As Trump continues to dismantle NATO which is critical to the peace of the world and has been for 70 years, and as Trump continues to cater to the Putin enemy who is determined to bring down the United States and its allies, it is time to talk seriously about impeachment.

No longer should decent people do nothing about the daily lies that come out of the mouth of the evil person running America and, with the assistance of his sycophants, ignore the dismantling of policies that have been in place for decades.

Can anyone with even a speck of goodness in their heart watch as Trump carries out the horror of taking children away from their families and either refusing, or unable, to bring them together - even at the order of a court?

It is past time to act on the criminality of Donald Trump. It is high time to impeach him and remove him from the presidency.

If we impeach because we don't like a decision, all Presidents will be impeached. Anarchy will ensue. This is not a pro-Trump statement. This President is not conventional nor will he stand by on something he disagrees with. The issue of foreigners walking into this country illegally was not caused by Trump. If you don't like the law, change the law. It's a rational argument.

"Dismantle NATO" might be Pelosi'esk drama.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oliver2011

If we impeach because we don't like a decision,

---

We impeach because Trump is a crook, a liar, a grifter who has violated the emoluments rule, an obstructor of justice and a treasonous president who threatens to withdraw from NATO to appease our enemy Putin.

Quote:

---

all Presidents will be impeached. Anarchy will ensue.

---

This statement is mind-bogglingly ignorant. ALL PRESIDENT WILL BE IMPEAChED. Huh ?? ANARCHY WILL ENSUE. Huh ?? Get a high-school history book. Previous presidents have been impeached without ALL being impeached and without anarchy ensuing.

Quote:

---

This is not a pro-Trump statement.

---

It sure smells like one.

Quote:

---

This President is not conventional

---

You're just finding that out? "Not conventional" is a nice way of saying nutcase. But this is not a pro-Trump statement. No, not much.

Quote:

---

The issue of foreigners walking into this country illegally was not caused by Trump.

---

How about reading what I wrote? Separating children from their families was DIRECTLY caused by Trump. DIRECTLY! He walked it back because the entire planet was disgusted by what he did. [/QUOTE]

Quote:

---

If you don't like the law, change the law. It's a rational argument.

---

Only people like you distract from the child horrors by changing the subject to "the law". "It's a rational argument", you say. Precisely the strategy used by Trump - when you get caught in an obvious evil, change the subject. But, of course, you're not a Trump supporter!

Quote:

---

"Dismantle NATO" might be Pelosi'esk drama.

---

When in doubt and you don't have an answer, just bring up Pelosi - or Clinton. It has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion but it's part of the Trump strategy. Good that you're not a Trump supporter.

Thank you. Your argument is without merit and it reeks of MSNBC. I did not vote for Trump. I have never or would I ever vote for a Clinton. This was the first time in my voting life that I haven't voted for President. While I appreciate what he has done for the economy and my industry, his approach to people and issues disgusts me. A President has to be someone who brings people together and he is anything but. But unlike you I can appreciate the good and the bad without articulating what I heard on MSNBC. Now would be a good time to take a cheap shot about the fact that the Clintons should be in jail for life, but I won't go there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oliver2011

Thank you. Your argument is without merit

---

I notice you did not have a single rational thought to challenge my "without merit" argument. Typical!

Quote:

---

I have never or would I ever vote for a Clinton.

---

Who said anything about Clinton? You people simply can't open your mouth without bringing up Clinton.

Quote:

---

While I appreciate what he has done for the economy

---

He has done NOTHING for the economy. As any economist will tell you if you cared to seek the truth, Trump inherited an economy that was already recovering due to Obama's actions. Even right-wing economists will tell you that. What he HAS done vis-a-vis the economy is to dangerously toy with tariffs in a game he is not remotely qualified to play. Already signs of his destructive games are beginning to show, but it's a bit early to see the whole picture.

Quote:

---

I can appreciate the good and the bad without articulating what I heard on MSNBC.

