Chinese scumbags covering up what was happening in Wuhan with the WHO complicity . When Trump was proactively ordering travel bans from China ,the Dems were debating resolutions that called his actions racist . Your partisanship at this time is going to expose your side for what they are . .
ZAP! WRONG! You sound just like Moscow Mitch McConnell. The impeachment ended six weeks before Trump took any action to plan how to handle the virus. Then he began with really dumb comments - "a hoax", "a miracle will remove it", "it will go to zero in a week", and more like that. Note how drastically he has changed his tune after he realized his re-election was in jeopardy. The 20-20 hindsight - the FALSE 20-20 hindsight - is all yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Let's hope so. My "side" is for the truth, always has been.Quote:
Your partisanship at this time is going to expose your side for what they are . .
"Proclamation on Suspension of Entry as Immigrants and Nonimmigrants of Persons who Pose a Risk of Transmitting 2019 Novel Coronavirus" on January 31, 2020.
Feb 5 Trump acquited . http://www.cnn.com/2020/02/05/politi...tal/index.html
Nice spin Tom, but facts is facts
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/th...-restrictions/
Won't comment on his impeachment acquittal, he did what he did and got away with it thanks to Moscow Mitch and his sham court of sycophants. That's a whole different conversation and we must remember Clinton set the tone for working through trials and tribulations.
impeachment, not that old chessnut again, Trump was distracted, now he is just confused by reality
Tom is rarely concerned about facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Nice link!
Maybe all of you complainers can show us back in January when you were posting that we had better do something about this new Chinese virus. For that matter, maybe you can show us where Pelosi or Biden were telling us what to do at that point. Or where all the liberal dems on this board stood up and cheered when Trump stopped flights from China. The truth is, this virus came basically out of nowhere and has, all in all, been handled pretty well. Not perfectly, but well. I'm not sure how anyone could be prepared for something like this. I do know that cheap criticism is not helpful.
Was your blatant misrepresentation of the views of Aquinas part of that great concern your "side" has for the truth? You need to be careful with what you post. Some of us remember your past posts quite well. How about your claim that Matthew contained 660 of Mark's 661 verses? Was that the truth?Quote:
My "side" is for the truth, always has been.
The lack of testing for everybody is not a cheap criticism, nor is states having a bidding war for resources especially ventilators a cheap criticism, or having an aircraft carrier full of sick military personnel a cheap criticism, and saying the dufus has a bigmouth as he gives false information a cheap criticism. No JL, it's a mark of his total incompetence and still he dithers not telling governors to shut their states down NOW and save lives.
Your first three comments are just foolish. It would be like criticizing the Japanese in 2011 for not having already evacuated the areas devastated by the tsunami. If we had had a six months warning of the coming virus then sure, those criticisms would be valid, but to think that our country should be able to come up with 300 million test kits in three months from a standing start is ridiculous. No other country has tested everybody. That's why it all is, in reality, cheap criticism.
He has not, to my knowledge, given out false information, and it's not his place to tell governors to shut their states down. It's easy for you to sit in Texas and theorize, but when you talk about shutting down entire states, then you are talking about shutting down entire economies, and since, to the great surprise of lifelong liberals, money actually does not grow on trees, and since all of these treatments for the sick do have to be paid for, then destroying the economy is really not a very good idea. Destroying the economy will cost lives as well. Destroying the economy will cost people their jobs, homes, and property. There is a lot to consider here.
It's just a symptom of irrational, unthinking TDS.
It figures you set such a low standard for performance that you compare the greatest nation in the world to other nations that don't come close to us. Wander what all that talking to governors is accomplishing, if not to coordinate the needs of the states to benefit us effectively without a trade war between the states? A commander in chief that doesn't protect his troops is a foolish cheap criticism? Who is the one accepting mediocracy now?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
The lack of testing for everybody is not a cheap criticism, nor is states having a bidding war for resources especially ventilators a cheap criticism, orhaving an aircraft carrier full of sick military personnel a cheap criticism,
So I'm the one that's foolish to expect more from our great nation?
