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Well folk, after many long months Iran has agreed to a deal to curb its nuclear bomb program.
Iran nuclear deal: Fine 'new chapter' or 'historic mistake'?
Something tells me that was the easy part and the hollering is going to get LOUD!
Does anyone actually believe Iran will do ANYTHING they promised? I don't.
What you have is an end to external hot air and the beginning of internal hot air. There is a lot of smoke and mirrors here
Not mentioned in the deal is that the Iranians are still holding at least 4 US hostages . Not mentioned is the Iranians being the lead state sponsor of terrorism. Not mentioned is the no accounting for the lion's share of US deaths in Iraq directly caused by Iranian providing road side explosive devises to our enemies in Iraq. Not mentioned is that there is very little inspection power to verify compliance.
You want hollering ? Ok I'm hollering at the Repubic leadership in Congress that surrendered their constitutional authority under Article II, Section 2, Clause 2. That's why the emperor can boast about a veto if the Senate votes the 'treaty 'down.
Hello:
Couple things... This ISN'T about hostages, and it ISN'T about believing the Iranians.
excon
Why would he make a deal while Americans are being held hostage ? Why would he make a deal if there is not a legitimate verification process ? Why would he make a deal when the political leaders of the country chant in the halls of Parliament "DEATH TO AMERICA " !
Attachment 47618
Meanwhile a blast from the past ......the last time we made an agreement with a rogue nation about their nuclear program .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TcbU5jAavw
Well that op-ed cartoon is certainly based on ignorance, right from its first sentence.
Iran certainly got everything they wanted in the deal . Are you saying the emperor didn't ? The emperor's flunkies are all over the news saying this was the best deal they could get and the alternative was war . They say this eases tensions in the region. But the only tensions eased are the ones that the Iranians created with their violence and their threats of violence. The Iranians have backed up their threat of violence and their will to use it . But not using violence against the 12ers and their terrorist regime is the one red line the emperor stands by.
oh yeah i forgot . The emperor gets his "legacy " ;although it is still far from clear why he wants a rapprochement with Iran .I still predict he will try some Nixonian visit to Tehran before the end of the term so he can bow to Grand Ayatollah Ali Hosseini Khamenei in person.
Your hate is felt from here. Hope you give it up soon, it'll eat you up inside. There's more to life.
at least you have some rational actors in your foreign affairs .
Canada to keep sanctions against Iran despite nuclear deal - The Globe and MailQuote:
Foreign Affairs Minister Rob Nicholson issued a statement saying that Canada “will continue to judge Iran by its actions not its words,” and that the government in Ottawa will examine the agreement carefully before making any policy changes.
“We will examine this deal further before taking any specific Canadian action,” Mr. Nicholson said in the statement.
That means Canada is refusing to follow the course set by its major allies............................................ ..............
Mr. Harper’s government has also been sharply critical of Iran, and it suspended diplomatic ties, closing the embassy in Tehran in 2012.
Hello tom:
This is simple... You ask, why he made the deal. I say, it's to avoid war.. Why are all the right wingers AGAINST the deal? I say it's cause they wanna BOMB Iran.
excon
Let the middle east players bomb each other. Can't trust Israel either.
Who can you trust?
They both act like petulant children.
I think ex is right another war led recovery has been averted, that isn't good for profits but let's get down to it, there is a time for everything and this is an idea whose time has come, decades of animosity have led nowhere or more accurately to proxy war until it is so confused the principle players find themselves fighting on the same side. It is time to stop playing the saudi game
Well the Prez laid it out at a press conference, answered every question, and then had his own answers to even more questions the press didn't ask.
President Obama News Conference Iran Nuclear Deal | Video | C-SPAN.org
Meanwhile Netty, with 247 nukes of his own, and Big Brother USA at his side, still cries foul. Europe, Russia, China and the UN all agree. DONE DEAL!
