Hello:
In 1939, we turned Jews away from our borders, and they were murdered in the holocaust..
Read about it HERE.
excon
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Hello:
In 1939, we turned Jews away from our borders, and they were murdered in the holocaust..
Read about it HERE.
excon
The emperor banned admittance of Iraqi refugees for a half year in 2011 .The stated reason was to 'review and revamp security screening procedures'.I don't recall cries of Holocaust then .
Of course herr Donald screwed it up by making his EO so poorly written that it included green card and visa holders en-route. Maybe if he spent less time tweeting ........
Con
Who was President in 1939? Like 1933 to 1945.
And therefore, we have learned to be better people, haven't we.Quote:
Originally Posted by catonsville
Hello again, c:Quote:
Originally Posted by catonsville
You appear to be saying that excluding Muslims is cool because Roosevelt excluded the Jews.
That logic escapes me, frankly..
excon
Con
I am sure logically a lot escapes you, frankly. I see it is working very well in France and Germany.
They only have what is it 39 Countries of which these so-called refugees could go too.
Tough titty... this is OUR country.. we reserve the right to decide who we limit access to... and under what terms the ones we do admit will be allowed. As does every other country on earth.
Try to emmigrate to Switzerland... I dare you... then whine about how unfair and tough ours is... (we aren't nearly tough enough.)
Hell Canada too for that matter... Ask Alty why she hasn't been able to get her Canadian Citizenship despite being there legally for decades.
That and why should some illiterate Muslim goat herder without papers and unknown alliances from a place overrun with terrorists and their sympathizers get a fast track, when I went through Hell ( and a LOT of money and years ) getting my wife legal and she was from Europe....and actually spoke English.
I found out after posting this that the order does not exclude visa and green card holders . I oppose that part of the EO .Quote:
- Of course herr Donald screwed it up by making his EO so poorly written that it included green card and visa holders en-route. Maybe if he spent less time tweeting ........
I find the selective outrage amusing . I already cited the example that the emperor ;in a move almost identical to the one taken by Trump this week ,banned refugees from Iraq for a 6 month period . More recently ,the emperor ,in an EO ,stopped the long held "wet foot dry foot "policy of the US regarding Cuban refugees. Since he initiated that policy ,Cuban refugees have been forced to go to Mexico . But Mexico has no such policy ,and has already deported 91 of them back to Cuba and the fate that awaits them when they return .
Trump's policy is wrong because he suddenly banned travel into the country by people who have already been vetted and have visas and green cards .If he wants to further vet them ,fine . But they should be allowed admittance while the vetting is ongoing . He should also make an exception to those who helped the US in our war efforts against jihadistan.
http://www.dailywire.com/news/12897/...ve-ben-shapiroQuote:
This is incompetence of the highest order. It allows the courts the ability to strike down broad swaths of the executive order on the grounds that its interpretation has violated the legal rights of those allowed to be here by law. It undermines Trump’s entire case that the executive order was moderate in intent – far more moderate than his ridiculous early statements about a blanket Muslim ban during the campaign. It allows the media to go to war with him with the moral high ground.
Dumb. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
What escapes you is that there is already a vetting process. You make it sound like any citizen of another country can just get on a plane or boatQuote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
And come to the US and set up residence. Nothing could be further from the truth!
And Obama's ban was on citizens of Iraq, not specifically against Muslims. Nor did it conveniently exclude countries where Obama does business!
In all fairness ,Trump's ban is not against Muslims either .There are many Muslim countries where this ban does not apply at all (Saudi Arabi ,Pakistan ,nations of origin where jihadists did attack us )
You are correct in stating that the US already has a vetting process in place that has been effective in screening refugees.
From the way New Yorkers behaved over the weekend at JFK Airport, you would think that President Donald Trump had rounded up 3 million American Muslims into a collection of brutal concentration camps. This was pretty much how the media portrayed it.