YUP, that's what I'm talking about and Texas is not shutdown while your state just did, so while you holler about the economy, think of the millions of the dead people who will need to be mourned if you don't shut it down NOW, prolonging the agony for months to come.Quote:
He has not, to my knowledge, given out false information, and it's not his place to tell governors to shut their states down. It's easy for you to sit in Texas and theorize, but when you talk about shutting down entire states, then you are talking about shutting down entire economies, and since, to the great surprise of lifelong liberals, money actually does not grow on trees, and since all of these treatments for the sick do have to be paid for, then destroying the economy is really not a very good idea. Destroying the economy will cost lives as well. Destroying the economy will cost people their jobs, homes, and property. There is a lot to consider here.
Unrealistic give the situation with this pandemic. I could say a very foolish comment, but I doubt you would understand the criticism, since you never have before. You're great at making excuses why you under perform though.Quote:
It's just a symptom of irrational, unthinking TDS.
No, you're being foolish to expect the impossible. You might as well criticize Trump for not putting a manned spaceship on Neptune.Quote:
So I'm the one that's foolish to expect more from our great nation?
Our state is not shutdown. The county I live in is shutdown. And again, it's easy for you to sit in Texas and plead for the dying while never considering the dying that will occur if we end up with a devastated economy. Your mentioning of millions of dead people is hyperbole on steroids.Quote:
YUP, that's what I'm talking about and Texas is not shutdown while your state just did, so while you holler about the economy, think of the millions of the dead people who will need to be mourned if you don't shut it down NOW, prolonging the agony for months to come.
Kind of like you did with the Obama economy? You were just fine with the weakest recovery from a recession in a hundred years, and that despite a doubling of the national debt, but you want to rant and rave about Trump. Yep. A sure symptom of TDS.Quote:
Unrealistic give the situation with this pandemic. I could say a very foolish comment, but I doubt you would understand the criticism, since you never have before. You're great at making excuses why you under perform though.
The CDC dropped the ball starting with dismantling of the WH team assembled years ago for such emergencies after having been through such an emergencies. Such an early warning team would have been invaluable for a quicker response. Gutting the layers of government such as Homeland Security also played a huge role the slow and inadequate, so yeah let's criticize the dufus for his actions that left us wholly unprepared when we should have been.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Oh that's right, your governor like mine is dithering around the edges of taking precautions, making them 2 of 20 states that like Florida, will see a sharp rise in infected rates and bring the health care facilities to a brimming capacity that extends the recovery rate far beyond it's ability to cope effectively. Yeah money doesn't grow on trees and neither do humans, and if you think about it what are the effects of the economy with sick workers infecting not just the workplace, but customers and consumers too. Of course conservatives don't think that far ahead, so they don't see it coming until it smacks them up side their heads.Quote:
Our state is not shutdown. The county I live in is shutdown. And again, it's easy for you to sit in Texas and plead for the dying while never considering the dying that will occur if we end up with a devastated economy. Your mentioning of millions of dead people is hyperbole on steroids.
Ignoring what is happening already, and think it won't happen to you is as foolish as it gets.
Weakest, but steady and growing for sure when the dufus came along, and hopefully strong enough to weather this corona storm if the dufus doesn't keep screwing it up. Libs saw him coming, and have tried to get rid of this sucker which despite the obvious they hold onto like a dog with a bone. LOL, maybe Obama's economics were the weakest recovery from a recession, but the dufus will have more dead bodies on his hand than Obama did it appears.Quote:
Kind of like you did with the Obama economy? You were just fine with the weakest recovery from a recession in a hundred years, and that despite a doubling of the national debt, but you want to rant and rave about Trump. Yep. A sure symptom of TDS.
He didn't start this thing but his response to it is HIS to own whether he and conservatives like it or not.
Not true. https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...cs-eliminated/Quote:
The CDC dropped the ball starting with dismantling of the WH team assembled years ago for such emergencies after having been through such an emergencies.
If you find someone doing that, let us know.Quote:
Ignoring what is happening already, and think it won't happen to you is as foolish as it gets.
You think maybe that's because he's having to contend with something far more serious that anything Obama encountered? Are you counting the dead bodies from the H1N1 epidemic which Obama largely ignored for weeks and weeks?Quote:
but the dufus will have more dead bodies on his hand than Obama did it appears.
I have no prescrption to the post sorry, but read it through other sources and of course I view it differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213201124
ANDQuote:
Asked at a congressional hearing on March 11 whether it was a mistake to eliminate the office, Anthony S. Fauci, who runs the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, diplomatically said: “I wouldn’t necessarily characterize it as a mistake. I would say we worked very well with that office. It would be nice if the office was still there.”