Some people are just noisy when they loose the argument, look he may be right, this maybe another Chamberlain moment, but realistically short of all out war, you couldn't stop them anyway, so this is something better than nothing
Yup ,an Iranian nuke in the most volitile region of the world . Yup the end of any non-proliferation efforts worldwide . Yup ,a nuclear arms race in the Middle East . Yup ,the end of any US influence in one of the most important regions of the world .Yup ,throwing our most reliable ally in the region under the bus and aligning ourselves with a Persian empire that we help create . Yup throwing our soldiers under the bus who were killed ,wounded and maimed by Iranians and their surrogates going back 30 years .Quote:
DONE DEAL!
Yup leaving American hostages behind .
The emperor is a schmuck !Quote:
Nope ,he wants America out of the Middle East and he needs a hegemon to replace us .So he's inventing one. War is not avoided . He will continue to wage war behind the drones and make believe he ended war . He has just made the region less stable . Within a decade or 2 the Iranian nuke will be on ICBM warheads . The safeguards he outlined are a joke . For sanctions to return ,a committee that includes Iranian reps will have to approve them . For the Iranian efforts at stalling and digging in their heals ,they are being rewarded with $150 billion ;which if it were in proportion to the US economy would be an $8 trillion infusion into their economy . They won't be using that money to improve the lives of their citizens . What money doesn't line the pockets of the Mullah's will be used by them to continue to export their Iranian Revolution.Quote:
This is simple... You ask, why he made the deal. I say, it's to avoid war..
Nope, actually it's the opposite.You're getting wrong information somewhere.Quote:
Yup ,an Iranian nuke in the most volitile region of the world .
Wrong again.Quote:
Yup the end of any non-proliferation efforts worldwide .
Why is it one of the most important regions? I don't think so.Quote:
Yup ,a nuclear arms race in the Middle East . Yup ,the end of any US influence in one of the most important regions of the world .
Wrong again. It's an attempt at peace.Quote:
Yup ,throwing our most reliable ally in the region under the bus and aligning ourselves with a Persian empire that we help create .
No you are. See how we can all play that childish game?Quote:
The emperor is a schmuck !
Wonderful!Quote:
Nope ,he wants America out of the Middle East
begone troll !
Just because someone has an opinion that disagrees with yours doesn't mean they are a troll. It says more about you than about me.
Which troll do you get your information from? Tom ?
This isn't the way I read it, the pundits say this delays an Iranian nuke 15 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Far as I know that wasn't discussed but maybe a modification of the treaty to allow peaceful use is needed.Quote:
Yup the end of any non-proliferation efforts worldwide .
This is a fabrication of GWB that you have been pursuing for 15 yearsQuote:
Yup ,a nuclear arms race in the Middle East
.You mean we will see the end of premptive strikes and drone attacks?Quote:
Yup ,the end of any US influence in one of the most important regions of the world .
No one was thrown under a bus because he didn't get what he wantedQuote:
Yup ,throwing our most reliable ally in the region under the bus
Well if you helped to create it you have a responsibility to bring it in from the coldQuote:
and aligning ourselves with a Persian empire that we help create
..
On this we can agree but that's a jewish phrase and he is black so a mixed metaphor there, so I think the term in the 'hood is fool!Quote:
The emperor is a schmuck !
According to Netty, they were months away from a bomb anyway, thanks to more than a decade of inaction, while we were distracted by Bush/Cheney chasing Saddam's mushroom cloud. Now the right and Netty holler about the "bad" plan while they have NO PLAN!
