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In a ludicrous attempt to divert attention away from Trump (and cronies) connections with Russia, Trump accused President Obama of wiretapping his campaign phones. The entire world sees right through this and is further evidence of Trump's mental derangement - or at least his incredibly poor judgment.
With North Korea sabre-rattling, the country badly needs a leader who is both sane and capable. Trump is neither.
Is it time to de-presidentize Trump? I think yes.
You wish but the reality is that the first 100 days aren't over. You think BO wasn't capable of dirty tricks but every president has the apparatus at his disposal. The north Koreans are capable of making noise and little more, they want you shaking and quaking in your boots but you should remember that old movie, "the mouse that roared", the plot is remarkedly similar, expect an NK delegation to land in NY next
A wise man once said be careful what you wish for. If we dump Trump, we have PENCE, and for sure you get a very conservative agenda, both socially, and fiscally.
Hello A:
I, excon, demand an immediate cessation of all consequential actions by this “president” until we can figure out what the hell is going on..
excon
Are you making the claim that it never existed and that any proof is false ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2eu-B5ZNPs
Hello dad:
Levin mentions the FBI, NOT Obama.. That their investigation lead to Trump Tower shouldn't be surprising at all.. To think the FBI would spy on Obama's enemies is ludicrous.
excon
There are some serious allegations being tossed around by both sides involving domestic espionage and treason . I find none of this amusing . I don't see how Trump can survive this if the allegations against him are true . And I do not see any chance of him being an effective President as long as these issues remain unresolved . Hmmm sounds like a Democrat game plan.
I guess the question is which sounds crazier and /or more plausible ....That the Obama Administration sought to have surveillance on a political opponent and his campaign during a highly charged Presidential campaign; and used the narrative to weaken the incoming administration ;or that Trump is some Manchurian candidate ?
I remind you that if what Trump says is true ,it won't be the first instance of the Obots using the power of the executive dept to attack political opponents . Just because they got away with the repression of the T Party's groups through the power of the IRS does not mean it did not happen. Actually ,if the Democrat narrative is true it won't be the first time an American politician attempted to get the Russians to interfere in an American election.
https://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/te...-robinson.html
From my perspective ,it appears that since Trump made his silly weekend tweets ,you are not hearing the Democrat narrative quite as much . Instead they have gotten defensive . Where's your proof ?Who said anything about an investigation or FISA warrants ?
They've drawn blood . They got Sessions to recuse himself and Michael Flynn to resign on the flimsiest of premise . It is time for both sides to get down to governing and stop this silly pissing match .
Now there is an idea. I doesn't surprise me that BO would resort to dirty tricks after all he was a hood from the 'hood. Dump is a business man operating in a number of countries it doesn't surprise me he would have contacts. Did anyone complain about the Bush family connections with the Saudi?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
He's from Hawaii.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
To the WH via Chicago where he was connectedQuote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
At the U. of Chicago with other professors.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Don't be niaive
Nah he was a community organizer . He was very street savvy . Like Henry II he would never "order " a "tap" .
This is how the game is played . Our government can't spy on fellow Americans without the proper court orders . The Brits have similar restrictions . So our spooks at NSA have an agreement with their spooks (GHCQ)that they will spy on Americans and that American spooks will listen in on Brits . GHCQ was listening in on Trump and his cohorts since the summer . This was not an official request from the Justice Dept.It was more likely an unofficial request from either DNI or the CIA . Last spring the FBI concluded there was nothing of a criminal nature happening at the Trump campaign . The Obots immediately asked for a NSA warrant and were denied . They asked for one again in late October /early November before the election. I do not know if they were approved . The NY Slimes confirmed that information was being collected overseas by our allies .
The thing is ;whatever the Brits handed over to the American Intel agencies ;IT CANNOT BE USED UNLESS THERE IS CLEAR EVIDENCE OF WRONG DOING . In this case there is a deliberate circumvention of the procedures . This is the information that was leaked to our press and was used by the Dems in hearings of Flynn ,Sessions and others .
To add to the mystery .... just hours before herr Donald was sworn in ;the head of GHCQ ,Robert Hannigan ,abruptly resigned . He claimed in a press release that he wanted to spend more time with his family. Hannigan’s exit is almost certainly more than it seems. Trump has developed a pretty good relationship with Brit PM Theresa May. Did the Trump White House discover what had occurred and communicated with May ? Or did May learn of the maneuvering independently and respond ?
