Trump has unconstitutionally diverted funds authorized by Congress to fund a separate project of his own.

The amount of $3.6 billion was illegally taken from the defense budget to pay for a campaign promise of Trump - a wall on the southern border of the USA.

He cares nothing for immigration issues (other than excluding immigrants by race/ethnicity), but obsessively needs to be seen as fulfilling a campaign promise. His sick ego will not let him do otherwise.

As the 2020 election draws near, Trump will behave in an increasingly bizarre and strange manner, terrified of losing.

None of his raiding of other departments budgets have added an inch of his promised wall and that's on top of his congressionally appropriated funds. NOT ONE INCH! Ever hear of a real estate mogul who builds stuff not being able to build a simple wall? Yeah let the guy who bankrupts casinos, scams contractors, and consumers and banks run from get his hands on taxpayer money to build something.

Somebody has lost their freaking mind, while we all lose a bunch of money, if you think that's a good idea.

So once again the military cannot account for a few billion dollars, don't you realise that for them this is an accounting error, 0.5% and Trump is to blame, who was to blame before? If the amry engineers are tasked to build a wall it is becuase they need experience in building walls, just as they have experience in building levies and dams and roads. So how much does a new road along the southern border cost?

Nothing illegal about it: If you frame the argument as national security, the POTUS is responsible, and he alone, with executing that requirement...and it is a requirement of Office to protect the American People.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

So once again the military cannot account for a few billion dollars, don't you realise that for them this is an accounting error, 0.5% and Trump is to blame, who was to blame before? If the amry engineers are tasked to build a wall it is becuase they need experience in building walls, just as they have experience in building levies and dams and roads. So how much does a new road along the southern border cost?

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Reporting has it that many military projects have been cancel because of the redirection of funds from the military which means many jobs and local economies will be affected.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Nothing illegal about it: If you frame the argument as national security, the POTUS is responsible, and he alone, with executing that requirement...and it is a requirement of Office to protect the American People.

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Wrong my friend, the president governs as a co EQUAL partner with the congress, and it's up to the other branches to balance this dufus and repubs have no truck for that especially during an election, and the prospect of losing their jobs because he surely will bad mouth these fools if they oppose anything he does, or says like the ones that have done so before.

The dufus is great at framing stuff for you wingers to lap up, but it is against the law if repubs would enforce the law like they are supposed to.

Nothing illegal about it: If you frame the argument as national security, the POTUS is responsible, and he alone, with executing that requirement...and it is a requirement of Office to protect the American People.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Nothing illegal about it: If you frame the argument as national security, the POTUS is responsible, and he alone, with executing that requirement...and it is a requirement of Office to protect the American People.

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You cannot divert monies already allocated by Congress. That's a clear usurpation of power by the president. Illegal.

If the president has a national security issue, he goes to Congress for the money.

But everybody knows it's all BS from Trump and has to do with the Mexicans refusing to pay for his wall as he promised a zillion times. Major egg on face.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Nothing illegal about it: If you frame the argument as national security, the POTUS is responsible, and he alone, with executing that requirement...and it is a requirement of Office to protect the American People.

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Why because he said so? You obviously know nothing about the laws of your own lands. Onl dictators and monarchs ignore such things set aside in the constitution but the dufus has a tradition and history of making it up as he goes along and has lawyers to help him.

"The dufus is great at framing stuff for you wingers to lap up, but it is against the law if repubs would enforce the law like they are supposed to."

That's doesn't make it right that they don't!

Athos & Talaniman: When it comes to national security, the POTUS has incredible power to make judgements, calls, and appropriations that are WAY, WAY, WAY beyond the purview of Congress' or Senate's reach: The POTUS can launch a nuclear strike if he see fit! HE DOESN'T ASK FOR ANYONE'S PERMISSION ON NATIONAL SECURITY MATTERS! How much more power do you think he needs? The POTUS is COMMANDER IN CHIEF, PERIOD! He doesn't have to ask Congress or Senate for a damn thing if he feels the people of the U.S. are in harms way. And, whether or not those are LEGITIMATE reasons is not even debatable because it doesn't matter, legally....he could be lying his off about the real reason: POTUS RULES WHEN IT COMES TO NATIONAL SECURITY AND HE ANSWERS TO NO ONE!

All this power to POTUS is all by design, so that we don't debate things to death while we are being attacked or invaded and the "house is on fire", so to speak. I am not saying I agree with this but it is the way it is and we all have to respect and abide by it. NOT SAYING ITS RIGHT OR WRONG, all I am saying nothing short of God can stop the POTUS on matters of national security. Totally different subject when it comes to Declarations Of War, which are under the War Powers Act.

