There can be no doubt that a solution to the problems of migration in Europe is needed.

Some arguments that we have seen previously have resurfaced. The NYT took it upon itsself to criticise the successful Australian solution of not allowing those who come illegally to stay, thus depriving the people smugglers who trade in misery and overcrowded boats a market, but such a solution is too radical for a world that is knee deep in migrants or refugees. This is not to say refugees should not be assisted to resettle, but how do you tell the difference between a refugee and an economic migrant in such a confused situation

What is apparent with these peoples is that they are no respecters of borders or of laws. Their mistrust of authority may be well founded but if you go to a different country the first priority is to respect the laws. They have a single minded approach to their destination and are hard to persuade that there might be other solutions.

The thought that keeps exercising my mind is why should Europe be responsible for these people, why shouldn't the cashed up arab countries with whom these people share ethnicity and religion step up and provide for them

Why is it so radical to merely deport anyone who enters a nation illegally. We do not hear a lot of issues of Russia and China having a lot of illegal immigration.

While not a perfect world, China for example, to ride a train or plane, you must show proper legal ID. (Yes everyone of their billion people have a national ID card). IF you want to open a bank account, you must have that ID card. If you want to rent an apartment, you must show that ID card.

So even if someone was here illegally they could almost do nothing.

Its well know here that the New York Times is run and staffed by idiots. Beholden to the DNC who wants illegals voting for them and their Marxist causes illegally...because they can't get enough dead people doing it, and its hard for the living to vote more than 8 or nine times an election.

Illegals should NOT have "Rights" and should be sent back to where they came from...if they are wanted there or not.

I agree that anyone who breaks a law in a country and is not a citizens should be deported but we have the extraordinary rule, no doubt thought up by the UN, that a person should not be returned to danger, therefore a persosn fleeing a war situation cannot be returned to their country of origin. What I don't get and maybe it is because I'm not a muslim is that a person can just make a decision to go to another counrty and they have to be accepted, even without documantation. These Syrians who are arriving in Europe are transitting countries like Turkey where they are not under threat and even have refugee camps but they have the dillusion that things will be better in some far off place. They seem to be under the impression that hundreds of thousands of people can just be accommodated when they arrive. There is an expectation of open doors hospitality which is beyond reasonable. There is no war in afghanistan now and yet Afghans are migrating to Europe

The lefties argue that it's Europe's problem because these are all former colonies.They also make the case that NATOs humanitarian R2P attacks in Libya created the refugee problem in North Africa . However ,this migration problem predates the over throw of Q Daffy.

We have our migration problems to deal with . Seems your laws are more rational .


https://www.google.com/#q=sneakin+into+the+usa

I vote to stop the war. Let Iran have the bomb. An airburst about 80 meters above Tehran would be about right. Then IS can treat radiation sickness rather than apostasy.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The lefties argue that it's Europe's problem because these are all former colonies.They also make the case that NATOs humanitarian R2P attacks in Libya created the refugee problem in North Africa . However ,this migration problem predates the over throw of Q Daffy.

We have our migration problems to deal with . Seems your laws are more rational .


https://www.google.com/#q=sneakin+into+the+usa

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Yes our laws are more rational, helped along by our indigenous who wish they had not been so welcoming in the eighteenth century Europe will rue the day they welcomed a muslim population into their midst, what the Ottomans could not do, their great grand children will do.
Cats you are suggesting that airburst in the wrong place, the name of Daesh HQ is Racca and Daesh would treat radiation sickness the way they treat everything else, off with their heads but to stop the flow of refugees you need one over Damascus as well

What I would like to know is how bad is the situation really when the father of the drowned child could take his son back to Korbane for burial. Hundreds of miles back to where he came from and in a few days. There is something very seriel about this crisis

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Cats you are suggesting that airburst in the wrong place, the name of Daesh HQ is Racca and Daesh would treat radiation sickness the way they treat everything else, off with their heads but to stop the flow of refugees you need one over Damascus as well

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Their military will dry up and blow away without funding. Riyadh and Damascus will shut right down if Tehran stops being the number one target.

