Ask Me Help Desk - Bail Out and stimulus BS

Bail Out and stimulus BS

For the record ;I opposed the bailouts and stimulus of 2008-9 and I opposed new bailouts and stimulus attempts now . Now we are talking bailouts because the Saudi's and the Russians can't play nice in the sand box and because there is an outbreak of the sniffles. I could not claim to be a true conservative and argue that there should be a big government solution to every problem. And that includes and irrational pandemic of fear . Want something to fear ? Fear a government that grabs your money and gives it to someone else on the pretext of a perceived "crisis" .

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...93&oe=5EA6DC95

yes it is all media hype

Wall Street seems to take the flu and oil wars seriously. I thought most capitalists did too. I guess we let the markets dictate the response eh Tom? You know how this goes, as we get deeper into this thing the states will do what they do, and if the fed doesn't help out, all you conservatives will get left in the dust of negative economic tidal wave that follows a massive shutdown. NY might weather the storm, but can Kansas, or Mississippi? We haven't even felt the full extent of the Chinese shutdown yet, but we will, and you know it.

Maybe it is media hype, but the next month or so will bring even the most conservatives to reality I think. The trickle down will be tested, and so will conservatives who say do nothing. Who you gonna call when your economy gets shutdown for a month or TWO? What are you gonna do when your job says stay home we got no customers?

I'm sure though you think once this media hoax is exposed things go back to the way it was without doing anything but business as usual right? I think you get outvoted on that stimulus package Tom. Nobody will forget who did what if this isn't a hoax either.

the government cant control irrational fear . Besides fireside chats the government ususally does more harm than good . Show me the Bear Stern in this case ? What should've been a small recession lasted time lasted almost a decade as
we counted on the government to fix the economy with stupid pump priming .The
emperor for 2 terms called it the new normal.

Are we talking the government or the stock market? Where'd those trillions of dollars go when they lost all those points this week?

Talaniman: Its what I said ALL ALONG: Every so many years, Wall Street has a fit and a "BLACK PERIOD" and these are "design behaviors" and the end game of these eruption is to RAID THE RETIREMENT FUNDS AND THE 401Ks! Its damned obvious for anyone who is looking. THERE ARE NO FURNACES BURNING MONEY THIS WEEK! SOMEONE IS MAKING TONS AND TONS OF MONEY!

As far as the Russian-Saudi Oil Riff: The media is trying to make the Russians out to be the bad guys: NOT TRUE! The filthy Saudis are the bad guys in this: Obama used the Saudis by asking them to up production in order to hurt the Russian economy: The Russians have good reason not to trust the Wahabi Saudis!

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Talaniman: Its what I said ALL ALONG: Every so many years, Wall Street has a fit and a "BLACK PERIOD" and these are "design behaviors" and the end game of these eruption is to RAID THE RETIREMENT FUNDS AND THE 401Ks! Its damned obvious for anyone who is looking. THERE ARE NO FURNACES BURNING MONEY THIS WEEK! SOMEONE IS MAKING TONS AND TONS OF MONEY!

You accusing rich guys of stealing from everybody they can? Or is it protecting their wealth that they already stole from everybody else?

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As far as the Russian-Saudi Oil Riff: The media is trying to make the Russians out to be the bad guys: NOT TRUE! The filthy Saudis are the bad guys in this: Obama used the Saudis by asking them to up production in order to hurt the Russian economy: The Russians have good reason not to trust the Wahabi Saudis!

The Saudis are just as ruthless as the Russians and nobody should trust either of them! Do so at your own peril.

Dictator and tyrant societies have distinct advantage over elected societies, they can manipulate the money and not lose a dime off the backs of their populations. OOPS we have the same thing going here rich guys can make MO'MONEY off the backs of the working population too.

Can't trust them either I guess!

As far as Wall Street goes ;they panic when someone sneezes . I never thought that main stream America would be so weak . Tips for people wanting to invest . It is a good time to buy when there is a run on toilet paper . This consolidation of stocks at lower numbers is a great buy opportunity . There is no way the economy dropped that fast in a couple days . The underlying strength of the economy is sound . And when this irrational fear passes there will be a V shaped rebound ....... assuming the government doesn't do something stupid like porkulus 2020 .

