Well you already have a whistle blower but Trump asked another foriegn leader to get involved in american politics

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-...eport/11562604

Apparently, he asked Scott Morrison, Australian Prime Minister, to help discredit the Meuller investigation. What help Australia could be is mote even though it was a tip from an Australian diplomat that might have led to the investigation it was the actions of Trump and others that Meuller investigated. If this is so then Trump may indeed be trying to obstruct justice and be liable to inpeachment.

For the record Downer, the diplomat involved, was formerly a conservative politician and Australian political leader and would be unlikely to side with democrats

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Downer

I told you so!

You know, it could be possible that this whole Ukraine affair could be played off by the Administration as a pursuit of criminal activity of the Bidens...whether or not that is true or nor....I could see where that angle would sell it as legitimate: You had criminal activity, or it appeared to be criminal activity, and the President simply asking the new Ukrainian President to help the U.S. with the investigation.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

You know, it could be possible that this whole Ukraine affair could be played off by the Administration as a pursuit of criminal activity of the Bidens...whether or not that is true or nor....I could see where that angle would sell it as legitimate: You had criminal activity, or it appeared to be criminal activity, and the President simply asking the new Ukrainian President to help the U.S. with the investigation.

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Apparently, there is an agreement between the US and the Ukraine regarding investigation of criminal activity but Trump should have had the good sense to send any requests through DOJ or State channels and what on Earth does he think Australia can contribute to the debate.

Ask yourself, why would the US be investigating the activities of a US citizen in the Ukraine. Does he think they were smuggling gas to the US and why would it be an issue at the level of President, it can only be a political issue a little tit for tat mud slingging

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...d-the-document

" I would like you to do us a favor though." This was the dufus response to being asked for MORE missiles. No dirt on the Biden's, No missiles? Vlad would love it as he would love the Mueller Report ripped apart and removed the blamed for Russia election interference, and laid it at the feet of the Ukraine.

Loved watching repubs twisting in knots making excuses for the dufus on TV.

There can be no excuse for this sort of behaviour, but the WH leaks like a sieve, got to be a serious security issue. I tell you that Trump is looking very insecure and these things were done before the impeachment proceedings started, what will he do now as he panics. My question is valid, how big a dill is he anyway ​these are not the actions of a smart man

Like Trump or not, security leaks at the level of the Executive Branch need to be routed-out and the perpetrators punished severely….this isn't a Demo or Repub or Libertarian thing, it is about the overall security of the U.S.: You cannot continue to extoll the virtues of "leakers" regardless of what they are leaking....a some fundamental level, this is wrong: Prosecution at the Federal level and making some examples is, unfortunately, got to happen to stop this crap.

Maybe the dufus is just as incompetent to manage his own WH as he is at everything else except lying, cheating stealing and being a big mouth dufus. I mean he puts those people around him but can't catch leakers?

Yeah he is a big fat orange DILL.

Talaniman & Paraclete: Honestly, if the White House cannot keep anything secret, I think we can forget about keeping national secrets, trade secrets, or military secrets away from the ChiComs…..with the number of leakers and the amount they leak, its just impossible to maintain confidentiality.

The WH leaks seem to revolve around scandalous bad behavior more than trade secrets and military stuff.

OP
Maybe, unlikely to side with Democrats, yes. Conservative, not so much, more like centrish.

It's funny that these articles keep popping up, Trump tries to investigate the Dems for corruption and now he's being impeached. As if asking the same people who helped provided information against him, for reasons, was a crime.

This whole thing is partisan, pick your side, I warn you though, they're both smelling like manure.

I can agree both sides both dems and repubs have agendas, nothing new there, but I think also we the public may be missing something from this impeachment thing in that the extortion of Ukraine by with holding military aid after the congress and pentagon have approved the funds and dealt with the corruption issues may be but the beginnng of a bigger problem.