---

WHAT good? You make claims but do not back them up with a single thing. You badly need to educate yourself. You need more than ad hominems. And how did MSNBC get into this? Would you prefer FOX?

Quote:

---

Now would be a good time to take a cheap shot about the fact that the Clintons should be in jail for life, but I won't go there.

---

There you go again - that Clinton thing! So glad you decided not to take a cheap shot that the Clintons should be in jail for life. You won't go there, you said. You're not at all clever but you are comical.

What is this; a wish list? Trump putting the squeeze on allies doesn't warrant impeachment, it warrants applause when it falls in the right places. Trump meeting Putin doesn't warrant impeachment, it warrants applause to reduce dangerous rhetoric. Bull in a china shop diplomacy seems to work, strangely enough. Sometimes allies need to be reminded who is providing the umbrella. However, there should be consideration of why that umbrella is necessary. Very soon China will be shipping goods through Russia to Europe so Donald will have more to be upset about as the Germans get their VW from China. Has a certain irony, doesn't it

Currently there are no grounds for impeachment in my opinion, of this president, AT THIS TIME, but that could change after the Mueller investigations concludes, or we get more facts from the various other lawsuits and court cases that he is or may be involved in. Certainly seems like a lot of them I have to say.

I think more disturbing is the antics of certain house members both in open hearings, and person conduct and closed interviews that clearly by design makes them sycophants of the Dufus in question. It's silly season folks and the gloves came off last year. For my money I think I trust Peter Strzok and his record better than ANY repub in the house right now. Interesting they point out his BIAS, and ignore their OBVIOUS bias.

No comment on the "Typical" Dufus antics overseas which clearly was unacceptable on many levels as what would you expect from a proven lying, cheating, loudmouth Dufus! Am I biased? Darn Skippy.

Quote:

---

Am I biased?

---

I thought that was a given, tal, however donald has been very opiniated in his sweep through Europe, without Kim to taunt he must find someone else and the two looser ladies of Europe seem ideal targets

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/cart...e-38087106.jpg

NATO countries commit to spend 2% of GDP on the common defense . How many of them actually honor that ?
USA 3.6% of GDP and the libs here complain about that all the time .
UK 2.1%
Poland 2.0%
Greece 2.4%
Estonia 2.1%

THAT's IT folks !

21 nations in NATO do not live up to their commitment and some rich countries are pathetically behind .
Germany 1.2 %
Canada 1.3%

I think NATO still has a role . But it's time for the nations of Europe to pony up .

In what way has he catered to Putin ? By stationing thousands of US troops in Poland ? By US leading NATO war games in the Baltics ? By wacking Russian "mercenaries " in Syria ? By adding new sanctions to Putty's cronies in Russia

after the U.K. poisoning

? By threatening sanctions against Saudi Arabia and Qatar for considering buying Russian arms ? By trying to get Germany to end it's energy relationship with Russia via a pipeline ? By pressuring the Saudis to pump more crude which would lower world wide oil prices which would harm Russia's economy. By taking a hard line against the Russia alliance with the Mullahs in Tehran?

I think he is right, Putin is a competitor and that is the way to view him. Russia isn't in a position to dominate the world but he does have a sphere of influence and he will stir the pot. Tehran is a Russian client, has been for a long time. The Saudi have bought a lot of US arms but maybe there is something cheap the US don't have. The oil card has been played before but it also harms the Saudi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomder55

NATO countries commit to spend 2% of GDP on the common defense . How many of them actually honor that ?
USA 3.6% of GDP and the libs here complain about that all the time .
UK 2.1%
Poland 2.0%
Greece 2.4%
Estonia 2.1%

THAT's IT folks !

I think NATO still has a role . But it's time for the nations of Europe to pony up .

---

The 2% figure is a GOAL to be reached by 2024 - SIX YEARS FROM NOW!

Come on, Tom, you knew that.

(BTW, clueless Donald has upped it to 4% - he thinks NATO is a Manhattan condo development.)

even the emperor blasted NATO members for not living up to their commitments .