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...y-leaves-admin
Quote:
The Post reported that Ziemer will not be replaced, and that his departure means that there is no single official at the highest levels of the administration who focuses only on global health security.st reported that Ziemer will not be replaced, and that his departure means that there is no single official at the highest levels of the administration who focuses only on global health security.
I did in previous post #14, those 19 states governors that have not acted. Forida just went shelter in place statewide.Quote:
If you find someone doing that, let us know.
I can easily concede this is a lot more daunting a challenge, but I stop short of the rest of your comparisons.Quote:
You think maybe that's because he's having to contend with something far more serious that anything Obama encountered? Are you counting the dead bodies from the H1N1 epidemic which Obama largely ignored for weeks and weeks?
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/tr...pandemic-spin/
So in other words, if they are not doing what you want, then they are irresponsible? Got it. BTW, our governor has enacted, but he has not put a "shelter in place" advisory for the entire state. I'm sure that same thing is true of many of those other states.Quote:
I did in previous post #14, those 19 states governors that have not acted.
" agreed that Trump’s travel restrictions bought the U.S. time to react," Oh my goodness, your article was complimentary of Trump's initial decision! It is, by the way, absolutely true that Obama did nothing for the first several weeks of the swine flu epidemic. This is contained in the following article. "The declaration, signed Friday night and announced Saturday, comes with the disease more prevalent than ever in the country and production delays undercutting the government's initial, optimistic estimates that as many as 120 million doses of the vaccine could be available by mid-October.Health authorities say more than 1,000 people in the United States, including almost 100 children, have died from the strain of flu known as H1N1, and 46 states have widespread flu activity. So far only 11 million doses of the vaccine have gone out to health departments, doctor's offices and other providers, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention officials." So rather than the estimate that 120 million doses of the vaccine would be available, there was only 10% of that. Hmm. I'm going to go way out on a limb and guess that you were not jumping up and down in criticism of Obama back then.
So even the wonderful (in your view) Mr. Obama waited months before declaring a national emergency and had problems with vaccine production. Now that's all fine by me, but it's frustrating to see people like you give Obama a free pass and then practically wet your pants in being critical of Trump for having what is basically the same problems except that he moved MUCH more quickly and is facing a greater threat.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/33459423/n.../#.XoTbRIhKjIU
Don't know why you would be so frustrated at my opinion of the dufus, since for one seldom do I compare the two, and have been consistent with my objections to the dufus, he lies, cheats and steals, and is a big bully, all characteristics I think are deplorable. Frustrates me that you ACCEPT such behavior.
I have been consistently critical of Trump's lying and big mouth, just as I was consistently critical of Obama's lies about Benghazi. That's where you and I differ. I try to apply a standard consistently.
https://babylonbee.com/news/cnn-publ...hnsi2DCCRby4xc
>CHUCKLE<
Never heard you ever comment on a LIE the dufs has told, maybe I missed that.
His claim that Mexico would pay for the wall was outrageous from the outset. Now you claim he has lied about the CV, but I haven't seen evidence of that. Can you provide it?
>CHUCKLE<
facts :
January 11: Chinese media report the first known death from an illness originating in the Wuhan market. So now the news was out there But 4 days later ....
January 15: Madam Mim holds a vote to send articles of impeachment to the Senate. She had to stare down her caucus that was about to erupt in joyous ceremony on this "solemn day" She and House Dems celebrate the occasion in an elaborately staged spectacle ;signing the articles with 30 gold pens on a silver platter .She hands the pens out as souvenirs
January 21: The first person with coronavirus arrives in the United States from China, where he had been in Wuhan.
January 23: The House impeachment managers make their opening arguments for removing Trump.
January 23: China closes off the city of Wuhan completely to slow the spread of coronavirus to the rest of China.
January 30: Senators begin asking two days of questions of both sides in the president’s impeachment trial
January 30: The WHO declares a global health emergency as coronavirus continues to spread.
January 31: The Senate holds a vote on whether to allow further witnesses and documents in the impeachment trial.
January 31: Trump declares a national health emergency and imposes a ban on travel to and from China. Quid pro Joe calls Trump’s decision “hysterical xenophobia , and fear-mongering.”
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...-travel-from-c
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/b...ronavirus.html
February 2: The first death from coronavirus outside China is reported in the Philippines.