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Originally Posted by Ferrari45

Just heard in the news that a Egyptian Billionaire wants to buy a ISLAND to help this refuges in Europe. He is looking into Greece or Italy. He also picked a name for it,
"HOPE".. May be people like Bill Gates can lend him hands to build that ! May be that would be the next Heaven for Immigrant after America..

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Then its solved... we round them all up and send them to Egypt.

Because I can tell you...except for the Communists in Italy looking to expand their voting base....nobody else in Italy wants them. And Greece can't pay their own bills.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

And Greece can't pay their own bills.

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The guy can probably get all of Greece for cheap.

I can't get the imagine of that little dead child on the beach. And then he is in the man's arms.

Cameron has said he will let thousands into the UK, but where will they put them.

My son in Germany told me today that there is a lot of Syrian Immigrants already living there and they are in a small town on the Dutch border.

In Italy a lot of them are committing crimes... theft, robbery, assaults, murder, rapes. Just like they probably did at home.

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Originally Posted by Ferrari45

Just heard in the news that a Egyptian Billionaire wants to buy a ISLAND to help this refuges in Europe. He is looking into Greece or Italy. He also picked a name for it,
"HOPE".. May be people like Bill Gates can lend him hands to build that ! May be that would be the next Heaven for Immigrant after America..

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Why does his island have to be in Europe surely there are plenty of Islands going cheap in Asia, Africa or the vast oceans of the world, but it solves nothing because it takes vast resources to construct buildings and inferstructure otherwise you are just transferring the problem, there was an idea floated the other day to fill the empty quarter in Arabia, sounds like a great idea

The 1985 Schengen Agreement, which eliminates border controls among member states will likely be reformed to make room for countries to tighten their border controls . It's another nail in the coffin of the EU which gave up notions of sovereignty .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The 1985 Schengen Agreement, which eliminates border controls among member states will likely be reformed to make room for countries to tighten their border controls . It's another nail in the coffin of the EU which gave up notions of sovereignty .

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If you had been in Europe you would know there are no borders, no guardposts, no barriers. It is only on those countries that border a non EU state that any check is made and usually with a stamp of a six months visa. In Basle I crossed the border three times in one night and no one checked anything. It would be like Virginia trying to stop traffic to Washington, utter chaos. At least the UK showed some sense and didn't pass soveriegnty to Brussles. I may have a misunderstanding of the German economy but how can Germany just absorb hundreds of thousands of Syrians at a time when it was baulking at helping out Greece. Where does the instant housing come from? The services? Germany is not a multicultural place. A few years ago they were sending Turks home and complaining about the east germans

It took a long time but the penny has finally dropped in this ME refugee crisis. We should be selective, we should give priority to christians. These are the unwanted people in this crisis, the targets of Daesh and the targets of the various muslim groups. If they are brought here there are supportive groups within the community and they will not be looking back to involve themselves in wars in their former homeland

Operation rescue: the Christians of the Middle East face extinction

The ethnic cleansing of christians in the ME has been ignored as the world has tried to tackle larger issues and the thousands of refugees in Europe again draw attention away from what is actually happening to minority populations. In the face of a refugee crisis the question also needs to be asked as to how our program appears to be failing, we have quotas that are not being met, has the queue shortened? No, it has gotten longer but the nature of the crisis itsself means that varification of the status of refugees has become harder and the actual intake is much smaller.

It is no wonnder that refugees in Europe are unwilling to wait for the registration process as they are expected to, the bureaucracy has failed, What might sound reasonable with smaller numbers becomes impossible

Attachment 47785

Thanks for your myoptic vision Tom. I know this issue doesn't affect the US they are just one of the push factors, don't fall off that pedistal

we are probably going to take in somewhere's around 75,000 refugees from Syria alone . So get off your high horse. We already are inundated with refugees from Somalia...some of whom have travelled overseas to join Jihadistan once they became American citizens .... and many more are significantly changing the culture of towns like Dearborn Michigan as they insist that we assimilate to their culture instead of the reverse.