Included into the released memo was the investigation on "crowdstrike", and produce a server the dufus says the Ukraine has that would undermine the entire Mueller Report in an effort to remove the reasons why sanctions have been placed on Russia by the congress. Let me remind you of the intelligence community, and Mueller himself have concluded that Russia did conduct a propaganda cyber war to help the dufus get elected (Russia if your listening), and if the dufus can clear the Russians and blame it on the Ukraine company (Crowdstrike), then he can effectively clear Vlad and his minions and free up money and businesses frozen in limbo since the election.

So not just dirt on Biden, but Russian sanctions by the US is at stake here. Would that not also justify the pardon of Paul Manafort who worked for Vlad through the Ukraine also? Of course it would and made even easier since the meme no collusion or obstruction after the Mueller Report by Barr, despite the rather obvious cover up with the rhetoric by the dufus and his sycophants to distract and fool the American people while he carries out Vlad wishes in Russia's interests. Already it's being reported that there is a deal in the works between the Ukraine and Russia that allows Vlad to claim peace and end the 5 year war, while he keeps Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, and frees his money and allows him to do business again.

So yeah you can pick whatever side you want, but be cautious of what side Vlad is on.

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So yeah you can pick whatever side you want, but be cautious of what side Vlad is on.

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Vlad is on the side of Vlad, and as you may have noticed, Brer Vlad, he lay low. What I say is let the ethnic russians do what ethnic russians do. Ukraine is actually two countries divided by a big river and people on each side of the river think differently.

I think Vlad is on the side which will favour Russia and if incidently that is Trump because he opposes an enemy of Russia in HC then that is the way it is

Like the south, the Soviets are trying to rise again. They both want the dufus to help.

Paraclete: It is time for the relationship between Russia and the U.S. to change....the period of time from 1945 - 1990 constituted the "Cold War" years....that time was driven by communist subversion all around the world and orchestrated, mostly, out of Moscow.....so, given these facts, anyone can understand why the U.S.-Russian relationship suffered during those years. However, Russian hasn't been Bolshevik since 1990....29 years ago....I think its about time that we stop treating Russia like WE OUGHT TO BE TREATING THE TRUE THREAT: THE CHICOMS!

Russia and the U.S. should be trading partners. Russian mineral wealth far surpasses that of any other nation and the U.S. needs to find sources of exotic minerals.

Russian attitudes towards terrorism is well noted: We have that in common with them.

Our whole foreign policy when it comes to Russia is ANTIQUATED beyond measure and it should change.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Paraclete: It is time for the relationship between Russia and the U.S. to change....the period of time from 1945 - 1990 constituted the "Cold War" years....that time was driven by communist subversion all around the world and orchestrated, mostly, out of Moscow.....so, given these facts, anyone can understand why the U.S.-Russian relationship suffered during those years. However, Russian hasn't been Bolshevik since 1990....29 years ago....I think its about time that we stop treating Russia like WE OUGHT TO BE TREATING THE TRUE THREAT: THE CHICOMS!

Russia and the U.S. should be trading partners. Russian mineral wealth far surpasses that of any other nation and the U.S. needs to find sources of exotic minerals.

Russian attitudes towards terrorism is well noted: We have that in common with them.

Our whole foreign policy when it comes to Russia is ANTIQUATED beyond measure and it should change.

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There was a brief flowering of a relationship, but then the US did what the US does and started criticising and pushing their influence into places which were traditional russian sphere of influence. The Ukraine is a case in point and a contentious issue, Georgia is no doubt another as no doubt is Poland

Vlad runs one of the biggest criminal enterprises in the world and the dufus wants in. Have you read Vlads book, "How to make your opposition disappear". It's a DIY must read. When you talk corruption in the Ukraine, you're talking Vlad.

Talaniman: Vlad is getting older now.....he won't be "in charge" forever......he may be all of the things you say but he operates a huge apparatus that thirsts for improvements because even he knows that the people have a breaking point: The 29 years since the fall of Bolshevism have been glorious but also sad...glorious to have gotten out of communism but sad because their progress has been muted and mutated by the Oligarchs and the "apparatus" of, still, Central Government.