Internally to the proper borders of the U.S., POTUS can do anything he so chooses to do and no one but no one can stop him....furthermore, The SCOTUS will back POTUS to the hilt on this....and if they didn't before, they surely will now....and damn sure will once Ginsburg is gone and a new conservative SCJ replaces her, which is going to happen.

Naw, the dufus's power is whatever the congress lets him get away with, and he has enough sycophants to do as he pleases almost, but that can change and despite the bluster he can still be held account. Conservative though they be SCOTUS or any conservative judge may not let him get beyound the law, and he has lost in court a few times already.

At least one would hope so, or what's the whole point of this experiment any way? You better hope repubs keep control of the senate. We'll see won't we? Looks like his money grab of Pentagon funds for his wall will be in a court soon too. I seem to remember the budget bill he signed expressly forbid his using budgeted money for his dream wall but trying to check that out. I would imagine even repubs may balk at projects in their states being cancelled.

Talaniman: As long as all of this is held in terms of national security the Defense budget will be the only recourse by which it can be addressed......If you just naturally extrapolate this thought all the way through, it doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to see how POTUS can maneuver this thing in his favor

Let me try: Say that there are two million ChiCom troops lurking just over the border separating the U.S. from Mexico and they have been coming across that border in little herds, here and there but they are now threatening to come "enforce"....the U.S. response wouldn't be with Immigration & Naturalization, it would definitely be with the Department Of Defense. As long as Trump names illegal aliens as a pseudo "invasion force" and keeps all of this under the National Security umbrella, the natural extension is to also get the Department Of Defense involved. I think it will be deemed to be perfectly legal, especially given that the POTUS's primary job is to secure the welfare of the American people.

Talaniman, I think you and I can agree on at least this point: Congress and Senate are about as worthless as tits on a boar hog......I have never seen any of these people do anything for the last 20 years that I would celebrate as even remotely remarkable.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Say that there are two million ChiCom troops lurking just over the border separating the U.S. from Mexico and they have been coming across that border in little herds, here and there but they are now threatening to come "enforce"....the U.S. response wouldn't be with Immigration & Naturalization, it would definitely be with the Department Of Defense. As long as Trump names illegal aliens as a pseudo "invasion force" and keeps all of this under the National Security umbrella, the natural extension is to also get the Department Of Defense involved. I think it will be deemed to be perfectly legal, especially given that the POTUS's primary job is to secure the welfare of the American people.

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Instead of a military invasion, how about babies in cages. You can't just make up stuff to suit your fantasy, which is essentially what Trump does.

Dead on Athos we don't have to substitute the reality of men women and children with some commie army, that just distorts reality. My worry would be that raiding the pentagon budget for the emergency his own incompetence and cruelty created would just be another way to justify a huge budget battle next month when the fiscal year ends, but we will see what the feckless congress does about it then.

The dufus is not even close to fulfilling the security of the American people he has just made a challenge into a crisis and a cruel one at that and it's HIGHLY irresponsible when he has willing workers who can earn their keep and help grow and expand the economy.

Why do you think I call him a LYING, CHEATING, DUFUS in the first place? He proves me right everyday. We need to take back our country for this idiot in chief!

We shouldn't be arguing about whether Trump has the power as president to do what he's doing - stealing from Peter to pay Paul.

After all, Trump has promised the American people too many times to count that Mexico will provide the money for the wall. Problem solved!

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Originally Posted by Athos

We shouldn't be arguing about whether Trump has the power as president to do what he's doing - stealing from Peter to pay Paul.

After all, Trump has promised the American people too many times to count that Mexico will provide the money for the wall. Problem solved!

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It is easy for Trump to make them pay, by Trumpeconomics you just slap a tariff on thier goods and they pay

Right. I forgot about Trumpeconomics. He'll backtrack on that right after he backtracks on weather reports for Alabama.

How is the weather in Alabama, obviously more important than Poland

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Originally Posted by paraclete

How is the weather in Alabama, obviously more important than Poland

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And don't forget -- the Taliban is going to be our BFFs now.

Anyone who thinks the Taliban is going to be our new best friend is a fool.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Anyone who thinks the Taliban is going to be our new best friend is a fool.

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Time to mention that to Trump.

Wondergirl: I agree with you.