Let the Saudis and the Russians duke it out over the scraps of the energy market . USA rules and is the future of the energy supply ..... assuming the government doesn't do something stupid like the Green New Deal .

tomder55: FINALLY SOME RATIONAL THOUGHT! You have verbalized/articulated what I was thinking but couldn't wordsmith! Its all fear mongering....the CHAOS SOWEERS, like Soros and his ilk are looking for the openings to try and muck-up the economy and get Trump out of Office: George Soros really needs to become a CIA target (if we can ever get the CIA to, once again, become an organization that supports U.S. interests).

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Originally Posted by tomder55

As far as Wall Street goes ;they panic when someone sneezes . I never thought that main stream America would be so weak . Tips for people wanting to invest . It is a good time to buy when there is a run on toilet paper . This consolidation of stocks at lower numbers is a great buy opportunity . There is no way the economy dropped that fast in a couple days . The underlying strength of the economy is sound . And when this irrational fear passes there will be a V shaped rebound ....... assuming the government doesn't do something stupid like porkulus 2020 .

The hell with the people caught in the middle who don't invest right! Spoken like a true capitalist.

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Let the Saudis and the Russians duke it out over the scraps of the energy market . USA rules and is the future of the energy supply ..... assuming the government doesn't do something stupid like the Green New Deal .

The US rules but the Saudis can control the price of a barrel of oil which makes us just another producer dependent on THEM! Economics 101, how long can you last selling your oil $20-$30 bucks below the break even price? Exxon will last longer than the smaller operations. NOW WHAT?

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

tomder55: FINALLY SOME RATIONAL THOUGHT! You have verbalized/articulated what I was thinking but couldn't wordsmith! Its all fear mongering....the CHAOS SOWEERS, like Soros and his ilk are looking for the openings to try and muck-up the economy and get Trump out of Office: George Soros really needs to become a CIA target (if we can ever get the CIA to, once again, become an organization that supports U.S. interests).

Rich guys run it, now shut up and do as you're told since slaves have no say in the matter! You're not a slave to the Big Money Gods?

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The hell with the people caught in the middle who don't invest right! Spoken like a true capitalist.

more people are impacted by the market than you realize . As far as I can see the biggest impact to the rest of the country is the irrational panic buying I saw at the grocery store today. Pathetic!

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Originally Posted by tomder55

more people are impacted by the market than you realize . As far as I can see the biggest impact to the rest of the country is the irrational panic buying I saw at the grocery store today. Pathetic!

And why the irrational panic? Because our dear leader hasn't been and still isn't addressing the source of the panic and calming our fears.

because progressive education over the years has turned the people from rugged individuals to spineless sheeple . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X29lF43mUlo

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Originally Posted by tomder55

because progressive education over the years has turned the people from rugged individuals to spineless sheeple . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X29lF43mUlo

Education should be what?

(What's "progressive education"?)

Markets rebounded as the dufus declares an emergency and gets CEO's to say god stuff! better late than never I guess.

" Education should be what ? "I know what it should be .
What's "progressive education"?
What it is in this country is indoctrination .

A few weeks ago the left was running around terrified that Trump started WWIII by killing General Salami . Before that there was the scolding teen girl that had you all convinced that the world had 12 years left . The left has become a dooms day cult .

That's why the stores are out of water ;toilet paper and chicken legs . I am embarrassed for this country .You think one person's leadership would make any difference ? I see the same reaction when there is the threat of a snow flurry .

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Education should be what?

(What's "progressive education"?)

Progressive education is anything past the 3rd grade.

The purpose of "progressive education" is
indoctrination so the student believes that the purpose of human life is to deny and reject the supernatural and to sacrifice oneself to the collective, or in the progressive vernacular “humanity.”

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The purpose of "progressive education" is
indoctrination so the student believes that the purpose of human life is to deny and reject the supernatural and to sacrifice oneself to the collective, or in the progressive vernacular “humanity.”