The game is afoot .
And you know this how?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Using your and 'clete's (faulty) logic:
I was born in the US South, so I must be a racist; I grew up in the rural North, so I must be a hayseed or hick; I now live near a large city, so I must have at least eight kids by different fathers and turn to drug dealing and prostitution to supplement the welfare payments I must get. Of course, none of those conclusions are true, nor are the ones you two make about Obama.
From his MO . What did he do to stop the IRS targeting Tea Party groups ? What did he do to stop Evita from flagrantly defying Federal Law by communicating government business on an unsecured private server ? What did he do when Eric Holder blatantly perjured himself in Congressional testimony ? His whole Presidency he kept a distance between what his administration did ,and accepting responsibility for it . If there is one word that defines his tenure it is 'disassociation' with the events he was most responsible for happening .
What are you talking about ? By his own admission he is comfortable being a community organizer . Save the charges of stereotyping to others who sometimes frequent these boards .Quote:
- Using your and 'clete's (faulty) logic:
I was born in the US South, so I must be a racist; I grew up in the rural North, so I must be a hayseed or hick; I now live near a large city, so I must have at least eight kids by different fathers and turn to drug dealing and prostitution to supplement the welfare payments I must get. Of course, none of those conclusions are true, nor are the ones you two make about Obama.
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...ity-organizing
It was your "street savvy" remark that knocked me over. And 'clete's "hood" remark. Both seem to be unfairly pejorative.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Look up the early years for BO he had a hood doing fundraising for him
What's your definition of "hood"?Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
oh I get it . I used a dog whistle . He's also been described as tech savvy ;science savvy and sports savvy . Were those pejoratives too ? I happen to admire the people I know who are street savvy . Being street savvy helped him connect to a segment of his coalition.Being a Harvard grad helped him connect to another . Being bi-racial another ,having a mid-west mother another ... and so on "I contain multitudes," (Walt Whitman)
I apologize to you, Tom.
you're the best .
When did you become an obamaophobe?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Recognizing factual attributes is not a phobia. It's observant.
And yet when I have been observant I am not to be believedQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
You mean Obamaphile ? I didn't ,and that whole line of argument is useless. I disagreed with the emperor's policies and think they were dangerous for the country . The fact is that for 2 elections he beat the snot out of his Republican opponent . That is because enough of the people bought into his personality cult . He is politically savvy .Quote:
- When did you become an obamaophobe?
Your observations come off to me as based in racism, and without facts. Sorry, I'm not perfect, nor very sensitive, but if you aren't a racist, then you are very insensitive, or Australian is a different language than I'm use to.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Take your pick.
Undoubtedly Australian is a different language than you are used to, in spelling, in usage. Our language has been enriched by aboriginal words and culture, some are very useful, Gulah comes to mind. Your language diverged from english some 200 years ago and usage has been deliberately altered. BO is what we call a coconut, you may think that racist but an aboriginal would use such a term often. As to insensitivity we do not wear our heart on our sleeve, this is a harsh land, breeding a harsh people who have no time for hyprocracy and the overly sensitive. Many of my observations are based on life experience and I observe people don't change, at least not quicklyQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
You may be right Clete, people don't change that much but not everyone fits into the neat categories you ascribe based on their race, or religion, nor should they be denigrated for it which you often do, in my opinion, as hate in any language is still hate and that you have proven over, and over. I hate ISIS also, but I don't take their actions out on billions of Muslims who hate them too. You see how many RUN from their cruel oppression, and how many have died because of them?
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Nuttin, because it DIDN'T happen.. It was made up. Just like Fast and Furious was made up. What about Pizzagate, and Hillary's pedophile gang? How about Jade Helm?? That's when right wingers in Texas believed Obama was gonna ATTACK Texas. Should I go on??
excon
Ex ,don't let the facts get in the way ...............
The facts are that as early as August of 2010 the IRS was issuing BOLO(be on the look out) guidelines for agents specifically targetting Tea Party organizations . By 2011, acting Director of Exempt Organizations, Lois Lerner, is advised of the practice. The use of BOLO lists continues until June 12, 2013.