Tom bless you, you do care after all, but then you have a long history of filling your country with unwanted people and of course, rejecting many. Look I do hope you fill your country with muslims then you will understand the problem, so how about you organise an flotilla of small boats to ferry them across the atlantic once Germany decides it has made a mistake

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you have a long history of filling your country with unwanted people

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the trick is to fill the country with freedom loving industrious people who share the values of America. We took in over a million Vietnamese and have had no issues.

I don't think you will get the same bargain with Syrians, but try anyway

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Originally Posted by paraclete

I don't think you will get the same bargain with Syrians, but try anyway

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I would restrict it to Christians, Yazidis ,and Kurds being persecuted . But that's just me .

How would you know who is who?

Tal you simply give the Muslim greating, a muslim is bound to reply as to a Christian well I don't think a muslim can testify to the saving grace of Jesus Christ, as for kurds they are not arabs so a little racial profiling may do the trick unless it is of course that americans are unskilled in racial profiling, such as asking to speak to muhhamed. It's easy anyone named muhammed or ali to the back of the queue

It seems that persecuted minorities are in demand, read Christians, with Australia saying priority will be give to these groups, which puts the sunni and shiites to the end of the queue and it you are similar mind then the muslims will be left to fight with each other, which I think is the current strategy. I think we have all gotten to the point where there must be true affinity with migrant groups for it to work, otherwise we are just importing the old arguments, personally I couldn't care less whether Ali is the annointed first imam or last iman or cousin of mudhatmad or not

You would make a great ambassador tying yourself in knots to discriminate using your own tired notions as a starting point to unravel this logistics nightmare. An interesting twist you present on the old "If you're white you're right; if you're brown stick around; but if you're black get back!".

For sure you have to treat the millions running from war better than cattle, and feed and shelter them as a start to a bigger process, be they Christian, Arab, or whatever.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

For sure you have to treat the millions running from war better than cattle, and feed and shelter them as a start to a bigger process, be they Christian, Arab, or whatever.

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Have you seen the footage? They have been behaving like cattle, blocking roads and showing no respect. Who invades someoneelse's country and is allowed to get away with it. These people have come from safe havens, as you can find with the parent of the small child who was lost, they are economic migrants. I can understand their motivations. They are already saying this will change Germany, on wonders how long before anti semitism rises in Germany again

Who will the EU reject? Right now there is a wave of euphoria as Germany and France undertake to accept large number of refugees. However the attitude of some in Europe is already evident. Greece is staggering under the weight of migrants in places like Lesbos. Footage of a Hungarian abusing migrants has emerged. When the dust clears and there are actually hundreds of thousands of migrants to be accommodated, fed and employed who will be allowed to stay? The disruption in parts of Europe must already be staggering. The lesson of France with its millions of Muslims as an underclass has not been learned. The European President is looking to enforce quotas on EU countries even though the migrants look only to Germany, so what will happen when the migrants are forced to go to places they didn't intend? How will they identify the Daesh infiltrators?

Economic migrants will be returned just as they are now. Australia says it will accept persecuted minorities from the middle east, so will Britain but that means those who are already in Europe won't be considered for those places, proving once again it doesn't pay to listern to the people smugglers and jump the queue. Not all of these people are Syrian although many will claim they are

Surely we have reach the time when there should be less talk and more action starting with the removal of the Assard regime and then an all out assault on Daesh

You are 5 years to late Clete. One also wonders why those immigrants are running away from the enemy instead of fighting. Surely even ISIS could not withstand the millions who ran at them instead of away from them.

Should have let Obama blow Assad away when he had his hand on the trigger.

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Should have let Obama blow Assad away when he had his hand on the trigger.

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Who stopped him ? He drew a red line in the sand and then backed off when Vladdy the Conquerer told him to.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

the trick is to fill the country with freedom loving industrious people who share the values of America. We took in over a million Vietnamese and have had no issues.

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I wouldnt say no issues. There was a lot of background noise and rumblings that were going on. Many people didnt like the fact that they received preffered status in getting jobs and those jobs were at the cost of American ones. Also how supplemented they were. Integration wasnt as smooth on the homefront either as many that came over considered the family dog or cat a delicacy. It made for odd times and a lot of missing animals.