I can only hope that The POTUS doesn't actually believe everything he says and doesn't say everything he believes......Brinkmanship is most likely at play here.....keeping my fingers crossed!

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

I can only hope that The POTUS doesn't actually believe everything he says and doesn't say everything he believes......Brinkmanship is most likely at play here.....keeping my fingers crossed!

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I don't believe Trump believes anything he says, it is just all spin and rhetoric for the consumption of the dumb audience,

Paraclete: O.K., fair enough.....Do you think he is saying the things he says to jazz-up/rile-up his supporters or anger his detractors.....or to just to keep everyone guessing all the time? I ask you this because I am seeing a pattern with what he says and I don't believe it is just him "spouting-off", I believe there is some choreography there....his statements are too well timed to not be planned, whether by him or by others around him. In that regard, his statements have tremendous effects. For example, when he says something to make Wall Street go crazy and take a giant tumble, I think it is aimed at the largest investor on Wall Street: Red China....when Wall Street loses, China REALLY loses.....so these things are design behaviors.

Funny ,no one was complaining that the Pentagon was under funded before . Only the Pentagon complained during all those sequester mandatory cuts .

Yeah some of Trump's rhetoric is over the top. But some of it is suprisingly effective . Take for example that "ordering " companies to leave China. Well just a few days later Google announced a decoupling . They are going to move their Pixel smart phome production to Vietnam ;and their smart phone speaker assembly to Thailand .Google's move follows what is becoming a trend that should've happened a long time ago. It was never a good idea to have all of our eggs in one basket …...especially a Chinese basket . For national security reasons alone this was a good idea .
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/18/more...trade-war.html

Suddenly the Chinese are again interested in getting to the negotiation table .

Now about that wall. If Congress funds what the President requests then there is no reason to divert national defense funds to the effort .

If you are opposed to the wall then tell me why you think open borders is a good idea . (and don't deny it )

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Now about that wall. If Congress funds what the President requests then there is no reason to divert national defense funds to the effort .

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Simple. Congress and most of the non-Republican world sees the wall for what it is - a campaign promise to rile up the rank and file promising Mexico would pay for it. Well, it's 3 years later and Mexico still hasn't paid for it. Trump is fanatically desparate to get the money to the extent he's now illegally taking money from the Pentagon intended to upgrade military facilities in Eastern Europe (a gift to Vlad?) and intended to upgrade certain facilities like schools for military dependents.

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If you are opposed to the wall then tell me why you think open borders is a good idea . (and don't deny it)

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I'm opposed to the wall and I DON'T think open borders is a good idea. That's a right-wing phony charge that just won't go away no matter how much it's denied.

I dont want Mexico to pay for it . We would save money building it . But I want Congress to properly fund this . His diversions of funds may or may not be "illegal" The question is if the situation at the border is a national emergency as defined by the National Emergencies Act of 1976. The point is that IF such diversion of funding is permitted under a Presidential declaration of an emergency then what is to prevent future bone head Dem Presidents from using the same tactics to fund the crazy Green New Deal ,or other wacko progressive policies ?

then why are you OPPOSED to building a wall to keep illegal aliens out? If you don't want to keep illegals out, then you must think its O.K. to let them in! That is OPEN borders.....and it has to ALL or nothing, no exceptions.

What conservatives and righties really mean is no open SOUTHERN border, because it's okay that rich Euros including Russians can come here to have their anchor babies and be welcome as hell. No lines no waiting!

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I dont want Mexico to pay for it . We would save money building it . But I want Congress to properly fund this . His diversions of funds may or may not be "illegal" The question is if the situation at the border is a national emergency as defined by the National Emergencies Act of 1976. The point is that IF such diversion of funding is permitted under a Presidential declaration of an emergency then what is to prevent future bone head Dem Presidents from using the same tactics to fund the crazy Green New Deal ,or other wacko progressive policies ?

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Yeah, what would prevent a dem from declaring an emergency because of climate change and take all the money he needs for the green new deal? That alone should have conservatives and repubs checking the dufus, but sadly that's not happening is it? They don't even question him at all even while he funnels tax payer money to his businesses. Now the Pentagon is stalling congress for those details.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

then why are you OPPOSED to building a wall to keep illegal aliens out? If you don't want to keep illegals out, then you must think its O.K. to let them in! That is OPEN borders.....and it has to ALL or nothing, no exceptions.

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Repubs must not think a wall is worth it either, since they also voted not to give him the money.

