That is certainly the question now in Australia as four Senators have been forced to declare dual citizenship and thus ineligibility

Each circumstance is bizzairre such as arrival as infants, being nominated for citizenship by your parent as an adult or the latest revelation that he revoked his citizenship but it wasn't acknowledged until after the election

Senator Malcolm Roberts dual citizenship in question

The government has passed some radical changes with the help of these now deposed senators and the whole structure of the next legislative session hangs in the balance, but the more interesting is that these erstwhile citizens are members of minor parties, no one in the major parties has owned up yet

Ah, Constitutions, they are hard to get around but apparently not as hard as some think

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Until the Parliament otherwise provides, the qualifications of a member of the House of Representatives shall be as follows:

• he must be of the full age of twenty-one years, and must be an elector entitled to vote at the election of members of the House of Representatives, or a person qualified to become such elector, and must have been for three years at the least a resident within the limits of the Commonwealth as existing at the time when he is chosen;
• he must be a subject of the Queen, either natural-born or for at least five years naturalized under a law of the United Kingdom, or of a Colony which has become or becomes a State, or of the Commonwealth, or of a State.

The qualifications of a Senator shall be the same as those of members of the House of Representatives

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A change to qualifications can be decided by the parliament, not by plebicite as some think, and does this mean a citizen of the UK or NZ is eligible, a somewhat vague clause, but the matter has since been resolved by many changes to citizenship, meaning no citizen of another country can hold a seat in federal parliament unless they have made all reasonable efforts to renounce citizenship of another country.

How do you renounce a citizenship you didn't know you had, a true dilema

guess your nation does not want Manchurian candidates .

Oh we have some chinese politicians, some english politicians, some kiwi politicians, some italian politicians, etc, australians all, we even have some politicians who are in the pocket of the chinese, our laws are designed in the days of terrorists to keep such allegiences to a minimum

Manchurian Candidate


NOUN

• A person who is (or is believed to be) brainwashed into becoming a subversive agent, especially an assassin.
  
  

Origin

1970s; earliest use found in The National Review. Popularized by the 1962 film The Manchurian Candidate, adapted from the 1959 novel of the same name by Richard Condon.

yes I wasn't speaking specifically of the nationality of the politician. Here the Constitution guards against a President with possible conflicts due to dual national loyalties .


yes I wasn't speaking specifically of the nationality of the politician. Here the Constitution guards against a President with possible conflicts due to dual national loyalties .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

yes I wasn't speaking specifically of the nationality of the politician. Here the Constitution guards against a President with possible conflicts due to dual national loyalties .
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Nor was I necessarily however recent events lead both ways
Labor reeling after Senate candidates China links find $120k for the party

Destyari and Robb are particular cases in point and might fit smoothy's definition. Our Constitution is also explicit at the federal level although there are some vagarities regarding the point at which dual nationality has been disgarded

This an annus horribilis, will no one rid me of these meddlesome Kiwi, in the latest of this citizenship, non-citizenship saga, Barnaby Joyce, leader of the Country Party, and deputy Prime Minister has been outed as a dual citizen because his father was born in New Zealand. This absolutely ridiculous, that means I have British citizenship automatically because my father was born in Britain, not withstanding that I am a sixth generation Australian. How come no one explained that to me when I was resident in Britain. The Constitution must be changed immediately to remove this disqualification from office of Australian citizens

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-1...ust-14/8802990

[COLOR=#333333]Here we go again, not only is the leader of the Country Party having citizenship problems but his deputy, Fiona Nash has been outed for being a scot. If this goes on the country will become ungovernable and we will have a constitutional crisis

This is a nation of migrants so the possibilities of dual citizenship are endless, but our founding fathers had some rediculous idea our linage had to be pure, an attempt long ago to stop this rot by including the words "or naturalised citizen" wasn't allowed, not that it would have solved the problem of parentage[/COLOR]

it may be an outmoded concept . I always thought the reason the American framers put in the provision for 'naturalized citizen ' was because of their hatred of Alexander Hamilton. He among all the framers deserved the chance to become President . But he was excluded because he was born in the Caribbean to a mixed race mom. I understand they were concerned about a'Manchurian Candidate' in the young republic . But in the 21st century ,that could be a provision to revisit .