That's the conservative spin. Since 3rd grade conservative believe in the one with the most money is GOD. To be god like you need MO'MONEY! Screw humanity.

it can be traced to a couple of hallucingen using psychology professors . They got together to form the U of Chicago Laboratory school 1894 .
The purpose of the school was to see what kind of curriculum was needed to produce socialists instead of capitalists, collectivists instead of individualists. The school indoctrinated students from nursery school through 12th
John Dewey was one of the instructors .
According to Dewey, “ education is growth under favorable conditions; the school is the place where those conditions should be regulated scientifically.In other words, if we apply psychology to education, then the ideal classroom is a psych lab and the pupils are laboratory animals. There is much more to it . But you get the idea

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And why the irrational panic? Because our dear leader hasn't been and still isn't addressing the source of the panic and calming our fears.

Dear leader ...a phrase associated with Kim Jong il …. nice . I guess you concur with Madam Mim that the reelection of Trump poses an existential threat . Talk about hysterics .

Leadership being like CDC establishing a coronavirus incident management system, on January 7 ;two days before China announced the outbreak ? At that time Madam Mim was in her 3rd week of delaying sending the House Impeachment articles to the Senate .

Leadership like Jan 21 ,The CDC activated its emergency operations center to provide ongoing support to confront coronavirus. On that day the Dems were
writing their opening arguments for their bogus impeachment trial.

Let's talk about the increasingly popular travel bans .As you know ,the President has proposed ,tried and the Dems have found various means ,especially using the judiciary to block travel band from countries that pose a risk to the US. The President intiated a ban on travel from China in January . He announced one from Europe during his Oval office address. What were the Dems doing ? Well they hastily tabled a motion going through the process in the House called 'The No Ban Act' HR2214 trying to strip the President of his constitutional power to control access to the US . and to stop people from coming to this country that pose a threat .

Meanwhile the Chinese have not been transparent . We have no guarantee that the virus has arched and that business is beginning the return to normal .But that is not unusual . The Chinese are never transparent . When one talks of existential threats Madam Mim should include Chinese theft of our technology ;or even the simple fact that this nation is too dependent on the Chinese supply chain.

And who has been asking America to rethink that ? Yes Trump has warned us for years prior to his Presidency about having all our eggs in one basket . Everything he has warned us about ...border security ;outsourcing is becoming an undeniable fact .His platform is the right platform. I call that leadership .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

it can be traced to a couple of hallucingen using psychology professors . They got together to form the U of Chicago Laboratory school 1894 .
The purpose of the school was to see what kind of curriculum was needed to produce socialists instead of capitalists, collectivists instead of individualists. The school indoctrinated students from nursery school through 12th
John Dewey was one of the instructors .
According to Dewey, “ education is growth under favorable conditions; the school is the place where those conditions should be regulated scientifically.In other words, if we apply psychology to education, then the ideal classroom is a psych lab and the pupils are laboratory animals. There is much more to it . But you get the idea

I don't think my peeps went to that school Tom, nor do I know much about this so called progressive indoctrination education you conservatives love to tout as being so bad. I suspect that conservatives feel their value system is being pushed aside and them having no way of stopping it is behind such rhetoric and they could be right, or is it the remnants of the good old fashion class system that put them and their money at the top of the food chain and lends itself to justify the great disdain for the those that don't measure up? If your god is money, then you need money to be god like, so understandable to put profit over people to serve that god. I get that considering the changes we have been through and the challenges we face now, that just don't have a completely conservative, capitalistic solution.

We have been exposed for the inadequacies of our system and society, and really do need to address them. Not the lest of which is the abject fear that pervades the land and has always been there. Every time something happens it raises it's ugly head and keeps us stuck in memories of better times and everybody has a different better time that gives them comfort I suppose.

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Meanwhile the Chinese have not been transparent . We have no guarantee that the virus has arched and that business is beginning the return to normal .But that is not unusual . The Chinese are never transparent . When one talks of existential threats Madam Mim should include Chinese theft of our technology ;or even the simple fact that this nation is too dependent on the Chinese supply chain.

And who has been asking America to rethink that ? Yes Trump has warned us for years prior to his Presidency about having all our eggs in one basket . Everything he has warned us about ...border security ;outsourcing is becoming an undeniable fact .His platform is the right platform. I call that leadership .

King Reagan said TRUST BUT VERIFY, and that's still the best advice because quiet as it's kept the lack of trust and fear cuts both ways with China, and understandable since they have been used by the west before, and have no intention of doing it again, which is why the do what they do against all the rules that WE make up and IMPOSE on them to be fair. Let's separate government interest from BUSINESS interests though, because unlike the Chinese, business and government is the same, we have no such interconnection so we should not mix the business interest with the governments interest. Those are or should be two separate negotiations.