"If we’ve got collective defense, it means that everybody’s got to chip in, and I have had some concerns about a diminished level of defense spending among some of our partners in NATO. "....

"The situation in Ukraine reminds us that our freedom isn’t free, and we’ve got to be willing to pay for the assets, the personnel, the training that’s required to make sure that we have a credible NATO force and an effective deterrent force," "So one of the things that I think, medium and long term, we’ll have to examine, is whether everybody is chipping in.".....

"I want to take this opportunity to commend Greece for being one of the five NATO allies that spends 2 percent of GDP on defense, a goal that we have consistently set but not everybody has met,” “Greece has done this even during difficult economic times. If Greece can meet this NATO commitment, all our NATO allies should be able to do so,”

The cost of these commitments is massive borrowing or taxes, Greece would make an insignificant contribution in a conflict but it has long borders to police. You have to consider that some of these economies are bankrupt, not FREERIDER Germany but others like Bulgaria and therefore front line states might benefit while paying a little less. Trump is right about the germans they are gaming the system. A number of poor states were allowed into EU and NATO for convenience and strategic convenience, Trump fails to recognise this

Reacting to Obama being voted best modern president, Trump is enraged and sinks deeper into madness by tweeting that polls show him to be the most popular Republican, even polling higher than Lincoln (sic). He probably polls 100% in Russia.

As a guest of the UK, Trump undermines Prime Minister May by declaring he may "do an economic deal" with the EU instead of the UK after Brexit. He is single-handedly destroying a centuries-old alliance with the United Kingdom. This is perfectly in tune with Russian foreign policy, right after dismantling NATO which Trump is in the process of accomplishing.

Before he isolates America further, he must be impeached.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomder55

"If we’ve got collective defense, it means that everybody’s got to chip in, and I have had some concerns about a diminished level of defense spending among some of our partners in NATO. "....

"The situation in Ukraine reminds us that our freedom isn’t free, and we’ve got to be willing to pay for the assets, the personnel, the training that’s required to make sure that we have a credible NATO force and an effective deterrent force," "So one of the things that I think, medium and long term, we’ll have to examine, is whether everybody is chipping in.".....

---

Thank you for quoting Obama who has surveyed as the greatest modern president.

The Dufus taking his racist attitude to Europe is a total abomination. You can parse this anyway you want to, but tying immigration policy, here and abroad to loss of culture is stirring the pot of emotional animus and combined with his landlord collecting the rent he wants to be raised tactics, is a disgusting and shameful public display as ever been witnessed. Combined with his previous words and actions on the domestic front and the farce of watching his sycophants perform on live TV yesterday, it's small wonder that calls for impeaching the lying buffoon in chief pervade from the left.

Be aware though that this isn't about Europe, NATO, Immigration, or anything else except keeping his own power base here in America in line behind him. He can't rule the world without a congress that has his back. That's the end game folks, keeping what he got, and the right wing loony base is in power.

That's his only hope for survival, because he needs the cover of politics to enrich himself at the government teat, and get away with it. The rest of the show is just NOISE. You got it right Clete, The Trump Circus is probably the greatest show on EARTH. Let's not confuse it with real governing, or seeking mutually agreeable solutions to real problems.

Sorry but you righties are but a tough coalition of desperate conservatives, disenfranchised racists, and truly partisan hacks looking for legitimacy, and attention. As biased as you claim EVERYBODY else that's against you! I know, feels good to be paid attention too doesn't it?

You are obscessed, however you are right in that Trump can't present you to the world in this manner or they will learn the truth about the nation of meglomaniacs who would rule the world. It is no wonder the world arms itsself

Obsessed is such an exaggeration to my personal campaign to speak truth to power and following FACTS. I will admit it's far more enjoyable to throw rocks at The Dufus, than defend Obama from the loony right, a noisy minority, as opposed to us centrist reasonable people who look for reasonable solutions.

It's my DUTY, and responsibility as an American citizen to vote my interest that moves us forward on a good path and I just don't think that's what The Dufus and his sycophants are doing. To remain silent is not an option either, so obsession is an inaccurate description of my postings, since it's a lying, cheating, loudmouth bully that I am talking about.