It seems our Constitution might be outmoded in other ways too, but this is a real problem, legislation was recently lost on a 31-31 vote in the Senate, some Senators having being removed because of dual citizenship, now we are going to have a non binding plebisite, the actions of the government are being taken to the High Court for lack of clear legislation and the balance in the House hangs on the vote of these dual citizens so no legislation which doesn't have bi-partisan support can be introduced

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-1...-again/8816488

Unbelievable, another Senator, Nick Xenophon, leader of a minor party, is caught up in this debacle of citizenship through parenthood. Xenophon may be a british citizen because his father was born in Cyprus and may have had british citizenship. What I don't get about this nonsense is that at the time of writing the constitution we were all British subjects, but suddenly we are british citizens even though Britain severed its ties. How can the rights of an Australian born person be abrogated by the actions of another country?

you had your chance to go from a constitutional monarchy to a Federal Republic .


you had your chance to go from a constitutional monarchy to a Federal Republic .

The sins of the your founding fathers have come home to roost Clete. Don't you learned people have a way to fix your glitch?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

The sins of the your founding fathers have come home to roost Clete. Don't you learned people have a way to fix your glitch?

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Oh yes Tal, it is called a constitutional referendum, but the problem is who will frame the question and the terms in a parliament where the "majority" is in the hands of those who have been outed in this crisis. In a recent vote the Senate was divided 31-31 but now two of those votes are in doubt, and the one seat majority in the House rests with another whose vote is in doubt. We are then forced into bi-partisanism, an oft touted but rarely seen display of anything other than self interest

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Originally Posted by tomder55

you had your chance to go from a constitutional monarchy to a Federal Republic .

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and it will come again, but will it rest on a rewrite of this archaic document written with ideas borrowed from the United States or will our republic have a president appointed by the politicians, some eminent person. If the people decide we can have a republic, the last time the question was put they voted against it and we did not have a revolt. Very soon we will have an opportunity to gage the atmosphere for change when the question of same sex marriage is put to the people, I suspect our conservative values will be on show

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Oh yes Tal, it is called a constitutional referendum, but the problem is who will frame the question and the terms in a parliament where the "majority" is in the hands of those who have been outed in this crisis. In a recent vote the Senate was divided 31-31 but now two of those votes are in doubt, and the one seat majority in the House rests with another whose vote is in doubt. We are then forced into bi-partisanism, an oft touted but rarely seen display of anything other than self interest

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I guess your governing system is imperfect, and needs maintenance, and tweaking every now and then huh? I feel YA!

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I guess your governing system is imperfect, and needs maintenance, and tweaking every now and then huh? I feel YA!

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Yes, what was thought to be good two centuries, or, even one century ago, fails to embrace the realities of today. From my observation all governing systems are imperfect, but some work better than others. Making the leaders answerable to the parliament as ours does serves the purpose of moderation and ensuring decisions are common sense for the most part. Leaders cannot get away with fiat and whim without it being brought to debate very quickly, but attitudes have changed a great deal, and I think two world wars and the continuing threat of a third requires more that lip service to a founding document. It requires the over arching principles to be reinforced and if necessary, changed.

We must get away from this trial by media approach and get back to allowing those who govern to do so without corruption

Thankfully our forefathers had the vision to include mechanisms to amend the Constitution. Only one of them has been utilized . It's time to consider the other .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Thankfully our forefathers had the vision to include mechanisms to amend the Constitution. Only one of them has been utilized . It's time to consider the other .

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Yes us too, but amending our founding document has proven to be very difficult in the past, we have been debating forever on how to include recognition of indigenous persons without opening the floodgates for compensation claims and some sort of star chamber where they direct policy

Give them a seat at the table. Naw, you could NEVER do that because you would have to listen to their concerns. Only a racist could think that a seat or two according to population would lead to a minority directing policy. I guess you will have to keep suppressing them until you find that solution, that will keep suppressing them.

