The Russia-gate probe was about one question: Did the Trump campaign conspire, coordinate, or collude with Russia to influence the 2016 election? Mueller has concluded that did not happen. That is all you need to know from the 448 page report . Everything else is related to that single question . The government had already looked at Manafort's shady dealings and was not acting on it until Mueller decided to use it as leverage. The FISA warrants against Carter Page and later the Trump campaign all stem from that central question. American hero Michael Flynn would not have his name smeared and his family's finances ruined if not for that question. Let's not forget the hours of rebuttals arguing with the Trump -collusion conspiracy theorist here and on many other forums.

Let me make it clear...….There was NO collusion . Not there was no"criminal" collusion . Not there was no collusion "beyond a reasonable doubt" . The Mueller Dossier makes it clear that there was NO COLLUSION PERIOD !

So why is it the Mueller Dossier and not the Mueller Report ? Well because he devoted about half of the report feeding democrats talking points about the possibility of obstruction .Much of it came from Mueller's very broad interpretations of the statutes . He sorta says that it is up to congress to change the statutes .In doing that he is handing the mantle to Congress ;and Congress will pounce on that invitation.

But of course there would have been no obstruction investigation had there not been the collusion allegation to begin with. The investigation was about something that did not happen .Just like the Steele Dossier that was full of untruths was used to launch the investigation ;the Mueller Dossier ,full of vague inference to obstruction will be used by Congress to begin the impeachment phase of this farce.

So Mueller is a faithful demonrat, didn't Trump say he was compromised

He is loyal to the deep state swamp critters . He spent 2years plus on this investigation and never looked into the genesis .

home
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...dnc-fbi-media/


and abroad (including your former Minister of Foreign Affairs Alexander Downer)


https://disobedientmedia.com/2018/04...-intelligence/

It involves a web of domestic and foreign law enforcement and intelligence heads in a plot to influence the US elections to ensure an Evita victory ;and later to attempt a silent coup de grace on an elected US president .

Nice spin and fake news Tomder. Obviously you didn't read it despite all the links, but are just repeating AG Barr and the right wing looney talking points. The scope of the report is narrow as was his mandate when appointed. You know that. Confined to Russian election interference and anyone that helped the Russians and obstruction. Despite the lack of evidence of criminal conspiracy, the dufus campaign and the Russians sure danced well together.

If you don't read it yourself be careful who you listen too.

actually the wording of the mandate was broad . I'm working through it . Part II 1st because part one is clear that there was no criminal conspiracy with the ,There is no ambiguity . Part 2 appears to me to be more a road map that Mueller made for Congress to proceed with impeachment proceedings . THAT was NOT in his mandate . Either he had enough to make an indictment case or he didn't . If he didn't then he exceeded his mandate by suggesting what might be actionable .

I just hope the dems are pragmatic with the roadmap as they have a lot more option than JUST impeachment. I prefer they oust this fool by old fashion voting him out. Repubs ain't having that impeachment stuff anyway at this point so seems futile.

the polling supports your view . Both Beto and Warren are reporting that one of the lowest agenda items of people attending their rallies is impeachment .

Let's not forget there are at least 14 other investigations into the dufus mob acyivities so we may as well relax and see what comes next. Let's not ignore the Russian capability to hack into our archaic election grid though, and that I consider a very high priority. There should be no hurry for anything at this point but a lot of legal wrangling and committee appearances. If Barr and repubs want to investigate the "oranges" of all this they have no further than Rosenstein to ask, and please get that idiot Carter Page off my TV screen. I mean how often do you have to get caught up in surveillance of Russians before you get it? Even Flynn knew that.

Mueller knew full well that his buddy Barr was going to be a dufus flunky from jumpstreet... we all did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cruh2p_Wh_4

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Originally Posted by tomder55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cruh2p_Wh_4

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You cite YouTube as an authoritative source? You cite Obama as an authorative source? but if he thinks there is no issue, why are the demonrats pursuing the rigged election issue

was that the emperor or do you think youtube posted an imposter ? The report is clear . 200 pages showing that there was no Trump campaign conspirancy with the Russians to rig the elections . I posted a video where their savior says it is impossible to rig the American presidential election . So at this point ,anyone who still believes it is wearing a tin foil hat .

https://www.dictionary.com/e/wp-cont...foil_hat_2.jpg

Yes it is much in vogue these days, but why are debating more of nothing to see here. Mueller exceeded his brief

It is imperative that this has to play out to the end so we can guarantee that the national security aparatus can never be used again against domestic political opponents of an administration . There are also aspects of this that have still not been fully investigated . The American people have to know the full lengths that the emperor's regime and then the remnants embedded in the deep state went in it's abuse of power . There has to be an accounting for his 8 year reign .This Russia-gate business was the cumulation of abuses directed at political opponents . Except for the military ,he used the full weight of the executive dept targeting them .He used the IRS ,regulatory enforcement agencies ,the State Dept ,the Intelligence Agencies ,and finally the Justice Dept in an attempt to criminalize his political opponents . We can't just say move on.