Patriotic would be more to the point, and I do try to keep it about FACTS. The Dufus has a history of those facts which backs up my contention he is a self aggrandizing moron, who uses power to bask in its glory while he loots coffers with the help of the ignorant. Hmmm maybe I am obsessed with ridding the land of this threat of freedom and security, and unity that we have thrived on slowly but surely in this country.

I apologize Clete, you are correct, I am obsessed with standing against the Dufus and his bully boys.

Quote:

---

As a guest of the UK, Trump undermines Prime Minister May by declaring he may "do an economic deal" with the EU instead of the UK after Brexit. He is single-handedly destroying a centuries-old alliance with the United Kingdom. This is perfectly in tune with Russian foreign policy, right after dismantling NATO which Trump is in the process of accomplishing.

---

Trump told the truth about May and the way she is screwing up Brexit. She is days away from a vote of confidence and that has nothing to do with Trump or the Russians .I doubt if the Tories would back her in a new election .

No ;what is destroying England and the EU is uncontrolled migration . With Brexit they have a chance to get control .

At least she is taking a hard line about the Russians poisoning Brits .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomder55

Trump told the truth about May and the way she is screwing up Brexit. She is days away from a vote of confidence and that has nothing to do with Trump or the Russians .I doubt if the Tories would back her in a new election .

No ;what is destroying England and the EU is uncontrolled migration . With Brexit they have a chance to get control .

At least she is taking a hard line about the Russians poisoning Brits .

---

Please elaborate on your statements as I am interested in the facts of why you believe that immigration is destroying England and the EU, (And America?) and what is her mishandling of Brexit. Right wing hollering points based on FEAR, are not facts, nor will lead to a solution or reasonable process. I mean extricating ones self from a long held trade practice, and replacing it with new infrastructures is a HUGE logistical nightmare.

Wonder when the Dufus will take a hardline on poisoning Brits after this last episode?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by talaniman

Please elaborate on your statements as I am interested in the facts of why you believe that immigration is destroying England and the EU, (And America?) and what is her mishandling of Brexit. Right wing hollering points based on FEAR, are not facts, nor will lead to a solution or reasonable process. I mean extricating ones self from a long held trade practice, and replacing it with new infrastructures is a HUGE logistical nightmare.

Wonder when the Dufus will take a hardline on poisoning Brits after this last episode?

---

What part of too many Muslims don't you get? Culture clash? Lack of skills? Lawlessness, terrorism?

What will he make of the victim possessing the agent? another Russian incursion into Britain?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paraclete

What part of too many Muslims don't you get? Culture clash? Lack of skills? Lawlessness, terrorism?

What will he make of the victim possessing the agent? another Russian incursion into Britain?

---

>Delete profanity about loony right wing bigotry<

May is letting the EU dicate the terms of the Brit withdrawal . She is slow walking it and watering it down and frankly hopes it will go away . If she remains in power I predict the invoking of Article 50 will be revoked . So much for the will of the people. As for migration... this influx will change the culture of the nation the likes it hasn't seen since the Norman invasion .

I don't see the queen changing her tea time anytime soon.

The Queen is remote from any of it and may be even respected by all her subjects, she makes no war on anyone, perhaps american presidents could learn from her example, but immigration has been a serious problem for Britain and this is what triggered brexit. Britain needs to walk away from the EU and its creeping socialism and if there is a hard landing Britain has friends in other places and there will be many making a beeline for her door. The EU will eventually embrace Russia because of energy and it is just reality

The queen lives insular in a castle . The population which already is behind the 8 ball with the socialist system are paying a heavy price for the strain on the public services .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomder55

The queen lives insular in a castle . The population which already is behind the 8 ball with the socialist system are paying a heavy price for the strain on the public services .

---

Yes a strain made greater by freeloading migrants and the EU. The Queen is not unaware of affairs domestic or international, she is informed by the government of the day, but is a head of state not a politician. What do you think the White House is? A beach bungalow?