But despite an admittedly rocky start to Trump’s executive order barring immigration from several terrorism havens, the truth is that this order was largely based on legislation already signed by…President Barack Obama.
Much like Obama never gets the reputation of Deporter-in-Chief outside Hispanic activist circles, the media is not mentioning that he signed a law in 2015 restricting immigration from the very same countries included in Trump’s Friday order. Over objections from the ACLU, President Obama signed the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act.
The U.S. Visa Waiver Program allows people from nearly 40 countries around the world to enter the United States without a visa as long as the visit is scheduled for less than 90 days. In the wake of the San Bernardino terrorist attack, President Obama signed legislation that eliminated that special privilege for anyone who had visited Iran, Iraq, Syria, or Sudan for the past five years. Two months later, the Obama administration added three more countries to the list: Libya, Yemen, and Somalia. Add them all up and what do you get? The very same countries on Trump’s immigration ban.
Oh, but he just picked countries where he didn’t have any business ties, don’t you know?
Obama supporters will point out that removing a special visa waiver is different from an immigration ban, and they aren’t wrong. Still, migrating/visiting the U.S. is in itself a special privilege. It is not a constitutional right of every human being to come to the United States, despite what you may hear from the left. And every president, Republican or Democrat, in our history has understood this.
Unfortunately, the media has brainwashed many Americans into believing that Trump is this racist monster whose every move is dangerously insane. No president in history has been treated like this. This goes beyond the usual liberal bias. This is the Last Stand of the Establishment – the corporate/political behemoth that does not want to see power flow back to the American citizen. And they will lie their asses off to keep that from happening.
If a law already exists why did it need a new EO to enforce it, is this grandstanding? Seems he should just issue an EO that all existing immigration laws be enforced
That sums it up rather nicely.Quote:
Trump is this racist monster whose every move is dangerously insane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
Scott.. This process as you call it... is a joke, I've been through this, I know what it takes.. and if you are a European Christian, its not only stacked against you... unless you know someone its almost impossible. I have in-laws that were at the time a Regional Police Commissioner, and several in the Italian equivalent to our DOJ. My Father in law worked in the Attorney Generals office. So this vetting should have been a slam dunk considering she was also already my legal wife at the time in Europe, and the process should have been fairly smooth and quick.. and not take 3 years ( just to get a green card, they would not issue her a VISA pending the green card) and only get done then because I pulled in a number of favors I had from certain elected officials and friends in government. SO sorry... not buying that because none of them are going through what my wife was subjected to, nor being made to wait like her, and certainly not being forced to spend the tens of thousands of dollars I had to spend that they aren't being expected to.
I will not say the details of who it took and what they had to do because of the crap they were fed to make it happen...not in an open forum...or she would STILL be waiting because they really didn't want ANY more Europeans here at the time....and the quota system reflected that.
If someone has a green card then they have already gone through the vetting process . He blew it and he knows it . That is why he clarified his position today .
Nazanin Zinouri, from Tehran, Iran, was escorted off her flight by two officers at a Dubai airport on Saturday after Trump's EO went into effect .She is a PhD graduate from Clemson University who has lived in the United States for nearly seven years. She was visiting her family in Iran. She booked a flight home when she heard there might be immigration restrictions .She was on a return trip when she was taken off her flight . She has a home ,a dog ,and a car still parked at airport .She doesn't know when or if she will return.
Trump's order affected about 375 travelers ;most of them just like Zinouri ,already fully vetted and living here legally .Many of them are top scientists in their fields . If not for a judge's order ,some of them would probably already be on their way back to their country of origin.
Even if we are at war with a nation ,that doesn't mean we should exclude their citizens. I liken this to ....oh lets say that we had barred German Scientists from entering the US during WWII ;and maybe had sent Wernher von Braun back to Germany .