You make an interesting point Tal but arabs have proven they are better at running away than fighting, no, these people won't resist to the point of death, those who will are already fighting, but they also know because they have been there that Turkey is involved in this, so why would they fight just to give the country to Turkey. I expect they have had enough of the double game being played here.

The Syrian crisis was five years ago, it has now become the european crisis and the arab spring has become the european winter

Just echoing a thought or two doing the rounds on FacebooK

If you look at the pictures of war in Iraq and Syria you observe very low tech transport and large numbers of women and children, if you observe the pictures of migrants in Europe you observe large numbers of men and high tech transport. What is wrong with these pictures? Well usually in a war we leave the women and children in a safe place and go to war but today the Syrians leave the women and children in a war zone and go to a safe place. I think that Europe should enlist and send every single man back to fight in their own country. This would quickly end the war and the flow of migrants

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Originally Posted by cdad

I wouldnt say no issues. There was a lot of background noise and rumblings that were going on. Many people didnt like the fact that they received preffered status in getting jobs and those jobs were at the cost of American ones. Also how supplemented they were. Integration wasnt as smooth on the homefront either as many that came over considered the family dog or cat a delicacy. It made for odd times and a lot of missing animals.

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ok short term issue. A million refugees were integrated . I am not aware of any long term issue the like we will get with Muslim enclaves inside the country who refuse assimilation for religious reasons .

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Originally Posted by paraclete

You make an interesting point Tal but arabs have proven they are better at running away than fighting

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yarmouk


This was a complete victory for the Arab forces . But there was a moment when they fell into retreat ....here is the account "

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Despite stiff resistance, the warriors of Yazid on the left flank finally fell back to their camps and for a moment Vahan's plan appeared to be succeeding. The centre of the Muslim army was pinned down and its flanks had been pushed back. However, neither flank had broken, though their morale was severely damaged. The retreating Muslim army was met by the ferocious Arab women in the camps. Led by Hind, the Muslim women dismantled their tents and armed with tent poles charged at their husbands and fellow men singing an improvised song from the Battle of Uhud that then had been directed against the Muslims.

O you who run from a constant woman
Who has both beauty and virtue;
And leave her to the infidel,
The hated and evil infidel,To possess, disgrace and ruin.

This boiled the blood of the retreating Muslims so much that they returned to the battlefield.

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Frustration is understandable Tom when the ones you want assimilated don't want to be, but FORCING them will only bring more resistance. Any expectations of Complete Assimilation is unrealistic at best.

@Clete, be nice if the able bodied young men among the migrating throngs could be trained to HELP defend their homeland in exchange for the security, and welfare of their families and loved ones in their safe haven destinations.

My count comes to more than a million man count. More if you include the ones from Joudan and Lebanon and other places in the ME.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

ok short term issue. A million refugees were integrated . I am not aware of any long term issue the like we will get with Muslim enclaves inside the country who refuse assimilation for religious reasons .

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Take a look a France Tom a lot of no go areas there

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Frustration is understandable Tom when the ones you want assimilated don't want to be, but FORCING them will only bring more resistance. Any expectations of Complete Assimilation is unrealistic at best.

@Clete, be nice if the able bodied young men among the migrating throngs could be trained to HELP defend their homeland in exchange for the security, and welfare of their families and loved ones in their safe haven destinations.

My count comes to more than a million man count. More if you include the ones from Joudan and Lebanon and other places in the ME.

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Tal the point is if they would fight the war would have over long ago, like all wars we can echo churchills words "never... have so many owed so much to so few"

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Originally Posted by tomder55

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yarmouk


This was a complete victory for the Arab forces . But there was a moment when they fell into retreat ....here is the account "

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Perhaps they should train the women

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Take a look a France Tom a lot of no go areas there

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The French don't give them the option to assimilate . That is true of most of the continent . But there is a more fundamental problem with Europe. The Europeans have a negative replacement rate and the only place they can turn for population is parts of the world where the people don't want to become European in any meaningful sense .

The angel of the Lord also said to her:“You are now pregnant
and you will give birth to a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,
for the Lord has heard of your misery.

He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone's hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
towardall his brothers.” Gen 16:11-12

The continent will be over-whelmed and conquered .

Nothing like taking a verse out of context