March 22 ,2012 IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman testifies in front of the House Ways and Means Subcommittee on Oversight that there was "absolutely no targeting" by the IRS of conservative and Tea Party organizations. Two months later, Shulman, together with former Acting Commissioner Steven T. Miller, is briefed by Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA) about the matter.
On May 14, 2013, Attorney General Eric Holder announces that the FBI is pursuing an investigation into the matter.The following day, the IRS issues a statement on the scandal, and acting IRS Commissioner Steven Miller announces his resignation.
May 22,2013 Lerner is summoned to testify in front of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. She makes an appearance, but she ultimately refuses to testify.The committee announces that: "The committee has been contacted by Ms. Lerner’s lawyer, William W. Taylor III, who stated that his client intended to invoke her Fifth Amendment right and refuse to answer questions." The following day, she is placed on administrative leave.
FBI documents confirmed the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA) 2013 report said, "Senior IRS officials knew that agents were targeting conservative groups for special scrutiny as early as 2011."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.2b6c05c3c9ac
Lerner did not reveal the targeting until May 2013, in response to a question at an American Bar Association conference. The new documents reveal that then-acting IRS Commissioner Steven Miller actually wrote Lerner's response: "They used names like Tea Party or Patriots and they selected cases simply because the applications had those names in the title. That was wrong, that was absolutely incorrect, insensitive, and inappropriate."
https://electionlawblog.org/?p=50160
June 24.2013
The IRS issues a report into the scandal, admitting fault and saying that "inappropriate criteria" were used for review of organizations applying for tax-exempt status.They of course say that they did nothing wrong .
January 14,2014 The FBI announces that no charges were going to be filed .
Feb 26 2015 Treasury Deputy Inspector General Timothy Camus confirms that TIGTA is investigating whether the disappearance of emails belonging to Lerner could be linked to criminal activity. While the IRS turned over 67,000 Lerner emails, says IRS Commissioner Koskinen, emails before April 2011 went missing: those were important because they span the time period from the creation of the BOLO lists to the time period that Lerner was advised of the practice
October 23, 2015: The DOJ advises Congress that it is closing its investigation and confirms it will not recommend criminal charges against Lois Lerner or any IRS official. The investigation finds "substantial evidence of mismanagement, poor judgment and institutional inertia leading to the belief by many tax-exempt applicants that the IRS targeted them based on their political viewpoints" inside IRS. "Poor management," said Assistant Attorney General Peter Kadzik, "is not a crime." (what a load of cr@p )
What this timeline proves is that the IRS targetting of Tea Party groups did indeed occurred . It also proves that there was no way the emperor's justice dept was ever going to do anything to punish criminal activity in his administration . Finally it shows the length his administration would go to take out his political rivals . Do I believe that would include using his intelligence agencies to illegally surveillance a Presidential candidate's campaign ? You betcha !
Hello again, tom:
Look.. I'm easy. Show me the BOLO..
excon
I'm even easier . If the principle involved admits that they did it as Lois Lerner did;and the IRS's own IG said so ,then I believe them .
I know where you are going with the BOLO . Yes there were other group categories that were also on the BOLO and they were addressed by inspectors under the “touch and go historical” criteria. But the BOLO guidelines directed agents to forward tea party cases for further review .
The BOLO's involved evolved over time with the “emerging issues” category using exclusively conservative terms in 2010 ;but switching to a more generic criteria in July 2011, after Lois Lerner ordered changes after the sh*t hit the fan.
The other thing I did not mention in the time line was the inappropriate questions that inspectors were asking the TEA Party applicants .Daniel Werfel, the emperor's appointee to lead the agency after Miller’s resignation, said in a conference call with reporters that the screening methods were inappropriate.
I call it criminal .
Off topic but pertinent fact, the conservative groups you speak of Tom were investigated but approved eventually. What, conservatives are entitled to a tax exemption without investigation, or documentation?
Back to the topic, Herr Donald's national security adviser was a foreign agent DURING the campaign, did Trump know that?
Flynn was a foreign agent during the campaign | MSNBC
Or did he know the guy he sold his house to was a vice president in a Cyprus bank fined for money laundering,
EXCLUSIVE: Russian to Level Trump’s $95 M Palm Beach House!
Or that his Sec.of Commerce was a principle shareholder of that bank!
