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  • Mar 15, 2019, 05:55 AM
    paraclete
    NZ terror attack
    https://www.news.com.au/world/pacifi...ca7c7e44c4728e

    It is a terrible event, we have come to expect this sort of thing from radicalised Muslims, but we have forgotten that there are other radicals among us, white supremacists, neo nazi and such like, and if there was ever a reason that assault weapons should be banned this it. Surely we have had enough of this. These terrorists didn't just have guns they also possessed bombs which weren't detonated

    So at least there are three more gutless terrorists off the streets.

    I hear that Trump has threatened people with his radical friends, he should really stick a plug in his mouth, then he can talk out of his backside which he does frequently

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-warns-it-would-be-very-bad-if-my-police-biker-gang-fans-decided-to-get-tough-on-my-opponents
  • Mar 15, 2019, 01:43 PM
    tomder55
    I thought NZ had strict gun laws ? Why didn't those laws prevent it ? Yeah there are radicals on all sides and the shooter should be put down like the mad dog he is. ... But consider that elected officials have taken a nonchalant position on what is becoming national crisis's around the world …. the issue is uncontrolled mass migration into nations . That I believe is the main thrust of the shooter's so called manifesto . I can assure you that as horrible as the death toll is in this case ,it does not compare to the (estimated by politifact ) 600 homicides committed in the US annually by illegals . A nation has a right and an obligation to protect it's borders . If the nation won't then eventually a nut job is likely to think he has to take it into his own hands .
  • Mar 15, 2019, 02:04 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    I thought NZ had strict gun laws ? Why didn't those laws prevent it ? Yeah there are radicals on all sides and the shooter should be put down like the mad dog he is. ... But consider that elected officials have taken a nonchalant position on what is becoming national crisis's around the world …. the issue is uncontrolled mass migration into nations . That I believe is the main thrust of the shooter's so called manifesto . I can assure you that as horrible as the death toll is in this case ,it does not compare to the (estimated by politifact ) 600 homicides committed in the US annually by illegals . A nation has a right and an obligation to protect it's borders . If the nation won't then eventually a nut job is likely to think he has to take it into his own hands .

    NZ apparently doesn't have gun laws as strict as ours, but that may change. How this terrorist obtained the weapons easily will need to be answered. The point of migration in a place like NZ is moot, there isn't uncontrolled migration except emigration to OZ, we are forever sending their criminals back to them. What is disgusting in this is comments by Australia Senator Fraiser Anning, but he may pay at the ballot box. This act was allegedly in reaction to what has happened in Europe and the atrocities committed by Muslims there but it was a cowardly act. I agree with you regarding the obligation of a nation to protect its borders
  • Mar 15, 2019, 02:22 PM
    Wondergirl
    How many homicides have been committed in the US annually by nativeborns? How many victims of mass murder by white men?
  • Mar 15, 2019, 02:27 PM
    tomder55
    non sequitur
  • Mar 15, 2019, 02:32 PM
    Wondergirl
    But food for thought....

    In case you didn't read it, the NZ terrorist, in his 73-page manifesto, specifically cited President Trump as an inspiration. His online manifesto praises Trump as “a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose.”
  • Mar 15, 2019, 02:42 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    How many homicides have been committed in the US annually by native borns? How many victims of mass murder by white men?

    Irrelevant, this isn't about white men, it isn't about where someone was born, it is about why anyone would commit a vicious act like this against people they do not know
  • Mar 15, 2019, 02:55 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    Irrelevant, this isn't about white men, it isn't about where someone was born, it is about why anyone would commit a vicious act like this against people they do not know

    His manifesto was filled with hatred for minorities (e.g., Muslims) and urged white supremacists to rid the world of them.
  • Mar 15, 2019, 04:55 PM
    jlisenbe
    Mass shooting in New Zealand. White people and Donald Trump are responsible. Wow, what a stretch. I hope to live long enough to see the day when people stop being so obsessed by race and more concerned with what's on the inside.