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...cience/514859/
Just want to clear something up. It's not a matter of my not being able to get a Canadian Citizenship, it's that I haven't. Big difference. If I wanted to I could. I've been here long enough to take the citizenship exam, and become Canadian, I just haven't done it. It's not big on my to do list. I'm a landed immigrant, I pay taxes, I can legally work here. The only things I can't do are vote, and go on jury, and have a Canadian passport (which frankly is the only one of the three that would really make it worth it). I live here legally, and even though I'm still a German citizen, I am Canadian for all intents and purposes. I've lived here all but 3 years of my life, and I love this country. One day I'll go in to take the exam. Right now it's not the most pressing thing in my life.Quote:
Hell Canada too for that matter... Ask Alty why she hasn't been able to get her Canadian Citizenship despite being there legally for decades.
First, it wasn't only New York, it went on all over the country. Second, that's not how the media I saw portrayed it. Third, 4 courts issued a stay against the EO! Fourth, you are correct that Trump was following a blue print started by Obama. But why was it necessary if there are existing safeguards in place?Quote:
Originally Posted by catonsville
Finally, if you think that Trump is flowing power back to the American citizen then you are the one who is brainwashed!
So you just proved my point. That the process of emigrating to the US is NOT easy. So why do we need this EO?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Hello again,
Trump said he got the list of country's to ban from Obama.. But, isn't Obama the founder of ISIS???? WHY would Trump take advice from the FOUNDER of ISIS???
excon
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
NO??? Then why did he ask Giuliani to make his Muslim ban legal??
excon
There are many other Muslim dominant nations where the restrictions don't apply .So if herr Donald wanted a ban on all Muslims ,he did not create one.
That's a bunch of whooey Tom, unless he has actionable intelligence, or high probability of an imminent threat like Obama had when he ordered his ban. Further the fact that the fool actually carved out a preference exempting Christians goes to the point of his intent to ban certain Muslims even though there has been no history of an ACTUAL threat being carried out.
Giuliani has come out and said he was tasked with crafting a Muslim ban legal, and the Donald in a rush to have his photo op for his peeps never vetted his EO with his own lawyers or his intelligence community, or security organizations. A rushed sloppy job from an inexperienced impulsive ego driven lying fascist who thinks he can do anything his way and forgo the process and rule of law.
So if you believe this ban against Muslims who have never harmed us here at home and ignores those that have and our own loonies, then enjoy your false security while it lasts. I find it troubling you so easily believe one who lies habitually and exaggerates facts and exploits fear to justify his own gain.
SAD!!
Christians in those countries should get special consideration . Do you deny they are being persecuted more than anyone else in those nations ? They can't even go to refugee camps without being attacked .
I don't care what you think Trump's intent was . The fact is that this is NOT a Muslim ban . If you read the EO it clearly is not a Muslim ban .
For those that think there ARE no laws on the books about illegals...
U.S. Attorneys » Resources » U.S. Attorneys' Manual » Criminal Resource Manual » CRM 1500-1999 » Criminal Resource Manual 1901-1999
1907. Title 8, U.S.C. 1324(a) Offense
Title
8, U.S.C. § 1324(a) defines several distinct offenses related to
Aliens. Subsection 1324(a)(1)(I)-(v) prohibits alien smuggling, domestic
Transportation of unauthorized aliens, concealing or harboring
Unauthorized aliens, encouraging or inducing unauthorized aliens to
Enter the United States, and engaging in a conspiracy or aiding and
Abetting any of the preceding acts. Subsection 1324(a)(2) prohibits
Bringing or attempting to bring unauthorized aliens to the United States
In any manner whatsoever, even at a designated port of entry.
Subsection 1324(a)(3).
Alien Smuggling -- Subsection 1324(a)(1)(A)(I) makes it an offense
For any person who -- knowing that a person is an alien, to bring to or
Attempts to bring to the United States in any manner whatsoever such
Person at a place other than a designated port of entry or place other
Than as designated by the Commissioner, regardless of whether such alien
Has received prior official authorization to come to, enter, or reside
In the United States and regardless of any future official action which
May be taken with respect to such alien.