Like Trump or not (I KNOW YOU DESPISE HIM!), he did try to change the nature of the Russian-U.S. relationship...I don't know the reasons for it, but the effort was there...the Russia Investigation effectively put a monkey wrench into that effort, however.

Despite all the obstacles, people in power being the main one, the U.S.-Russia relationship needs to improve......it should be a long term goal.

For any healthy relationship between people, or nations in this case, there must be healthy people. Vlad is a criminal, and the dufus is a liar and cheater who disrespects the law and everyone else for his own gain. That's not a good combination for either nation in my estimation, so while I agree the relationship must improve, I don't see two criminals improving it. You can't build a campfire in a rainstorm.

Can't do much about Vlad, but we can deal with the dufus, and do better ourselves.

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What help Australia could be is mote

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I didn't read everyone comments ,but you must be kidding . The American intelligence agencies recruited Alexander Downer in their sting of Papadopoulos . You know it and I know it .

What a coincidence that he happened to meet Papadopoulos in a bar where he learned from the drunken braggart the information Joe Mifsud planted into his brain … that the Russians has "dirt " on Evita.

What did Downer do with the info ? Did he follow protocol ? Did he get authorization from Turnbull to breach accepted protocol ? From what I understand ,the FBI learned of this directly from Downer and not the usual chain of command of the 5 eyes agreement which says that

any intelligence goes through the intelligence system of the country that gathered it.

But Downer decided to directly report the info to the American Embassy in London. Why ? Don't you think that should be cleared up ? What a coincidence that Downer's report ended up in the hand of embassy’s charge d’affaires, Elizabeth Dibble, who previously served as a principal deputy assistant secretary in Evita's State Department.

When ASIO eventually got it's hands on Downers memo ,it was shelved because they thought it was nonsense . Did Downer disclose any classified information to the American embassy ? There are questions that need to be answered ;and like Ukraine ,I'm certain that the US and the Aussies have a treaty to assist each other in criminal investigations .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I didn't read everyone comments ,but you must be kidding . The American intelligence agencies recruited Alexander Downer in their sting of Papadopoulos . You know it and I know it .

What a coincidence that he happened to meet Papadopoulos in a bar where he learned from the drunken braggart the information Joe Mifsud planted into his brain … that the Russians has "dirt " on Evita.

What did Downer do with the info ? Did he follow protocol ? Did he get authorization from Turnbull to breach accepted protocol ? From what I understand ,the FBI learned of this directly from Downer and not the usual chain of command of the 5 eyes agreement which says that

any intelligence goes through the intelligence system of the country that gathered it.

But Downer decided to directly report the info to the American Embassy in London. Why ? Don't you think that should be cleared up ? What a coincidence that Downer's report ended up in the hand of embassy’s charge d’affaires, Elizabeth Dibble, who previously served as a principal deputy assistant secretary in Evita's State Department.

When ASIO eventually got it's hands on Downers memo ,it was shelved because they thought it was nonsense . Did Downer disclose any classified information to the American embassy ? There are questions that need to be answered ;and like Ukraine ,I'm certain that the US and the Aussies have a treaty to assist each other in criminal investigations .

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Let us agree that Downer is not the smartest kid on the block, however, in his position information gathering, including disinformation gathering, was part of his role, however, he was our representative to the UK, so what were the US and particularly someone part of Trump's campaign, up to in the UK? No one has asked this question. Australia is party to a five part agreement on intelligence gathering so any information is fair game and reporting it to the americans a matter of course. What the americans choose to do with it is anyone's guess. Obviously the whole US intelligence network leeks like a sieve so if you want anyone to know anything you tell the americans.

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Australia is party to a five part agreement on intelligence gathering so any information is fair game and reporting it to the americans a matter of course.