GEEZ, even your hero Vlad agrees with the plan even though he can't sell Iran ICBM missiles.
that's if you believe the Iranians will honor the terms . They will not and there is no history to suggest they will.Quote:
This isn't the way I read it, the pundits say this delays an Iranian nuke 15 years
Do you need Captain Obvious to explain it ? The last country that joined the nuke club did it with impunity . This time we are actually rewarding them for their efforts. How are you going to keep the Saudi's ,the Egyptians ,the Turks, the Emirate States from joining the club now ?Quote:
Far as I know that wasn't discussed but maybe a modification of the treaty to allow peaceful use is needed.....This is a fabrication of GWB that you have been pursuing for 15 years
Yes Israel definitely was . They live under the threat of destruction by this regime ,and now we are allowing them to develop the means to fulfill their boast .Quote:
No one was thrown under a bus because he didn't get what he wanted
Oh yeah ,you and the utopian idiot running our country think they can be peacefully reigned in ,or that they will be a responsible hegemon once they dominate the region. Meanwhile their proxies wage war all over the region and have done so since 1979.Quote:
Well if you helped to create it you have a responsibility to bring it in from the cold
has kept you safe from any terrorist attacks on your soil from the "towel heads"... unlike your previous president.Quote:
the utopian idiot running our country
Saved your 401k, made a few rich guys richer, brought back cuban Cigars, and stopped two wars, while you guys hollered, screamed, and called names, so not bad for a bumbling idiot.Quote:
the utopian idiot running our country
Just keep in mind the letter to the Mullahs by the 47 Republican Senators. This is NOT a treaty . It is an executive agreement that can be terminated as early as January 2017 once a Republican President and Congress ends this folly .
Nah , I bought the dip as one should always do when there is a market decline.Quote:
Saved your 401k
Who cares ? There are better cigars being made now by other Latin American nationsQuote:
brought back cuban Cigars,
should read retreating from 2 wars .Both wars are still being waged ,and being waged by Americans .Quote:
stopped two wars
No but undoubtedly you do. How long do you think it takes to develop a bomb? You did it in a few years and the information has been in the public demain for fifty years.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Quote:
The last country that joined the nuke club did it with impunity . This time we are actually rewarding them for their efforts.
You are not rewarding their efforts, you are removing sanctions that has forced them to develop industries so they don't need your industrial military complex.
Not my job you are the self appointed policeman of the world, so either do the job or withdrawQuote:
How are you going to keep the Saudi's ,the Egyptians ,the Turks, the Emirate States from joining the club now ?
Times change rhetoric changes, Saddam tried it and failed, Hezbollah tried it and failed, Hamas tried it and failed. It is just possible the Iranians have weighed the price and decided as Gaddafi did that there is a lot to be gained by changing courseQuote:
Yes Israel definitely was . They live under the threat of destruction by this regime ,and now we are allowing them to develop the means to fulfill their boast .
Let us get a few things properly aligned. You can't afford a war and you desperately want someone else to take on Daesh on the ground. Your focus must be on what the Russians are doing. Already the Chinese have realised this. If Iran have been fighting a proxy war since 1979 they have done it successfully, somewhat more successfully than the outcome of the wars you have fought. They survived your puppet Saddam and his war against them so you can't talk about proxy wars. Even your ally Pakistan has dealings with them and it they get the bomb that's where the information will come from if it hasn't already. You really should start working out who you can trustQuote:
Oh yeah ,you and the utopian idiot running our country think they can be peacefully reigned in ,or that they will be a responsible hegemon once they dominate the region. Meanwhile their proxies wage war all over the region and have done so since 1979.
It is time for you to move on, the only interest you have in the middle east is Israel, so station your troops on the Syrian border and stop the sabre rattling
You said that in 2008, and 2012, while the Prez just keeps BUMBLING along. Keep hollering though. Maybe you can get Russia, China, Europe and the UN to join you.Quote:
It is an executive agreement that can be terminated as early as January 2017 once a Republican President and Congress ends this folly .