Lot's of charges and allegations there against Obama Tom, amid CURRENT abuses of power by this administration that we actually know about. Lets be clear the investigation nor Obama said anything about rigging an election, but the subject is interfering in one, and to date while no conspiracy is found, collusion is definitely present in plain sight. No doubt the dufus has never ever condemned the Russian antics and tactics which his intel community has been keeping him informed of, nor has he shared that with the American people, so obviously he welcomed and played it against HC to get elected.

That's enough intent for me as to how far he would sink in a dirty game to begin with. Mueller's report may be over, but investigations continue as the facts and implications of those facts continue to be gleaned. For me none of this is news as we have known we elected a lying cheating dufus to the WH, and had it confirmed finally. Combining that with the looming election I expect nothing but fireworks and bombs bursting in air.

I also think Tom, that making previous administrations accountable should have started with Reagan, not Obama, but the focus should be on the dufus and no one else at this time. You and JL love to bring back old dem stuff while the current climate of lying, cheating, and total corruption reigns. I hate to see what repubs would be doing had HC won, probably more of the same crap from the last 3 decades.

Did I mention that an election looms near? I dream of a dem house and senate and WH to clean up the repob mess...AGAIN.

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collusion is definitely present in plain sight. No doubt the dufus has never ever condemned the Russian antics and tactics which his intel community has been keeping him informed of, nor has he shared that with the American people, so obviously he welcomed and played it against HC to get elected.

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that is the level to achieve criminal conspiracy ? That is as silly as when the left kept saying that Trump did not condemn David Duke therefore Trump supports the KKK. The letter appointing Mueller tasked him with investigating any link and /or coordination between the Russians and the Trump campaign. The report makes many allegations of Russians attempts to influence the Trump campaign and finds nothing where there was coordination or cooperation. Now if it were true that the emperor knew the Russians were attempting to infiltrate the Trump campaign .He should've informed him of their efforts . Instead ;the emperor's intel and Justice dept treated Trump like the criminal and used the Russian attempts as an excuse to illegally spy on a domestic political campaign. You think the Russians attempts were an assault on our system ? The emperor's efforts were a thousand times more damaging .

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. You and JL love to bring back old dem stuff

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The slate doesn't wipe clean because they successfully exited the stage …..especially when they didn't leave the stage but instead their loyalist in the executive branch to this day undermine the Trump administration and attempt a coup.

Because he is a lying cheating dufus and history of bad behavior and unlawful acts and is still under investigation and is an unnamed co conspirator in a criminal case. You ignore that but why should we?

lol he is neither an unnamed co conspirator nor an unindicted co conspirator. But this left's repeat a lie long enought must make it true methods do help to cement the lie into the public conscious . An unindicted co conspirator is someone who a Grand Jury finds probable cause against .The Cohen case never went to a Grand Jury because of Cohen's plea.So all you have is Cohen's claim that he was directed to pay hush money (which is itself a falsehood. He was directed to negotiate a NDA).
Even if he were so designated by a Grand Jury as such it would be a completely unfair thing to do because as President he has no means to defend himself of the charge because a sitting President can't be brought to trial . So he would be left with that charge with no means of exercising the due process rights of the accused. There is no legal forum to defend himself. He is not one and will not be one until and if a Grand Jury names him as one. And of course that case had nothing to do with Russia

Has everything to do with the dufus being corrupt before, during and after his presidency. We've only had the Mueller Report for days. I guess we wait and see don't we? One thing we know for FACT is that Barr's version was a lie and this may be the biggest scandal in our history. Nixon was small potatoes compared to the dufus. Just saying.

I would love to sit you and JL down at a chessboard and play for money!

I play a respectable game of chess . I'm also not talking about other Trump issues .I stated on this site a long time ago I thought his dealings in the real estate business in NYC and Atlantic City had to be by definition suspect . Your not dealing with Boy Scouts.