Hate to break it to you, but all those things the dufus uses as his weapons of fear have been happening for decades and solving them will take more than a big loud stick at the throats of his opponents.

The role of the federal government is to provide for the common defense, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, to promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity. Beyond those, each person is supposed to take care of him/her self. It won't work any other way.

We obviously have different views of the general welfare, which I read as take care of the least and the needy. It doesn't work for me that the definition of general welfare doesn't mean EVERYBODY, nor entitles anyone to make discriminatory laws, practice, or policies that don't guarantee equal protection under the law for EVERYBODY.

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It doesn't work for me that the definition of general welfare doesn't mean EVERYBODY, nor entitles anyone to make discriminatory laws, practice, or policies that don't guarantee equal protection under the law for EVERYBODY.

I actually agree with you completely. The difference is in the word "general". The general welfare is that which benefits everyone such as a healthy economy or a highway system. It is taking money from one person to give to another which, in my view, violates this principle. If you are really concerned about the "least and needy" (I'm not convinced you are), then you need to do what many people do and go out and help the least and the needy. Spend your own money and your own time and stop trying to play Robinhood.

I will admit freely that if I had sufficent time and funds I would get as many people all kinds of help and support, but I worry that many can suffer because of my shortcomings and that's unacceptable so I vote for those that like me see that need being filled by a more reliable source.

Don't you also worry about the ones you cannot reach that need you?

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I will admit freely that if I had sufficent time and funds I would get as many people all kinds of help and support, but I worry that many can suffer because of my shortcomings and that's unacceptable so I vote for those that like me see that need being filled by a more reliable source.

You have some funds and you have some time. Get out and help people. You can't help them all, but you can help some. If every liberal dem who wants the government to help people would go out and help others, then the government would not be needed.

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Don't you also worry about the ones you cannot reach that need you?

Yes. That's why I keep encouraging you to put your time and money where your vote is.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You have some funds and you have some time. Get out and help people. You can't help them all, but you can help some. If every liberal dem who wants the government to help people would go out and help others, then the government would not be needed. Yes. That's why I keep encouraging you to put your time and money where your vote is.

Glad to see you have a plan that works for you. I'll just keep doing what works for me though, thanks.

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so I vote for those that like me see that need being filled by a more reliable source.

from someone else's pocket . How noble !

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from someone else's pocket . How noble !

Exactly.

Whose pocket? Conservatives are very quick to say the poor takes money from their pockets. Why do conservatives hate the least, the needy, and the poor so much?

What I don't get is this world wide urge to stimulate economies, now where there is a lock down it might make some sense but stimulating before the impact is really felt, I don't get that. Mass hysteria and this may only last three months, that is all it has lasted in China

Simulus seems to be needed to get through the crisis which has already reeked havoc. By the numbers they seem to be incremental as they go rather than one huge package. The burden of states has already gotten alarming so assistance from government is needed immediately. We don't know if China nor Italy for that matter is ready to be callled healed as yet, but no doubt they have done the same infusions of capital along the way themselves. The way it's going China if indeed they are nearing the all clear stage may well have to wait on the rest of the world to catch up, if you take there word for it being over.

That's a big if in my book.

No they need to get thier economy back on track, we don't know the level of damage yet but we will all feel it incoming months as stocks dwindle

Need to stop reacting and keep going to work and carry on with normal activities: We don't need to allow a "virus" to put us into a recession or a depression: That is pure stupidity!

Vac, I couldn't agree more.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Need to stop reacting and keep going to work and carry on with normal activities: We don't need to allow a "virus" to put us into a recession or a depression: That is pure stupidity!

in a sense you are right, there is much stupidity in play, but then we haven't had anything like this in, say, a decade and so the present governments have no experience in dealing with these events. Gone are the days when we would stay the course and wait until tomorrow to make decisions, and the media is to blame, a 24 hour news cycle means politicians are under pressure to have immediate answers. Instead of shutting down the economy the media should have an isolation of 14 days

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. Instead of shutting down the economy the media should have an isolation of 14 days

Great idea!!

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Great idea!!

yes it is I think I will turn off the news for 14 days