Has common sense, like Elvis, left the building?

An art exhibition featuring cartoons of Mohammed attracted gumen who shot up the place and were killed

Gunmen shot dead after opening fire at art exhibition in Texas featuring depictions of Prophet Mohammed - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

I have to ask, did anyone not expect this to deliberately provoke an incident? Particularly in the light of recent events elsewhere. This is not, as the organisers suggest about freedom of speech, it is like yelling fire in a crowded theatre. I would be the first to say jihadists need to pull their head in, however deliberately prevoking them is stupid. It is to be hoped security agencies pay the same attemtion to these people as they would to the jihadists, prevoking a terrorist act should carry the same penalties as the act itself

Having seen a great deal on the web by the organizer of the event, I would not be surprised if the event was held to draw the muj out from hiding.

Her website: http://pamelageller.com/about/

So really what your saying is we should give up our lands and allow sharia law to take over because if we resist then it might offnd them and they like to kill those that offend them for any number of reasons.

Bull, it was about freedom of speech and to show that even in this country your not safe from the nutcases that want to preach hate and death.

Would you have rather it been another art exhibit with Christ in some bodily fluid?

This was the same group that protested the muslims use of school district facilities for their own rallies.

500 Protest Islamic Conference At Garland ISD Facility « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

Sounding Off: Garland-Mesquite residents debate Garland ISD’s actions to allow a Muslim peace conference | Dallas Morning News

It should be noted that two nut jobs involved in criminal behavior have no reflection on the muslim community in Garland who didn't protest the groups activity. The group had their own security in place and obviously prepared.

Islam debate returns to Garland ISD’s Culwell Center with Muhammad art event | Dallas Morning News

It's just like comparing Islam with the dopes who did the French terrorist stuff. They are criminal loony idiots! No different than ISIS, or the KKK, godless NUTS!!!

No I never said that obviously we vigourously defend our lands against aggression but there was no evidence of aggression before this event was held. I think that other art exhibition was deplorable and should not have been allowed. Just because a thing can be done doesn't mean it should be, and those who deliberately provoke whether it be on religious or racial grounds should be dealt with severely. We should not be going out of our way to offend any group. That is the real point here I'm for a sane society where we live together in harmony not one where we feel we must always assert our superiority. This exhibition wasn't about freedom

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Originally Posted by paraclete

I'm for a sane society where we live together in harmony not one where we feel we must always assert our superiority.

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Tell the Islamics that. Their goals are different.

This sums up my feelings... and from the big guy himself.
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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

This sums up my feelings... and from the big guy himself.
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As always, I am with u

The Islamic community didn't show up, but a couple of nuts did. Even Hebdo spared no religion his cartoon opinions, but Geller and her group had one subject in mind.

Racists have a right to free speech, but that doesn't change the fact they are haters and racist.

Fanatics of any persuasion do not have the right to inflame a situation to the point where someone gets killed that goes for both racial and religious issues and we should stop the namby pamby nonsense of protecting free speech when there is obvious intention to inflame and cause offense. This was one such instance but there are many examples in recent history.

There is such a thing as a duty of care and that includes protecting everyone

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Originally Posted by paraclete

we should stop the namby pamby nonsense of protecting free speech

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Heil Paraclete!

You have choices and with those choices comes responsibility. We don't shoot people for what they say, nor do we throw them in jail. That is the basics of a free society, and all are protected by it. Even this hate spewing Geller group.

Even in a place like Garland Tx, the support for the Gellers is loud, but a small group. Let 'em hate, while others who hate follow them, and the rest ignore them. Only a warped sick fool gets a gun to shut them up!

ISIS loves these small groups of haters though that spur the ignorant nut cases to actions they benefit from.

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Originally Posted by Catsmine

Heil Paraclete!

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That's the way of the dictator cats, taking what is said out of context and verballing someone, you have joined the ranks of Goebells

No context to take. You said what you said. You wish to control peoples' speech. I will not allow you to claim you said something else.

Freedom of speech is a right that is protected, you can say whatever who want. It is the repercussions that you need to deal with. One could post graphic and obscene cartoons of Muhammad violating Jesus's nail holes as some sort of divine hand job. There is NOTHING stopping anyone from doing that. The fallout is the problem. You could be murdered. You could be fired from your job. You could be ostracized by the world. You're life could be ruined and over.

From what I gather the artist believed that there wouldn't be any severe fallout beyond the controversy. The controversy was what he was going for in this case to bring several issues into the collective consciousness for processing. He caused this to happen but isn't responsible for it. Given the nature of the subject he'd assume that something like this could happen but it isn't on us to censor his artwork.

I think it is disgusting and arrogant of us as a society to disrespect Islam the way we're doing at the moment. It isn't a sign of the enlightened society we claim to be. If their faith says to refrain from portraying Muhammad in art then don't do. Not because the harsh religion says so, but out of respect for another fellows faith. It's the only way we're going to be able to live together as society and not fall to pieces as we're doing now.