I'm not letting go to the fact that Mueller completely ignored the genesis of the , scandal . Even the NY Slimes is beginning to see the issue (of course they knew this 3 years ago but ignored the obvious in their effort to see Trump taken down . This is about the Steele Dossier . How was the information in it so wrong ? :

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Another possibility — one that Mr. Steele has not ruled out — could be Russian disinformation. That would mean that in addition to carrying out an effective attack on the Clinton campaign, Russian spymasters hedged their bets and placed a few land mines under Mr. Trump’s presidency as well.Oleg D. Kalugin, a former K.G.B. general who now lives outside Washington, saw that as plausible. “Russia has huge experience in spreading false information,” he said.

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Since the other possibility suggested in the article ;that it was a bad game of 'telephone'(where messages get distorted as a message goes from one teller to the other ) is too idiotic to believe . Then it had to be that false messages were deliberately communicated to Steele from his Russian sources . He in turn added them without any verification .

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Last year, in a deposition in a lawsuit filed against Buzzfeed, Mr. Steele emphasized that his reports consisted of unverified intelligence. Asked whether he took into account that some claims might be Russian fabrications, he replied, “Yes.”F.B.I. agents considered whether Russia had polluted the stream of intelligence, but did not give it much credence, according to the former official.But that is an issue to which multiple inquiries are likely to return. There has been much chatter among intelligence experts that Mr. Steele’s Russian informants could have been pressured to feed him disinformation.Daniel Hoffman, a former C.I.A. officer who served in Moscow, said he had long suspected the dossier was contaminated by Russian fabrications. The goal, he said, would be to deepen American divisions and blur the line between truth and falsehood.“How many times have hearings on Capitol Hill used information from the dossier?” Mr. Hoffman said. “How much damage has it already caused?”

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I'll tell you how much damage .The dossier was passed along to the emperor's Justice and Security agencies who accepted the intel on blind faith . Top FBI agents then leaked the dossier to reporters they trusted .These reporters wanting to knee-cap Trump in any way possible started reporting info in the dossier again without any secondary verification. THEN the FBI ,armed with the dossier ;and secondary sources (the reports they fed to their buddies in the press) went to the FISA courts to get warrants to spy on the Trump campaign .
What was the FBI doing ? They were executing the 'insurance policy ' that Peter Strzok texted to Lisa Page about to ensure Trump would not become President .

CNN digging up the past . …

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A legitimate question Republicans are asking is whether the potential "collusion" narrative was invented to cover up the Obama administration's failures. Two years have been spent fomenting the idea that Russia only interfered because it had a willing, colluding partner: Trump. Now that Mueller has popped that balloon, we must ask why this collusion narrative was invented in the first place.

Given Obama's record on Russia, one operating theory is that his people needed a smokescreen to obscure just how wrong they were. They've blamed Trump.

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https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/19/o...NTrb6IRuiDqUmU

Never forget the real scandal here: The world’s most powerful law enforcement/intelligence apparatus was weaponized to sabotage a rival presidential campaign & then to try to oust the duly elected president of the U.S. Everything else is just noise.

Yes but they can't be very powerful, they didn't succeed

The real threat is Russia helped the dufus, and he wants them to help him again, and why wouldn't they? It worked so well before.

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The real threat is Russia helped the dufus, and he wants them to help him again, and why wouldn't they? It worked so well before.

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Mr. Mueller disagreed with you.

Why would they want Trump. He has done more than any President since Reagan to stall Russian ambitions . What we need is another Church Committee type of Congressional investigation looking into the FBI and CIA behavior .The Church committee looked into civil rights abuses by the intelligence ,law enforcement ,and national security agencies . We know that this originated at the top levels of the agencies and there was little involvement in the rank and file of the agencies . We also know how the MSM colluded to report leaked information by the leaders of the agencies for the purpose of providing these agencies with secondary confirmation of the misinformation these agencies were peddling.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Mr. Mueller disagreed with you.

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According to his report, Russia worked on many levels against Hillary and for the dufus, and Vlad admitted he favored the dufus as prez in Helsinki. Not sure what you were reading.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Why would they want Trump. He has done more than any President since Reagan to stall Russian ambitions . What we need is another Church Committee type of Congressional investigation looking into the FBI and CIA behavior .The Church committee looked into civil rights abuses by the intelligence ,law enforcement ,and national security agencies . We know that this originated at the top levels of the agencies and there was little involvement in the rank and file of the agencies . We also know how the MSM colluded to report leaked information by the leaders of the agencies for the purpose of providing these agencies with secondary confirmation of the misinformation these agencies were peddling.