You can stop wasting your time "debating" because the present system works just fine doesn't it? The problem really is how to get MORE for you and less for them. Be easy if they would just bend a knee to your dominance and do as they were told. That would solve your problem wouldn't it?

We are alike in our racists democracies.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Give them a seat at the table. Naw, you could NEVER do that because you would have to listen to their concerns. Only a racist could think that a seat or two according to population would lead to a minority directing policy. I guess you will have to keep suppressing them until you find that solution, that will keep suppressing them.

You can stop wasting your time "debating" because the present system works just fine doesn't it? The problem really is how to get MORE for you and less for them. Be easy if they would just bend a knee to your dominance and do as they were told. That would solve your problem wouldn't it?

We are alike in our racists democracies.

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I think you are racist Tal, they are not excluded from the electoral process and have Senators and Representatives, but reserved seating is something else, so is the suggestion of a third chamber, a sort of native House of Lords as might operate in that failed nation Fiji. We do use proportional representation in our voting system and it elects the Senate and there are a number of minor parties which makes governing difficult. I notice that your founding fathers never saw the need to include your indigenous population in this way, you saw war and extermination as a much more effective measure even in regard to those who you had treaties with and were peaceful

As to the present system working fine, it works about as fine as yours, but we do seem to have the ability to pass important legislation from time to time. The present debacle is the result of using a constitutional mechanism to resolve deadlocks

Yeah we are barbarian still, despite the suits and cognac. We can pass stuff when its important, sometimes. I blame it on the cognac though, not the constitution. On second thought it's probably the politicians who drink the cognac.

What do you guys drink?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

What do you guys drink?

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Well, myself, I don't mind Scots Whisky, but the general populace enjoys Beer, Wine, Vodka, almost anything. Can't really say what the pollys drink, probably too much chardonny

In a further development Bill Shorten , leader of the Labor Party and the opposition, was questioned by Tony Jones on the Q&A programme about his citizenship status after he claimed he had renounced British citizenship in 2006. It seems we are going to have to question all these 10 pound poms and their children who have made it into parliament

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...21-gy15xu.html

We just went through a "birther" phase here Clete when Barrack Obama was elected president and his place of birth questioned mostly by Donald Trumpwhomade a huge stink about it. I bet that's where your genius politicians got the idea from to challenge their opponents.

It's a form of "papers please" used for ILLEGAL immigrants. Seem to work better in your country than it did in mine.

BUMMER!

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Originally Posted by talaniman

We just went through a "birther" phase here Clete when Barrack Obama was elected president and his place of birth questioned mostly by Donald Trumpwhomade a huge stink about it. I bet that's where your genius politicians got the idea from to challenge their opponents.

It's a form of "papers please" used for ILLEGAL immigrants. Seem to work better in your country than it did in mine.

BUMMER!

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No, Tal, our politicians are neither geniuii nor borrowers of this particular idea, it started with some greens politicians, people not noted for their intelligence, realising that they did not comply with the Constitutional requirement of one allegiance. Since that time various other politicians have examined their linage, and its implications, and this has taken on the trappings of comic opera.

I myself am both entitled to first class british citizenship by reason of parentage, my father having left the sceptured isle more than a century ago, and second class british citizenship having being born a british subject in the Commonwealth (empire). My Australian citizenship offers far more, really, especially since it entitles me to reside far from the maddened crown

Like I said... BUMMER!

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Like I said... BUMMER!

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Yes, well there are more bummers than that, Malcolm is swinging on Donald's coat tales criticising Kim and agreeing to add some token troops to Afghanistan while preparing to ask us what we think about gay marriage in a non binding plebesite. He's hoping the electorate will endorse what he is afraid to put to a vote. Since he had the Shlt kicked out of him in the republic plebesite he is reluctant to do anything the public don't approve of. Personally I'm agin it, and so I expect are at least 60% of the electorate.

This is unbelievable
Derryn Hinch faces Section 44 uncertainty over US social security card - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Yet another caught out

They should all be detained pending deportation in a detention camp with the rest of the illegals!