February 3: House impeachment managers begin closing arguments, calling Trump a threat to national security ;Not the Chinese ;not the coming virus ..
February 4: Trump talks about coronavirus in his SOTU Address Madam Mim has a hissy fit and rips up every page of his address .
February 5: The Senate votes to acquit Trump on both articles of impeachment,
.
February 5: House Democrats FINALLY address coronavirus in the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Asia.
Schmucky Schumer tweeted on Feb. 5, “The premature travel ban to and from China by the current administration is just an excuse to further his ongoing war against immigrants. There must be a check and Balance on these restrictions.”
Let's fast forward to March 7 , while the virus spreads ,the Dems in the House were debating the 'No Ban Act ' ,a bill that would've reversed Trump's ban. They pulled it off the floor on March 12 . ONE DAY AFTER THE NBA suspends it's season
March 11 Homeland Security Hearing when the world was well aware of the spread of the virus .During the hearing, acting Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Ken Cuccinelli explained he had advised the president to ban travel from China even though “the academic model suggested not to do that.” Cuccinelli further stressed that “the president was well aware” that the existing models recommended against a China travel ban but that Trump nonetheless instituted the ban. So how did the Dems on the committee react ? Well here is comments fromRep. Dina Titus of Nevada......https://www.c-span.org/video/?c48617...lip-dina-titusQuote:
I think you said earlier that you rejected the academic models that advised against travel boundaries or travel restrictions and gave the advice to the president to the contrary. What would make you think you could reject an academic model based on scientific study and evidence to advise the president? Was that like bad politics as opposed to good science? I think it probably [is that] this administration have very little respect for anything intellectual. And this is yet another example.
Sorry guys .If anyone was late to the game it was the Democrats in government who were obsessed with removing Trump from office .
No doubt Tal will take 5 minutes of his time to post a liberal rag's "fact checker "
Fantastic post, Tom. The quote from JB was priceless. "Quid pro Joe calls Trump’s decision “hysterical xenophobia , and fear-mongering.” If we elect that guy, then we will richly deserve what we get out of it.
@Tom, already posted my fact check of the dufus travel ban guess you missed it. That's okay though as even your links point out that he was a bit late and for the record nobody buys his distracted by impeachment claim. Luckily he had Moscow and the Sycophants to save his bacon.
@JL, I have said many times we deserve the president we have, and didn't mean that as a compliment to the USA.
Any briefing he has appeared in will do.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
It would be better if you would just say, "I have no idea."Quote:
Any briefing he has appeared in will do.
Apparently, you don't watch the briefings. I thought for sure Pence was going to deck him, or more likely kick him in a knee, today.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
your fact check org has no credibilty . Are you aware of the history of the Anneberg Center ? I'm sure you do since you worship one of it's past directors ,the emperor himself. Yes he became director through his patron Billl Ayers .The emperor as Senator made sure they were properly funded with government $$ through earmarks
Anyway liberal Journalist Ben Smith wrote of such groups like Fact Check that distort the truth that "they’re doing opinion journalism under pseudo-scientific banners, something that’s really corrosive to actual journalism, which if it’s any good is about reported fact in the first place” .
Anneberg funded Fact Check to the tune of almost $90 million before Fact Check began taking public donations . They are hopelessly left wing biased .
When asked about Trump's travel ban ,Dr. Anthony Fauci said that the purpose of the travel restrictions was to blunt the infection curve. When a reporter asked Fauci if Trump’s travel ban had helped, he responded, “It was the right public health call....If you look back early on, Chinese travelers who were infected seeded not only the United States but countries in Europe, including Italy.” And of course Trumps European travel ban March 12 blunted the spread of the disease from Europe also .
I don't know ;maybe you think we should still have open travel between the US and Italy .
Can anyone come up with a single specific instance of Trump lying at these press conferences? Something perhaps a tad more specific that someone wanting to kick him in the knee? And if you can't, and it certainly appears that you can't, then shouldn't you just admit that you don't have anything?Quote:
Apparently, you don't watch the briefings. I thought for sure Pence was going to deck him, or more likely kick him in a knee, today.
Things like this greatly diminish your liberal cause. You say Trump has been lying but have no idea how. The outrageous suggestion is made that Trump was directly responsible for the death of the elderly man. I would hope there would be some level of shame for these accusations. It is exactly why I conclude, correctly I think, that a hatred of Trump is what is really behind these charges. But perhaps you can come up with some specifics that will make me rethink my position. And no, trying to suggest that he lied about hydroxychloroquine won't get the job done.