Domestic Transporting -- Subsection 1324(a)(1)(A)(ii) makes it an
Offense for any person who -- knowing or in reckless disregard of the
Fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States
In violation of law, transports, or moves or attempts to transport or
Move such alien within the United States by means of transportation or
Otherwise, in furtherance of such violation of law.
Harboring -- Subsection 1324(a)(1)(A)(iii) makes it an offense for
Any person who -- knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an
Alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation
Of law, conceals harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to
Conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place,
Including any building or any means of transportation.
Encouraging/Inducing -- Subsection 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv) makes it an
Offense for any person who -- encourages or induces an alien to come to,
Enter, or reside in the United States, knowing or in reckless disregard
Of the fact that such coming to, entry, or residence is or will be in
violation of law.
Conspiracy/Aiding or Abetting -- Subsection 1324(a)(1)(A)(v)
Expressly makes it an offense to engage in a conspiracy to commit or aid
Or abet the commission of the foregoing offenses.
Bringing Aliens to the United States -- Subsection 1324(a)(2) makes
It an offense for any person who -- knowing or in reckless disregard of
The fact that an alien has not received prior authorization to come to,
Enter, or reside in the United States, to bring to or attempts to bring
To the United States in any manner whatsoever, such alien, regardless of
Any official action which may later be taken with respect to such
Alien.
The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act
(IIRIRA), enacted on September 30, 1996, added a new 8 U.S.C. §
1324(a)(3)(A) which makes it an offense for any person, during any
12-month period, to knowingly hire at least 10 individuals with actual
Knowledge that these individuals are unauthorized aliens. See this Manual at 1908 (unlawful employment of aliens).
Unit of Prosecution -- With regard to offenses defined in subsections
1324(a)(1)(A)(I)-(v), (alien smuggling, domestic transporting,
Harboring, encouraging/inducing, or conspiracy/aiding or abetting) each
Alien with respect to whom a violation occurs constitutes a unit of
Prosecution. Prior to enactment of the IIRIRA, the unit of prosecution
For violations of 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(2) was each transaction, regardless
Of the number of aliens involved. However, the unit of prosecution is
Now based on each alien in respect to whom a violation occurs.
Knowledge -- Prosecutions for alien smuggling, 8 U.S.C. §
1324(a)(1)(A)(I) require proof that defendant knew that the person
Brought to the United States was an alien. With regard to the other
violations in 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a), proof of knowledge or reckless
Disregard of alienage is sufficient.
Penalties -- The basic statutory maximum penalty for violating 8
U.S.C. § 1324(a)(1)(I) and (v)(I) (alien smuggling and conspiracy) is a
Fine under title 18, imprisonment for not more than 10 years, or both.
With regard to violations of 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(1)(ii)-(iv) and (v)(ii),
Domestic transportation, harboring, encouraging/inducing, or
Aiding/abetting, the basic statutory maximum term of imprisonment is 5
Years, unless the offense was committed for commercial advantage or
Private financial gain, in which case the maximum term of imprisonment
Is 10 years. In addition, significant enhanced penalties are provided
For in violations of 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(1) involving serious bodily
Injury or placing life in jeopardy. Moreover, if the violation results
In the death of any person, the defendant may be punished by death or by
Imprisonment for any term of years. The basic penalty for a violation
Of subsection 1324(a)(2) is a fine under title 18, imprisonment for not
More than one year, or both, 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(2)(A). Enhanced
Penalties are provided for violations involving bringing in criminal
Aliens, 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(2)(B)(I), offenses done for commercial
Advantage or private financial gain, 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(2)(B)(ii), and
violations where the alien is not presented to an immigration officer
Immediately upon arrival, 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(2)(B)(iii). A mandatory
Minimum three year term of imprisonment applies to first or second
violations of § 1324(a)(2)(B)(I) or (B)(ii). Further enhanced punishment
Is provided for third or subsequent offenses.
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