Talaniman: Have to call B.S. on the no lines, no waiting: My wife is from one of those "rich European countries" and she had to wait many years....and stand in some long lines, to boot. Also, I liked how you said the addendum "including Russians" to your blurb: Russians are humans, too, despite what the left says about them....the left had no problem with Russians as long as they were the U.S.S.R. and Bolshevik, remember: Bill & Hillary ohhhing and ahhhing about Russia and the socialist state it was during the Vietnam conflict (not a war, no declaration of war, ever) and ole Bernie Sanders going to the U.S.S.R. on one of his honeymoons with one of his three different wives.....then Russia was "good" but now, according to the left, Russia is "bad".....please.

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What conservatives and righties really mean is no open SOUTHERN border, because it's okay that rich Euros including Russians can come here to have their anchor babies and be welcome as hell. No lines no waiting!

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wrong again . My immigration policy is simple ….come here legally and you are welcome .

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Yeah, what would prevent a dem from declaring an emergency because of climate change and take all the money he needs for the green new deal? That alone should have conservatives and repubs checking the dufus, but sadly that's not happening is it ?

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um yeah ...that is what I wrote . "

The point is that IF such diversion of funding is permitted under a Presidential declaration of an emergency then what is to prevent future bone head Dem Presidents from using the same tactics to fund the crazy Green New Deal ,or other wacko progressive policies ?"

Migrant seeking asylum are legal, and there is a lawful process in place to deal with them, and a wall won't stop people from sneaking in the country illegally. So why does the dufus have to declare an emergency to steal military money appropriated lawfully, for his wall. It occurs to me that an executive that cannot make his own party, sycophants otherwise on everything else, give him what he wants, then should he be even allowed to go around the congress?

Sorry Tomder, but this fellow is just too cruel and nickel slick for me. Rerouting the military and getting officials to stay at his hotels on taxpayers dime reeks of corruption and at least keep him away from the money. Maybe you don't mind but he has done enough for a real close scrutiny as far as I'm concerned.

No I said next to nothing when caps were in place for the military budget, nor when the caps came off, but when our moneys goes into the dufus pocket, that's as blatant a case for classic corruption as it gets, as well as stealing the money to get his wall by election day. You never minded a check on the exec before why change now. He's had enough rope as far as I'm concerned so tie the sucker off and let him swing.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

then why are you OPPOSED to building a wall to keep illegal aliens out?

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Because it is nothing more than a Trump campaign boondoggle. And, 2, it won't keep illegal aliens out.

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If you don't want to keep illegals out, then you must think its O.K. to let them in! That is OPEN borders.....and it has to ALL or nothing, no exceptions.

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V - you started out so promising, but you keep posting illogical comments. Read slowly - I never said anywhere I don't want to keep illegals out. AND - AND - "illegals" covers a lot of ground. An illegal wanting to enter to murder someone is bad. An illegal escaping from oppression is another matter entirely. This illegal should be examined and processed and let in if necessary. The spirit of the law trumps the letter of the law.

"All or nothing, no exceptions" is the refuge of the unthinking.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The question is if the situation at the border is a national emergency as defined by the National Emergencies Act of 1976.

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This is hardly an emergency by any definition of the word. According to mustard-head it's been going on for several administrations - hardly an "emergency".

yeah maybe but it is according to the definitions in the law which states that the act authorizes the President to activate emergency provisions of law via an emergency declaration on the condition that the President specifies the provisions so activated and notifies Congress. Termination of the emergency needs a joint resolution by Congress that the President can over ride .(1985 amendment to the law)

The Act also requires the President and executive agencies to maintain records of all orders and regulations that proceed from use of emergency authority, and to regularly report the cost incurred to Congress. Appears he's doing that .

I don't like the law and you don't . Congress can change it . If what I read is true ,Republicans are not happy either . But the way the law it written ,the President has the power to declare what is an emergency.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

yeah maybe but it is according to the definitions in the law which states that the act authorizes the President to activate emergency provisions of law via an emergency declaration on the condition that the President specifies the provisions so activated and notifies Congress. Termination of the emergency needs a joint resolution by Congress that the President can over ride .(1985 amendment to the law)

The Act also requires the President and executive agencies to maintain records of all orders and regulations that proceed from use of emergency authority, and to regularly report the cost incurred to Congress. Appears he's doing that .

I don't like the law and you don't . Congress can change it . If what I read is true ,Republicans are not happy either . But the way the law it written ,the President has the power to declare what is an emergency.