Hello again, tom:
What's preventing you from just saying that you WANT to go to war with Iran??? Do you think we don't know?
excon
not long given the head start they already have ;and also will many fewer centrifuges than the agreement suggests . That's why I don't believe the agreement is serious . What happened to Sec State Lurch JF Kerry saying inspections will happen "anytime anywhere " . Now the IAEA will have to beg the Iranians to be permitted into a facility .Quote:
How long do you think it takes to develop a bomb?
of course we are . They violated sanctions for years and nothing happened to them . Now we are lifting them on the promise to behave . Like I said ..the emperor is an idiot .Quote:
You are not rewarding their efforts
The Israeli's have twice had to bomb nuclear facilities in Iraq and Syria to prevent their enemies obtaining the bomb. Now I'm not so sure the emperor wouldn't order the US armed forces to shoot down Israeli jets trying to do the same in Iran. After all ;Iran is our new strategic ally in the region. You can't get any more betrayal than that .Quote:
Times change rhetoric changes, Saddam tried it and failed, Hezbollah tried it and failed, Hamas tried it and failed. It is just possible the Iranians have weighed the price and decided as Gaddafi did that there is a lot to be gained by changing course
huh ? The agreement happened this week. I can guarantee that when Congress votes on this there will be significant cross over by Democrats who oppose this too. It won't lead to a veto proof rejection. But it will be a bipartisan majority rejection.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
I want regime change in Iran ..... peacefully if possible ;but regime change is the only possible way to avoid a much worse war .Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Attachment 47623Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Maybe we should rename this thread the "IBN cartoon thread". All the conservatives will come here for the echo chamber effect.
Oh and Ezra Klein - How Stephen Hawking Proves That Investor's Business Daily's Editorial Page Tells Lies
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Sorry, the word got out (which we already knew) was that he wanted it to cement his legacy. Which is going to suck when all hell breaks loose because of it.
P.S. In his speech on the deal he lied about having 24/7 access, which we don't have. Then his minions lied about never wanting 24/7 access, and Biden thinks Dems are going to love it when they can understand it. "We had to make the deal to know what was in the deal!'
Brilliant.
Hello Steve:
Tom spilt the beans.. You want WAR.. Therefore, you'd be against ANY agreement that avoided it.
excon
Actually what I said was "I want regime change in Iran ..... peacefully if possible ;but regime change is the only possible way to avoid a much worse war . "
I had hoped that eventually ;with external pressure applied ,the pendulum would swing in favor of regime change (like sanctions properly applied ,and supporting the Green Revolution). Now we are cementing the 12er's control on the nation ,and supporting the eventual nuclear capable empire,who's goal is exporting a revolution based on one of the most extremist Islamist ideologies...... to creating the chaos necessary for the 12th Imam the Madhi ;who fell in a well,to emerge and usher in Armageddon. A couple nukes will come in handy for that purpose .
Hello again, tom:
Ok, lemme translate.. I dunno WHY you're scared of saying it...
Regime change will NOT happen through negotiation. You don't think it will either, so I don't know why you set that as a benchmark. In fact, if a Republican is elected president, he WON'T negotiate at all..
Therefore, if you're gonna get what you want, WAR is the ONLY way. Now, you can mince words, but you're NOT fooling anybody..
excon
Tom you need to get some fresh ideas. You wanted regime change in Iraq, what you wound up with is far worse that what was there. Ditto for Libya. You wanted regime change in Afghanistan, for the moment you have your puppet installed. You wanted regime change in Syria, how's that going for you? You want regime change in Iran, meanwhile the world has moved on. The question is do the Iranian people want regime change? What you want is irrelevant. You should focus on what can be achieved and solve one problem at a time. For the moment the Iranian bomb has receded into the cupboard
Sorry you are wrong . Had we supported the Green Revoltution there would've been regime change and no war. Now I agree that regime change with a nuked up Iran is impossible without war . So this deal makes the likelyhood of war greater . Great job emperor !Quote:
if you're gonna get what you want, WAR is the ONLY way.
and you want "stability" by having tyrannous dictatorships . What you should understand by now is that that stability is temporary . You are just kicking the can down the road to the day when the sh*t hits the fan . Further ,the longer you delay ,the more powerful those regimes become and the price paid is greater .Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
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