    This will, of course, be used to further restrict gun ownership in NZ.
  • Mar 15, 2019, 05:16 PM
    tomder55
    I dont read killers screeds .but I have heard excerpts . Manifesto implies a coherent political treatise .Calling it a manifesto elevates the importance of the ramblings and the person who authors it . I also place no legitimacy to his thoughts or motivations .He is nothing more than a mass murderer . If I was to take him seriously then I'd have to take his words seriously when he says that he chose guns because of the polarizing effect it would have on the US politics . He hoped to spark civil war here. You should think twice about suggesting his thoughts and Trump's the same .
  • Mar 15, 2019, 05:40 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    I dont read killers screeds .but I have heard excerpts . Manifesto implies a coherent political treatise .Calling it a manifesto elevates the importance of the ramblings and the person who authors it . I also place no legitimacy to his thoughts or motivations .He is nothing more than a mass murderer . If I was to take him seriously then I'd have to take his words seriously when he says that he chose guns because of the polarizing effect it would have on the US politics . He hoped to spark civil war here. You should think twice about suggesting his thoughts and Trump's the same .

    To think that committing an act of terrorism in NZ is some sort of commentary on the US is lunacy, and clearly this person is a lunatic. No doubt there are many fringe dwellers in the US but they need no incitement from outside to commit heinous acts.

    I think we have to take all militant minorities seriously and stop using them for political purposes as Trump did recently. All of these acts are an answer to aggression and the way to stop them is to stop interfering in other nations, How is that for thinking twice
  • Mar 15, 2019, 06:58 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    I dont read killers screeds .but I have heard excerpts . Manifesto implies a coherent political treatise .Calling it a manifesto elevates the importance of the ramblings and the person who authors it . I also place no legitimacy to his thoughts or motivations .He is nothing more than a mass murderer . If I was to take him seriously then I'd have to take his words seriously when he says that he chose guns because of the polarizing effect it would have on the US politics . He hoped to spark civil war here. You should think twice about suggesting his thoughts and Trump's the same .

    He is a white male mass murderer of brown people.

    Since he did what he wrote (and said) what he would do, then did it, methinks we have to take him seriously.

    Trump has said a number of positive things about white supremacists and the KKK and negative things about black and brown people. The mass murderer merely echoed Trump.
  • Mar 15, 2019, 07:09 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Trump has said a number of positive things about white supremacists and the KKK and negative things about black and brown people. .

    not true ,
  • Mar 15, 2019, 07:28 PM
    talaniman
    There have always been those nuts among us willing to do the most heinous of acts. Who cares why they do it be it the ISIS criminals, or a local supremist. They are lunatics that don't represent the vast majority of good humans. Obviously they are everywhere and can be anywhere. Unfortunately we cannot predict where or when they decide to kill, so the why is also a mystery. When you hate that much, no telling when or where it will come to fruition.

    Unfortunately it was NZ turn to feel the haters curse, that will shake us all for a long time to come. I'm not going so far as to blame the dufus and his over the top bully hate speech, words, and actions, because at best he is but a symptom of a much bigger problem that allows hate and fear to thrive and influence the lunatics to action. As a good thoughtful human this killer of the innocent falls very short, and for sure there are many others.

    I don't buy his lies and excuse that killed so many.
  • Mar 15, 2019, 08:01 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Trump has said a number of positive things about white supremacists and the KKK and negative things about black and brown people.
    Yeah. I'd love to hear all those positive things he said about WS and the KKK. I don't recall any of that. Also love to see the negative quotes as well.
  • Mar 15, 2019, 08:09 PM
    talaniman
    He said there were good people on both side speaking of the white nationalist and protesters in Charlottesville, and he made Muslims the enemy when he said Islam hates America. Just to name two examples.
  • Mar 16, 2019, 03:22 AM
    tomder55
    You see how it works Clete . The left
    believes every bad thing in the world is the fault of Trump. So they take the outrageous attack in NZ and all but blame it on him .