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I don't think this would hold up in court. Surely the emergency must contain some immediate "gravitas". As an absurd example, and based on how the law is written (your post above), the president could declare an emergency if he runs out of cheeseburgers, orders a tank to go the nearest McDonald's, and overrides Congressional disapproval.

(I shouldn't have written that down. It's liable to show up in a twitter next week).

Athos: The EMERGENCY decree will hold up in the courts because SCOTUS is the only Court that really counts.....I don't need to remind you that the SCOTUS is already leaning to the Right and when RBG runs out of time, it will REALLY be leaning right. Trump will have free reign to contest and take every contest to the SCOTUS and win. The leftist 9th Circuit Court is just a speed-bump/slight delay in the inevitable.

Get ready because, like it or not, Trump will have his way and we are going to have to abide by it....Not saying I agree with all of what he is pushing but its going to come to fruition, you can sense the momentum he has on this subject.

And don't look now but Trump is filling to the brim the District Court Judges seats at a very rapid rate....more than any POTUS before him....that doesn't bode well for the left, either.

I know you guys think Trump is a dufus but he is beating the hell out the left, right now, on all fronts.....and he is lucky.

I would hate to have to rely on the Human Penguin, Jerry "The Nagging" Nadler, as a means of stopping Trump: Guy is not very bright on top of looking like a cartoon caricature! Trump is running circles around Nadler and company.

The left has to divorce itself of its far left radicals in order to get any traction on Immigration: The idea of just having Open Borders (I know you say you don't support them, Athos) is just not flying well.....especially amongst legacy minorities: This push by the left is only pushing many minorities into the arms of Trump and the Republicans.

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I don't think this would hold up in court.

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so far it hasn't . A lower court ruled against ;but SCOTUS put a stay on their ruling based on the plaintiff's standing .

Why in hell do we want everything decided in court ? Funding powers are given to Congress. But Congress for years have abdicated their powers to either the executive through direct Presidential discretion or even more insidiously though the administrative state's regulations. I agree the law is ripe for abuse . Congress should do something about it . That would be more useful than their endless hearings looking for anything to bring down Trump.

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And don't look now but Trump is filling to the brim the District Court Judges seats at a very rapid rate....more than any POTUS before him....that doesn't bode well for the left, either.

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He's filled somewhere around 200 vacancies in District and Appellate Courts .

Trump is in a prime position to dominate the left for the next five years....Pure beat down from the Courts!

One would hope that any court would apply the rule of law to their jurist prudence, along with the merits of the arguments, and not ideology when they have a case before them, and I think the yammering over activist judges being for liberal causes is overblown and eroneous, but amazingly that's what the right expects from their judicial appointments. That's why Moscow Mitch thinks keeping openings for a repub president was a great enough idea he denied Obama A SCOTUS selection. We see this with the dufus in all areas of governance though, as he replaces competent people with sycophants and many not even being nominated, but on an acting basis, facing replacement on a whim at the first sign of disloyalty or disobedience or defiance. This is clearly governance by a would be dictator that undermines the very foundation of not just the rule of law, but the efficiency of government, already a bit shaky before the dufus showed up. So while we watch what the court cases bring in the coming months we awaken this morning with the dufus tweets of canceling a meeting with the Taliban and Afghan president at Camp David.

No wonder righties are rabidly ecstatic over this dufus, because they love the chaos, calamity and uncertainty he brings to the rest of us. I suppose every good system needs a test every now and then and for sure we have one now, and it is a challenge to see if we rise to, or fall because we fail to dump this drama queen snake oil salesman, or at least reign in his worst characteristics of being a bigmouthed dufus.

Doesn't matter to me if that happens at the ballot box, or the courts as long as he gets muzzled or INCARCERATED. With half the country actively against him, chances are in some way he will get got, and I just have to push back and reject the notion dems or the left if you prefer will just be beat down and dominated.

Talaliman: Somewhere, some place, the Courts went to hell...and I mean in terms of being nonaligned for or against a political bent and ALL FOR JUSTICE....they should have never been politicized in the first place.....if you really look back in history, I guess you could say FDR started this crap in the '30s (I don't give a rat's behind about his political affiliation, either)…...But, I think you and I can agree: The Courts have become a "Making Law" part of government when they are simply supposed to "Interpret and Enforce Laws": Congress has just got real damn lazy and passed the buck to the Courts: I don't see that changing any time soon.

I don't see the left being able to fight the Courts successfully, do you: Old saying "You can't fight City Hall" applies. Left is in a bad way at the wrong time in history.....Populist doesn't carry as much weight as it used to carry but the Courts carry more than they used to carry.