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Not true I know that Aussie protocol does not allow anyone to report to a foreign government . The information had to be funneled through your government ;specifically your ASIO.

We really don't know the specific of how things were handled, few stand on formality in real life sometimes. No telling how these personal relationships go, but it's a small point since we know for sure election campaigns are always looking for dirt, scandals and gossip to smear an opponent with. The dufus takes dirt from anybody whether it's true or not. He said so, and has done so. Fact is he will scam, sham, bamboozle and lie to gain advantage of a buck. He has done that many documented times before. He is still doing it now.

That's the point, not minor technicalities.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Not true I know that Aussie protocol does not allow anyone to report to a foreign government . The information had to be funneled through your government ;specifically your ASIO.

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Do you think Downer didn't inform ASIO

but you know what these back channels are like

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Do you think Downer didn't inform ASIO

but you know what these back channels are like

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yes he did ;and when they shelved the report as so much baloney ,he went to the Americans with the info. What we really need to find out is if Downer was working as a foreign agent of the American Intelligence agencies . That is why Trump is asking Morrison to investigate .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

yes he did ;and when they shelved the report as so much baloney ,he went to the Americans with the info. What we really need to find out is if Downer was working as a foreign agent of the American Intelligence agencies . That is why Trump is asking Morrison to investigate .

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Seriously, your conspiracy theories are getting out of hand, Downer was sent to London to party, it is what he does best, you might say it is his only ability, and to get him out of the way, which is what we do with failed politicians. Look if you would like to replace some of yours I'm sure we could persuade Rudd, Gillard and Turnbull to drop in.

Tom, Maybe Downer was fed a line of bull from the Trump campaign to see where it landed

nope ....it was just NOT a coincidence that he ended up in the same bar as Papadopoulos . A lot of this we know already . The FBI sent an "investigator " who called herself Azra Turk ,to seduce and steer Papadopoulos to have a meeting in Rome with the so called Maltese professor Joe Mifsud . Then if we are supposed to believe what we are told ;Downer just happens to waltz into The Kensington Wine Rooms and strikes up a conversation with Papadopoulos about Evita . What a coincidence !!! Downer has said “I asked him whether he thought Donald Trump would be able to defeat Hillary Clinton in the general election,”.........“He said he was confident he could. He said one of the reasons was that the Russians might release some information which could be damaging to Hillary Clinton.”

Did he follow proper channels ? Not according to this report :

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The government’s defence of its decision comes after revelations in Guardian Australia on Wednesday that Alexander Downer took the then prime minister, Malcolm Turnbull, and senior colleagues by surprise when he relayed information to the American chargé d’affaires in London in July 2016 about his now infamous conversation with George Papadopoulos, then a foreign policy adviser to Trump.
Guardian Australia understands Downer’s conversation with Papadopoulos was recorded in a diplomatic cable back to Canberra.
But the first senior players in Canberra knew of Downer’s conversation with America’s top diplomat in London about Russia obtaining damaging information about Hillary Clinton from her emails was when the Australian government was contacted subsequently by the Federal Bureau of Investigation for more information. That diplomat-to-diplomat conversation, sources insist, was unauthorised.

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https://www.theguardian.com/australi...es-by-surprise

Of course it was unauthorized, that's what plausible deniability is all about. That's why taking anybody's version of the truth as gospel and drawing conclusions from them is faulty. You know that as well as I do Tomder, because people can say one thing to the media, while quite another under oath. If it's not under oath it just ain't gospel, may not be true or the complete truth. The devil is always in the details you don't know, and that's where we get speculation, opinion, and assumptions that are entirely circumstantial.

Anything that comes from the dufus as an example, or his sycophants, requires massive quantities of salt. A spoon full of sugar won't make any of this go down any easier given HISTORY. The real problem is ignoring HISTORY.

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The real problem is ignoring HISTORY.

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Who's history is that Tal. Are you saying there is plenty of history of interference in US elections or of Democrat disinformation campaigns?