    Here is the quote where he allegedly praised White Supremist after Charlottesville :

    Quote:

    "But we're closely following the terrible events unfolding in Charlottesville, Va.. We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides. It's been going on for a long time in our country. Not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. This has been going on for a long, long time. It has no place in America. What is vital now is a swift restoration of law and order and the protection of innocent lives. No citizen should ever fear for their safety and security in our society. And no child should ever be afraid to go outside and play or be with their parents and have a good time."I just got off the phone with the governor of Virginia, Terry Mcauliffe, and we agree that the hate and the division must stop, and must stop right now. We have to come together as Americans with love for our nation and true -- really, I say this so strongly, true affection for each other. Our country is doing very well in so many ways.

    You see .Since he did not specifically condemn white supremists he therefore supports them .

    The whole kkk thing was an ambush by the media . Trump had a history of condemning David Duke going back to 2000.
    In 2000, Trump told NBC’s “Today” that he wouldn’t seek the Reform Party nomination because he said the party was “self-destructing...………

    ” Matt LAUER: “When you say the party is self-destructing, what do you see as the biggest problem with the Reform Party right now?” Trump: “Well, you’ve got David Duke just joined – a bigot, a racist, a problem. I mean, this is not exactly the people you want in your party.”

    The New York Times also reported at the time that Trump issued a news release referring to Duke as “a Klansman” and not the “company I wish to keep.”

    Trump also spoke out against Duke in 1991 – three days after Duke lost a race for governor in Louisiana. CNN’s Larry KING: “Did the David Duke thing bother you? Fifty-five percent of the whites in Louisiana voted for him.” Trump: “I hate seeing what it represents, but I guess it just shows there’s a lot of hostility in this country. There’s a tremendous amount of hostility in the United States "


    But since he did not forcebly disavow Duke's support during the Presidential campaign ,he therefore supports the KKK.

    That's the left's bizzare logic.


    Recently David Duke tweeted praise for Rep Ilhan Omar's public statements against Israel
    : "By Defiance to Z.O.G. (Zionist Occupation Government) Ilhan Omar is NOW the most important Member of the US Congress!”

    I have heard no one in the left ,including prominent Jewish leaders like Schumer ,demanding that she condemn and disavow Duke's statements ,


  • Mar 16, 2019, 04:12 AM
    tomder55
    meanwhile the silence is deafening .
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/...i0cubFLBH6uj5Q


    https://guardian.ng/news/suspected-f...kaduna-sokoto/
  • Mar 16, 2019, 04:38 AM
    tomder55
    from Reuters :
    "Beyond his white nationalistic views, he claimed to be an environmentalist and said he is a fascist who believes China is the nation that most aligns with his political and social values."
  • Mar 16, 2019, 05:28 AM
    paraclete
    Indeed, I suspect they weren't muslim
  • Mar 16, 2019, 05:59 AM
    jlisenbe
    Tal, where did Trump say there were good people on both sides? He certainly didn't say it in the quote Tom posted above.
  • Mar 16, 2019, 06:09 AM
    tomder55
    He did say there were very fine people on both sides .And indeed there were on both the protest and counter protest . It is too easy and intellectually lazy to say that the protest only involved white racists and Antifa. Do you think the President said there were fine people in Antifa too ? The context of Trump's comment was that there were pro-statue, anti-statue people assembled there . Trump also said "
    "I've condemned neo-Nazis. I've condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists, by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee."
  • Mar 16, 2019, 08:15 AM
    tomder55
    did you see the snowflake from NYU confront Chelsea Clinton at a vigil for the victims and blame her for the attack because she spoke out against anti-Semitism ? The left is going insane here . And of course Chelsea being a good lib could not defend herself .
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaMnmgZ9zSA
  • Mar 16, 2019, 08:59 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    did you see the snowflake from NYU confront Chelsea Clinton at a vigil for the victims and blame her for the attack because she spoke out against anti-Semitism ? The left is going insane here . And of course Chelsea being a good lib could not defend herself .
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaMnmgZ9zSA