The Presidency is an executive function that has grown in power well beyond what was intended because the legislative branch has ceded power to the executive and the permanent bureaucratic state . In no way can the Presidency be compared to the freeloaders at Buckingham Palace .

That may well be the case but as Clete alluded The announcement of the indictment goes well beyond just a weekend news dump or distraction from the partisan house hearing farce. I believe it possible it was timed intentionally so The Dufus had the TRUTH to take with him before the meeting with his buddy Vlad. What he does with it will be telling, as he mulls it over this weekend.

A feckless congress is still our biggest problem though, and the founders, even though I fully believe that they knew over time, things would certainly change, would be horrified at the current version of what they created.

We will never get the Russians in court, but there is more to be revealed for sure. We should not let the Dufus gloss over these recent indictments with his slick talk and lies and blaming everybody else because he does have a DUTY to protect us from the actions of his boyfriend Vlad.

What will he do is the question. You have my solution...pimp slap the beetch!

Quote:

---

and the founders, even though I fully believe that they knew over time, things would certainly change, would be horrified at the current version of what they created.

---

Washington knew . He walked out of the only time he visited Congress and never returned .

Quote:

---

because he does have a DUTY to protect us from the actions of his boyfriend Vlad.

---

every President since Roosevelt has had multiple sit downs and summits with their Russian counterpart . That's the jaw jaw jaw part that prevents the war war war part .

Your side is out of control nutty over the Ruskies . I thought I was the cold warrior here . I remember clearly the massive demonstration by the left against Reagan's plan to put Pershings in Europe. Now you guys want us to cross the border with our 1% GDP armed allies to have an existential confrontation with them .

As bad as Putty is ,he is no Stalin . Roosevelt met with that mass murderer a number of times and supplied him with a critical arms supply that kept his regime in power for another almost 60 years .


We need to work with the Russians ,like it or not ,on areas of similar interests even if we consider them a hostile competitor … like ending the Syrian conflict ; getting our troops out of Afghanistan (right now going through Russia is our only option) ,denuclearizing the NORKS ,checking China ,and taking care of the Iranian regime. and of course we have similar interests in defeating jihadistan .

Russia doesn't have troops on our border unless you consider that short hop across the Bering Strait . US troops conduct war games right on their border in Poland and the Baltics .We actively seek more NATO expansion right on their border . We wage war on their border in Afghanistan . Iran is on their border and we have had a proxy war with them since 1979 .The NORKS are on their border and relations with them could go any which way depending on which time of the month it is ,or if un Kim is in a good or bad mood. The emperor told Putty that we were only going into Libya for humanitarian reasons. That is why Putty agreed to the UN resolution okaying it . Turns out the emperor lied to him . We went in their to wack QDaffy .Sorta puts us on the wrong side of the trust ledger . Oh yeah and we sent covert ops into Ukraine to influence their election .

Don't get me wrong . I despise him and only wish he would meet the same horrible fate as some of his nuclear poisoning victims . But the fact is we have no choice but to deal with Russia . So your sides logic of putting the blame on him for the fact that your candidate sucked and couldn't even hold on to the coalition of voters that loved her thieving ,lying ,hubby is irrational

You and the Dufus spin good fiction. Maybe a book deal is in your future. Screw Vlad and his oligarchs. He is a murderous thug criminal dictator. Enriching him is the last thing you should do given the current state of affairs. He is no competitor in free trade, and the money doesn't go to his nation or the people. We both know that is a FACT.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.38cac93634d3

On this I agree with The Dufus, so please read up on the Panama Papers, and get a perspective where his money goes and understand the bind the Europeans are in with their energy needs. Understand also Vlad's role in destabilizing not just our political system, but many other nations as well. I mean would he be propping up another dog dictator like Assad were it not for his military base in the Mediterranean?

So we should think before we get in bed with this dictator or any other because cooperation with a snake will get you bit. War and poverty are the causes of migration, and loyalties and bodies for armies have been bought because of both. Those are the facts of human history and modern times.