Not quite the understanding of dual citizenship, Tal, there is no criminal offense of sitting in the Parliament without qualification, perhaps there should be, but then, many more might be disqualified on other grounds. Hinch, for example, was incarcerated for Contempt of court, should he be disqualified as a felon

Well here's a new turn, and we are told not to preempt the High Court decision. The X man, Nick Xenophon has announced that after the High Court decision, he will resign from the Senate to seek a seat in the South Australian parliament, South Australian being where all the action is these days. It certainly has produced a crop of ineligible Senators

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-0...r-flip/9022354

I don't know what this tells us, he is ineligible to sit in the Senate, or he is having his cake and eating it too, as the rules will mean his party retains the Senate seat and he retains his influence in federal affairs while being a real nuiance in local affairs. I do know he should be sited for contempt for wasting the courts time

The day of reckoning is coming, Friday is the day when we find out who is out, like we have three down already, and the Parliament could turn into more of a farce that it already is, today the government went on a witch hunt to find the illegal dealings of the Leader of the Opposition before he joined the Parliament, a glowing ember with much smoke. Inditement would mean he's out too

You seem to have a process in place for dealing with these unexpected political events despite the drama and hand wringing.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

You seem to have a process in place for dealing with these unexpected political events despite the drama and hand wringing.

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Yes we have long abandoned the kangaroo court of the Senate Select Committee for the Supreme Court and the legal process of Royal Commission. I think you might have similar processes but ours are less politicised usually. Our Mr Shorten was a union leader and as we have found with past leaders walking that road to power, there are often dealings with union funds that won't stand scrutiny. In the days of Julia Gillard as Prime Minister, the equivalent of your President, she was continually dogged by inquiry into her dealings as a union lawyer, Shorten's dealings have long been open to scrutiny, but have thus far been exposed as shady deals without evidence of outright criminal activity. This leads the Prime Minister to often shout across the dispatch box "would you trust this man" followed by a listing of shady deals

I hope your voters are smarter than ours and can ignore the distraction of personal attacks and get to issues. Drama is fine theater though for the uninformed looney fringe that have plenty of agenda but no facts.

Okay we have a lot more loonies, but that's only because we are much bigger.

The loonies and the crooks are everywhere Tal but our Union movement seems to attract them like honey. These darlings of the left then move on to grace our parliament

Yes they are, but consider, the right wing loonies have always accused the left wing loonies of corrupting the process... and VICE VERSA. Consider also, they both ignore their own lunacy. Its been that way for a long time here, and seems to be a common theme there as well.

Catastrophy

A catastrophic day for the conservative edge

Citizenship Seven: High Court rules Deputy PM Barnaby Joyce ineligible to serve in Parliament - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Five of the seven miscreetes are out on their nellies, and the consequences could be huge

The Deputy Prime Minister has got the boot, Senators fall to the right and to the left, vital legislation will be shelved. The Senate isn't as serious an issue as losing the DPM, his loss puts Liberal rule at risk, whereas the Senators will be replaced by candidates from the same party, but decisions will have to be held in abeyance until they take their seats and will there be a penalty such as repaying parliamentary salaries

Tony Windsor will be back to antagonise Barnaby Joyce in the bi-election. This is a bad climate to hold a bi-election

We now have another head pop up Liberal Senator Stephen Parry who is checking if he is a UK citizen. His circumstance is the same as mine, his father migrated from the UK, so he doesn't need to ask, he is a UK citizen, so he shouldn't even been on the election ticket and this means a recount, in fact it means a recount for all the Senators found out. They can't resolve it by resigning and have their places taken by someone from the same party, the votes have to be recounted and in Parry's case this would mean the election of two different Senators from Tasmania, but you can't unseat a siting Senator duly elected, so back to the High Court to have it resolved as to who takes the vacant seat. But I have to ask, some of these dills have been in the parliament for years, and so have sat in multiple parliaments. What does this mean for the validity of legislation passed?

This is further complicated as some unelected candidates took public service jobs after the election and you cannot be elected if you hold an office for profit