Here's Another Trump Cabinet Pick With Close Financial Ties to Russians | Mother Jones
AND
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/cyprus-tak...214442428.html
You guys are in complete meltdown over this stuff . Unbelievable !
This is ALL you know at this point in time .... Here is James Clapper on the lib 'Meet the Press Sunday Show with Chuck Todd last weekend :
Quote:
JAMES CLAPPER: We did not include any evidence in our report, and I say, "our," that's N.S.A., F.B.I. and C.I.A., with my office, the Director of National Intelligence, that had anything, that had any reflection of collusion between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians. There was no evidence of that…
CHUCK TODD: I understand that. But does it exist?
JAMES CLAPPER: Not to my knowledge.
CHUCK TODD: If [evidence of collusion] existed, it would have been in this report?
JAMES CLAPPER: This could have unfolded or become available in the time since I left the government.
This is the head of DNI telling us that as of January 20th,when he left office ,the intelligence agencies had NO EVIDENCE of collusion between Donald Trump's campaign and the government of Vladimir Putin's Russia.
That's after listening in directly on Trump and his campaign's contacts and following all the allegations that started in the Spring of last year right up until Trumps inauguration .
Try to keep up Tom,
JD Gordon, Trump adviser, changes story about GOP Ukraine shift - Business Insider
Stay tuned for more BREAKING NEWS of the Prez Trump drama!Quote:
Diana Denman, the GOP delegate who proposed amending the Ukraine platform to include the "lethal weapons" language, contradicted Gordon's version of events in an interview with Business Insider in January. She said Gordon and another Trump campaign representative asked the cochairmen of the subcommittee to table the amendment after she read it aloud.
"Two men sitting over to the side of the room — I had no idea who they were but later found out they were Trump representatives — jumped up and tore over to get behind the three cochairmen," she said.
Gordon then left the room to make a phone call, Denman said. Equal parts confused and angry over her proposal being scuttled, Denman said she confronted Gordon about whom he was calling.
"I'm calling New York," Gordon replied, according to Denman.
"I work for Mr. Trump, and I have to clear it," she recalled him saying, apparently in reference to the amendment.
Gordon said in an email at the time that Denman "sought to significantly elevate the Ukraine-Russia issue beyond the already strong position of RNC and Trump campaign," so the language had to be watered down.
Tal so what ?? It is not unusual that a nominee sets the platform to go with their positions .I don't agree with it ,but Trump made it very clear that his foreign policy was going to be a traditional non-interventionism . He said throughout the campaign that if allies wanted help they should pay up like we are some kind of mercenary force .
Now I don't think Ukraine or the former Eastern Block should ever have to live under the bootstraps of Russia again. But the counter point has merit . Do you want the US in a shooting war defending the neo-Nazi nationalists who have taken over Ukraine ?
Did you read the links? They were about ties to Russia, government, business, and influence on many levels.
Link 1. Flynn was working as a foreign agent for Turkey . Guilty . If you are asking me if the Trump WH is amateur hour I concede the point.
Link 2 .Trump sold a home in Fla to a Russian oligarch . Guilty . He sold it $95 million ;$ 30 million below asking price . That may say something about his real estate skills but says nothing about the idea that Trump won the election because of Russian tampering in the process or the idea that they will influence his foreign policy
Link 3 and 4 . Even the Slimes says Wilbur Ross was no friend of the Russians at Cyprus Bank.
You have nothing . You've had a half year to prove these allegations and all you have is that Trump was unwise in selecting his 1st National Security Advisor and
that his WH has issues in coordinating it's messaging . That is with the full weight of the MSM investigating abilities ,and the combined work of the Democrat machine in Congress ,and the imbedded Obots in the intelligence agencies ,the justice dept ,and even inside the White House .In the same time in 1973 2 cub reporters and a single source had already connected the Watergate break in to President Nixon's reelection campaign, and two Nixon officials had already been indicted, tried, and convicted. The 2 uniting phrases I see on most reports about this;when you read down to the 12th paragraph is "appearance of impropriety" and "there is no evidence of any wrongdoing".
That's what we have so far Tom, since Jan 20th, more to come, watch this space! To add now, what's up with the State Dept.budget?
Need a LINK?
Trump's budget proposal boosts military, trims State Department, EPA | am New York
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