The worse thing about a fox in the hen house, is TWO! The beneficiary of any deal is the Dufus, surpassed only by Vlad, as far as this conversation is concerned. There are many others. Merkel is in a pickle all right, as she has wolves surrounding her. You can rationalize away the global right wing nationalistic movement away all you want, but it's the hottest geo-political game in the world.

Maybe Vlad is the Dufus's competitor (Vlad, NOT Russia) because they both want to be at the top of the heap calling the shots. You lose when that happens. We're losing now, you just won't admit it.

Quote:

---

We're losing now, you just won't admit it.

---

You are right Tal you are losing and it might be because of Trump trade policies, but everyone wins if we go back to detaunte with Russia, so liven up and smell the roses, I assume you have roses over there

honestly ? The narrative that Trump and Putin colluded to steal the American election is fiction LeCarre ,and Flemming couldn't conger up in their best days as authors .Vlad is just the latest version of the Russian Czar ,and McCain has it right when he says Putty runs a gas station. That's why I want fracking and energy independence ;not to enrich Putty but to bury him. I'll say it again EVERY President since and including Roosevelt have had summits and meetings with their Russian counterpart . Your side hates Trump so much that you are willing to put our 2 nations on the brink again .It is a very dangerous path .You've so muddied the waters to a point where on both sides (here and in Russia) it is politically dangerous to conduct simple diplomacy . You think Putty doesn't have critics who think he's too soft on the US ?Like I said ,what happened in Libya looks like betrayal to many people in the Kremlin.

He hates Trump, he hates Putin, I beginning to wonder who does he like, only has-been's and want-to-be's, Libya is a mistake Putin won't make again. What does it matter if Putin sells energy, in this he is a competitor but of a different kind, one who is buying hearts and minds with some gas to cook with, this is something the US can't do

We’ve gone through a week where Trump was supposedly destroying the Western alliance, allegedly at Putin’s bidding, at the same time the president was forcefully advocating two policies anathema to the Kremlin...... More European defense spending and opposition to the Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

My one concern about the upcoming meeting is that I doubt Trump is properly briefed before the meeting . Kennedy was taken to school in his 1st meeting with Nikita Khrushchev .Khrushchev came out of that meeting sure that Kennedy was weak ;and that I'm sure played a part of his calculations that led to the Berlin and later the Cuban missile crisis . So it will be vital that there be no misspeak that can be wrongly interpreted by Putin. So far on this trip Trump's blunt and unschooled style has been a mixed bag of success and embarrassment. He cannot afford any such ambiguity during his meeting with Puty

I think it falacy to assume Russia and the US are equal either militarily or economically, Putin knows this and so does Trump. He can afford to be magnaminous and firm, simply telling Vlad what he told Kim, nuclear disarmament should be the long term goal. They can both agree an end to the war in Syria, the US can take a more neutral stance on the Ukraine and maybe call off some games, after all, the problem is one of EU making. A little common sense on both sides and everyone wins

Nothing will come of this meeting, just as nothing came of the meeting with Kim. It's just publicity and a photo op for the walls of Mara Lago and the rest of Trumps properties, so he can raise the rent. World leaders should talk, but The Dufus has no strategy, long or short term, other than building a Trump Tower in Moscow. Or maybe he is asking for asylum, for when he gets impeached for being a feckless Dufus, or the law catches him in his dirt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by talaniman

Nothing will come of this meeting, just as nothing came of the meeting with Kim. It's just publicity and a photo op for the walls of Mara Lago and the rest of Trumps properties, so he can raise the rent. World leaders should talk, but The Dufus has no strategy, long or short term, other than building a Trump Tower in Moscow. Or maybe he is asking for asylum, for when he gets impeached for being a feckless Dufus, or the law catches him in his dirt.

---

Well Tal I see it as a ppositive that they are not shouting at each other. Vlad gives everyone asylum, he only has to ask. You are obscessed with impeachment but even if it happens dems still won't be in the White House, you backed the wrong horse and it's time to retire that one