Let's keep it simple and just focus on the dufus history Clete. A very long line of lying, cheating, stealing, bullying and bluster, many lawsuits, and underhanded dealing and covering it up.

Oh you mean someone's invented history, bull and bluster

The dufus didn't invent his history but cultivated it over the years, and is quite proud of being a crook. He said so.

But how do you know? because of what is reported or invented in the media

No he said so. "I alone can fix it" among his other utterances, though he lies all the time, and his lawsuits and antics are well right before your eyes, a matter of record. Now if you rather believe him, and not the media, then that's okay by the dufus too! What has the media INVENTED about the dufus?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

No he said so. "I alone can fix it" among his other utterances, though he lies all the time, and his lawsuits and antics are well right before your eyes, a matter of record. Now if you rather believe him, and not the media, then that's okay by the dufus too! What has the media INVENTED about the dufus?

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How would you know? Pilate asked what is truth? I may well ask the same. Yes Trump has trumpetted his brilliance for all to see and been found wanting, so this makes him a fool

Watch out for the feint.....the scattered Red Herrings.....Harry Reid just warned you not to underestimate Trump.....Its always the punch you don't see that knocks you out!

There once was a man of meager means who got a janitorial job at a steel mill producing exotic alloys....he barely spoke and his communication skills were lacking.....he simply came to work, on time, every day, and he always volunteered to pull overtime and work weekends....he worked at the mill for three and a half years....one day he didn't come to work....he didn't collect his last paycheck....his room that he lived in was just the way he left it, nothing taken, as if he simply dropped off the earth.....A few years later, an Engineer employed by the steel mill went to interview at a competitor steel mill halfway across the country....as he sat in the lobby, someone walked past him that he though he recognized....later in the day, during the course of the interview, as part of the interview process, he sat down for a one-on-one with a "James Smith PhD...as he came into the luxurious office3 of James Smith he finally recognized the man he saw in the lobby, it was THE JANITOR!

You can be fooled....everyone can be fooled.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

You can be fooled....everyone can be fooled.

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Especially you, V7.

Your example is preposterous and makes no sense. Trump is a madman and he gets worse with each criticism - a symptom of malignant narcissism. Psychiatrists across the nation are in agreement about Trump's mental disability. His public behavior says it all.

Here's the truth that you avoid as you consistently defend Trump even tho you deny supporting him.

"There is merit in mental health professionals making observations - and an evaluation would be helpful. However, 3-plus years of his tweets and unscripted rallies offer more evidence than a two day psychiatric exam ever could. Contextual psychosis alone is enough."

look we know he suffers from dillusions, such a pity he has to share them with us

Athos: I led off by say that Harry Reid (the Democrat from Nevada Harry Reid) warned not to underestimate Trump.

The story about the Janitor is true: Simply legal Industrial Espionage.....he stole everything, every process that the plant had in production.

Still, you say I SUPPORT Trump! Come on, I don't: I am pointing out the bear traps that lay all around the left....all these traps set by Trump.

You say Trump is a madman....maybe he is or maybe he is not, but you believe he is and some doctors probably believe that, too, based upon content of what he says......BUT: When did being a madman ever preclude someone from being very charismatic, very smooth, very convincing, or, even, very sneaky.....and being an educated people, a people steeped in culture, a people rich in scientific endeavors or any thing like these attributes prevent a madman from gaining control: You only have to look back to 1920's-30's Germany to see this as a real possibility! Trump being a screwball means nothing to him getting elected, AGAIN!

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

The story about the Janitor is true: Simply legal Industrial Espionage.....he stole everything, every process that the plant had in production.

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And this fits Trump how????

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I am pointing out the bear traps that lay all around the left....all these traps set by Trump.

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Please name the traps set by Trump.

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Trump being a screwball means nothing to him getting elected, AGAIN!

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It means EVERYTHING to those doing the electing!!