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Has he? The dufus hasn't taken on inch of ground from Vlad, and has seceded Syria to the Russian/Iranian coalition. We can argue about your conspiracy theory, about misinformation, and that fake news meme the dufus spouts, but until you get to a court or OFFICIAL investigation the dufus and you have squat. Less than you had on Hillary for sure.

I think the theme of "I was robbed" has become old and tired, Hilliary was not robbed, certainly not by any small influence the Russians might have been able to exert. What won for Trump was a neglected electorate and an antiquated system of selecting a President.

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What won for Trump was a neglected electorate and an antiquated system of selecting a President.

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Another reason is distrust of people and parties who hold power for too long.

There are very good explanations for why voters rarely choose a president from the same party for three consecutive terms. You would have to go all the way back to 1836 to find a Democrat being elected to succeed afrom the same party (excluding Franklin Delano Roosevelt)...it was over before it began. Hillary and Obama lost because they were being ignant...too many mistakes made through being overconfident.

When I heard Obama snidely speak "Donald Trump will not be President"...(why would he say that?) it could only mean one thing, Trump would be President. It was as if he set himself (Hillary) up for failure.

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Originally Posted by waltero

Another reason is distrust of people and parties who hold power for too long.

There are very good explanations for why voters rarely choose a president from the same party for three consecutive terms. You would have to go all the way back to 1836 to find a Democrat being elected to succeed afrom the same party (excluding Franklin Delano Roosevelt)...it was over before it began. Hillary and Obama lost because they were being ignant...too many mistakes made through being overconfident.

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Yes, eight years is long enough for any party to lose momentum. Their program has been largely implemented by then and if not, it isn't going to happen. Mistakes have become very apparent in that time

I think Trump won because HC was such a weak candidate.

I think Waltero makes a great point as the incumbent party rarely gets a third consecutive term as president, Bush senior being my only recollection and he got dumped after one term. Social media has greatly changed the game though, and made us exploitable, and gives EVERYBODY a way to coalesce around new ideas and concept. Works the same way for the dastardly as the good guys.

Looking forward to the next vote.

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Works the same way for the dastardly as the good guys.

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There are good guys??

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

There are good guys??

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You're a good guy... aren't you? I think so, despite our differences of opinion and candidate choices.

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You're a good guy... aren't you? I think so, despite our differences of opinion and candidate choices.

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I feel the same way about you. As to pres candidates, I don't know of anyone I would refer to as having good character in either party other than Dr. Ben Carson, but he is not a candidate this time around.

LOL, I'm comfortable with Biden, Warren, Harris, and Kobashar, but Carson is a fish out of water that just doesn't impress me. Even the highly popular Saunders hasn't shown the pragmatism I favor to implement a reasonable plan in my estimation. I share his ideas, but the devil is in the details.

Well, if you are just looking at policies and not so much character, I'll stick with Trump. Kind of a low character guy, but then so were (in my view) HC and Obama. But he has hit on 2 of my three key issues. 1. healthy economy 2. nominate SC judges who believe in the Constitution. 3. balance the budget.

He has blown it on #3, which is huge, but then Obama went 0/3 and HC was too connected with his policies for me to consider.

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I think the theme of "I was robbed" has become old and tired, Hilliary was not robbed, certainly not by any small influence the Russians might have been able to exert. What won for Trump was a neglected electorate and an antiquated system of selecting a President.

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agree except there is nothing antiquated in the way we select the President .

I don't have the same bias against liberal judges versus conservative ones as you do, but the dirty trick by Slick Mitch bummed me out, even though I have nothing against Gorsuch at all. Every time I review some of these picks being pushed through now though, I cringe, as well as the fed picks and the cabinets. Too many scandals for me followed by resignations to avoid investigations. I worry when you let big corporations police themselves and a congress too dumb to even know what they're doing.

I tend to think long term strategy that quick fixes that can bite you later. I mean good grief we handled the Ebola and Zika outbreaks and we can't get a handle on Measles? Something is very wrong here lately.

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agree except there is nothing antiquated in the way we select the President .

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Exactly correct.

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a congress too dumb to even know what they're doing.

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I would tend to agree with that, even though I must point out the congress is controlled by democrats.

Explain the factual accuracy of that last line please.