Aha! You didn't watch, did you!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
This really gets old. You've got nothing so you try to act cute.Quote:
Aha! You didn't watch, did you!
Yup, this gets REAL old. You didn't watch (or notice) so you throw rocks (or Oxford commas?) at me.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I have no problem with the dufus travel ban, but it was more a closing the barn door after the horse got out move and he didn't lock the door, there were enough exemptions and exclusions to have enough free flow to further complicate things but in fairness much of that couldn't really be helped, as it was inevitable that Biz would get the shipments already planned and loaded and enroute. I suspect that would be true of all the world markets. To keep touting that as a glory point though without the details is but a blatant blow his own horn as usual, but if that's all he's got then that's all he got. Those perfect phone calls and perfect understanding of rocket science only works on conservatives who have little or no clue or just choose to ignore his misrepresentations.
Just the dufus being the dufus as he dismantles the functions of government to the useless and uncoordinated buearacracy the right has always said it was. He has said he wanted the states and not DC to set the pace, even during an emergency where everybody being on the same page is ever more crucial for the common good. Fortunately the dufus's surgeon general said the other day the fed guidelines was a call to the whole country to shut this thing down.
LOL Tom, sooner or later you will accept that liberals are as American as conservatives. I get you want a small weak central government with states doing their own thing, but during this pandemic shouldn't we be all on the same page fighting our common foe? Florida and Georgia joined the fight yesterday. The Georgia governor just found out the virus can be spread by people who are a symptomatic after all this time. Where has this dude been?
11 to go! Maybe the dufus will get off his arse now and get the feds involved in coordinating this thing for all our good and end the national chaos by taking charge with actions and not words in a briefing.
If you claim that Trump lied about the CV but you cannot provide any examples of him lying, then does that mean you were lying? If so, then wouldn't the two of you be just alike?
"He has said he wanted the states and not DC to set the pace." When did Trump say that about the CV?
" he dismantles the functions of government to the useless and uncoordinated buearacracy." He has not done that. You've already been shown that so why do you continue to advance that disproven idea?
Not even close JL, but what's more to the point if YOU cannot tell when he's lying then wouldn't that make you a dufus too? Ever try giving evidence to a dufus? To be fair maybe you have dufus derangement syndrome and will believe any lie he tells whether it can be proved or not. I don't envy you since after 8 years of Obama derangement syndrome, and decades of HC derangement syndrome, you have to be pretty screwed up.
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/4e94b...fit=max&dpr=2&
Do I have to go back to the first days he became president
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-popular-vote-
Or more recent ones
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/11/polit...est/index.html
Geez guy he has told tens of thousand in 3 years and you want a list? That's messed up on so many levels.
Why is it that when you get called out for saying things which you cannot prove, you always resort to name calling? I simply have asked you to verify a statement you made about Trump lying about the CV. If you can't do it, and it certainly seems you can't, then wouldn't an honorable person simply admit to his mistake rather than calling others names?
"Obama derangement syndrome". As they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
See second link which obviously was added while you were posting. Forget being flattered dude, derangement syndrome applies to many cases in regard to right wing conservatives.
The topic was Trump lying about the CV. The first link is irrelevant to the topic. The second one is more on target, though many of those are more Trump just having a big mouth as opposed to intentionally lying. Still, it was on target, and it is mystifying why you simply cannot back up your statement from the beginning without all the name calling. That's a huge part of our cultural problem right now, the inability of so many people to hold a rational conversation without engaging in temper tantrums and vitriol. In that respect, I think you are much more like Trump than you would care to admit.
It is in widespread use nowhere but in your mind.Quote:
derangement syndrome applies to many cases in regard to right wing conservatives.
Nuff said, I'll leave you to figure it out rather than explain the obvious that you MISSED, or dismissed, or didn't want to understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
It's not name calling if it's true and you and the dufus have much more in common that I do for sure. Maybe we all share a stubbornness in what we believe, but that's okay.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Your usual answer when you don't have a clue.Quote:
I'll leave you to figure it out rather than explain the obvious that you MISSED, or dismissed, or didn't want to understand.
So it's name calling when everyone else does it, but not when you do it. Got it.Quote:
It's not name calling if it's true
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