    But the right is locked and loaded, and massacring people at places of worship. Of course the dufus blows it off as a small group of people and the Aussie senator says it's because of an invasion of foreigners.
  • Mar 16, 2019, 09:23 AM
    tomder55
    Both Trump and the Aussie Senator are correct. I can't tell you how many times I was corrected when I said things like Islamic terrorist that it was unfair to smear a whole group for the actions of a small group.
  • Mar 16, 2019, 09:47 AM
    jlisenbe
    It's funny how when a Moslem does something, we are reminded a million times that they are not representative of all Moslems, but should a white person do something, then all white people and Trump get pulled into it. You wait in vain for a liberal to tell us that very few white people are racist terrorists.
  • Mar 16, 2019, 10:23 AM
    talaniman
    Spare me the boohoo victim stuff. I never said anything about all white people. The dufus and the senator were stoking hate and fear from their right wing constituents and they are both wrong for the rhetoric. They put themselves in it by opening their big mouths and the dufus does it daily.

    Disgusting.
  • Mar 16, 2019, 04:00 PM
    jlisenbe
    Yeah. Thank goodness no liberal democrats engage in stoking hate and fear.

    Every loyal republican can stand up and say with happiness, "Thank goodness we are not the party of Maxine Waters, AOC, Ilhan Omar, and other similar hate-filled crazies."
  • Mar 16, 2019, 04:23 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Both Trump and the Aussie Senator are correct. I can't tell you how many times I was corrected when I said things like Islamic terrorist that it was unfair to smear a whole group for the actions of a small group.

    You actually think that dingbat bottom feeder Anning is correct? It is like saying migration is an excuse for blowing away people you don't like. There is a big difference between a community that would not condemn terrorists in their midst and a deranged gunman who was so much of a coward he went to a foreign country to carry out his atrocity.. Dump should not connect the dots either, he should have better sense, but then he lacks leadership
  • Mar 16, 2019, 04:52 PM
    tomder55
    He didn't . He responded to a specific question
  • Mar 16, 2019, 05:45 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    He didn't . He responded to a specific question

    Then he should learn to say no comment.
  • Mar 16, 2019, 06:01 PM
    talaniman
    Pound another egg on the idiots head! Yeah I know its wrong, but appropriate!
  • Mar 16, 2019, 09:47 PM
    paraclete
    Could not agree more, however, you cannot just assault someone otherwise you are no better than the terrorist. We need a system of weeding out idiots before they are elected

    https://www.news.com.au/national/pol...38c31e87c86b15

    obviously the system we have isn't idiot proof
  • Mar 17, 2019, 08:41 AM
    talaniman
    Ours system is substantially flawed, or maybe we have too many idiots.
  • Mar 17, 2019, 10:59 AM
    tomder55
    During a press conference Friday,Trump was asked if he sees " that white nationalism is a rising threat around the world?" His response was
    "I don't really. I think it's a small group of people that have very, very serious problems, I guess,"

    If he was asked about Muslim terrorism and gave that response he would've been praised .
  • Mar 17, 2019, 11:48 AM
    jlisenbe
    You cannot please the Trump haters. His answer was right on target, but that doesn't matter to them.
  • Mar 17, 2019, 02:19 PM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    During a press conference Friday,Trump was asked if he sees " that white nationalism is a rising threat around the world?" His response was
    "I don't really. I think it's a small group of people that have very, very serious problems, I guess,"

    If he was asked about Muslim terrorism and gave that response he would've been praised .

    No he would, and it would be his normal tone deaf lying insult.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    You cannot please the Trump haters. His answer was right on target, but that doesn't matter to them.

    Only to the right wing noise machine that gorges on his lies like hungry ants at a picnic.
  • Mar 17, 2019, 02:21 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Only to the right wing noise machine that gorges on his lies like hungry ants at a picnic.
    Just more TDS.
  • Mar 17, 2019, 03:24 PM
    talaniman
    At least after this horrendous tragedy NZ will look to tighten already strict gun laws, unlike here where we give sympathy and prayers after mass shootings even if they are our kids.
  • Mar 17, 2019, 04:25 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    At least after this horrendous tragedy NZ will look to tighten already strict gun laws, unlike here where we give sympathy and prayers after mass shootings even if they are our kids.

    And arm "the good guys."

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