I think we have to stop thinking in broadbrush definitions and take things at face value. Speech means speech or reported speech, it doesn't mean art, and the right to go out of your way to offend doesn't exist. As far as respecting Islam is concerned I'll do that when they stop killing Christians but my disrespect comes from different sources it results from their actions. My faith asks me to refrain from killing therefore by your standard muslims should refrain from killing people of my faith and their own scriptures suggest that but they fail to heed it and they kill their own just as easily.

Why should common sense be dictated by what artists say they believe? The deluded minds that create what is said to be art offer no standard of behaviour and they should be guided by society as to what is acceptable when dealing with certain subjects I deplore the attack on Charlie Hebdo but I think they were not wise in doing what they did and putting their staff at risk. Similarly these people in Dallas were not wise in acting as provocateurs. They did not have public saferty in mind

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Fanatics of any persuasion do not have the right to inflame a situation to the point where someone gets killed that goes for both racial and religious issues and we should stop the namby pamby nonsense of protecting free speech when there is obvious intention to inflame and cause offense. This was one such instance but there are many examples in recent history.

There is such a thing as a duty of care and that includes protecting everyone

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Just to set the record straight cats this is what I said. Note the words; obvious intention to inflame and cause offense. I believe the public need to be protected from those who have no intention of protecting public safety irrespective of their views. You apparently believe rabble rousers should be able to ply their trade with indemnity.

Most Americans feel that disgusting as an a$$hole can be, as long as they are within the law, then they can do as they please. Provocative and crazy are not illegal, nor is profiting from being either.

Participation is voluntary.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Most Americans feel that disgusting as an a$$hole can be, as long as they are within the law, then they can do as they please. Provocative and crazy are not illegal, nor is profiting from being either.

Participation is voluntary.

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Agreed. We also have the nut jobs from Westboro Baptist Church who are noted for showing up at funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq or Afghanistan and cheering, saying God is glad they have died (on the theory that God is punishing the US for advancement of gay rights). Clearly that causes great hurt to family and friends, but they're allowed to do it regardless. I view Pamela Geller and her ilk as similar -she's a bigot intent on insulting a group of people and hoping to spark an incident. If her agenda was really about free speech her exhibit should have included works of "art" like "Piss Christ" (look it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ) and burning the American flag - both are forms of protected free speech, per the Supreme Court, and both cause great upset among a lot of people. But she is interested only a targeting Muslims. I whole-heartedly disagree with holding an exhibition of cartoons designed only to inflame, but support her right to do so.

Yes but Westboro doesn't represent Christianity and I have the view they should not be allowed to profane the memory of those soldiers. Perhaps the way around this is to stop protecting such people let them taste the violence they provote first hand. The point is some things are sacred and we have lost the respect for the sacred, whether that is a religion or a soldier who has paid the price, and become more concerned about those who sell liberty very cheaply

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Perhaps the way around this is to stop protecting such people let them taste the violence they provote first hand.

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I disagree very strongly as true freedom depends on equal protection under the law for EVERYBODY!

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The point is some things are sacred and we have lost the respect for the sacred

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In America we all seem to agree that the right to free speech is sacred, and at the top of the list, even if some things PISS you off and there is a difference of opinion. Practicing one's religion (within the boundaries of LAW) is also SACRED.

If those two nutcases in Garland had of protested loudly actions they disagreed with instead of shooting people, then no problem!

That's the problem with extremeists they don't protest peacefully because they want a real result not a talk fest.
Security measures increased at US military bases - BBC News
At least one group in the US takes the threat crediably. The US military expects that ISIS militants will attack bases in the US. Thus far ISIS have not demonstrated that capability but it would be a distraction from their losses in Iraq

Power struggle in Macedonia - BBC News

The attack by albanians on Macedonia is the balkan conflict raising again, and as we know that conflict essentially came down to a conflict between Muslims and others, principally serbs, but the ancient country of Macedonia is not far from these tensions

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

This sums up my feelings... and from the big guy himself.
Attachment 47383

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yup !!

Clete .Don't you see the hypocrisy ? When it was Charlie Hebdo the world stood in unison to defend freedom of speech . When it was Salmon Rushdie the lefties united behind him. But when it's Pam Geller ,well all she's doing is trying to provoke them. She doesn't deserve the same protections.

There is a very popular play on Broadway now that mocks Mormons . You don't see them rising up and making death threats . Suppose it was' Koran the Musical 'instead of 'Book of Mormon' ? Should one be permitted and not the other because one side is prone to violent reaction ? Christians here saw publicly funded "art " that consisted of a crucifix submerged in urine ;and Mary mother of Jesus smeared with elephant dung. I objected to the public funding ;but against the right of the artist to display their 'sculptures' . I think the Islamic State needs to be defeated for their persecutions there . We should certainly not let them dictate what is appropriate in a free society .

Here is the winning cartoon :

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Here is the winning cartoon :

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What is the point of posting something that is no longer available, has censorship taken over at AMHD fearing muslim rhetribution? Or have they been removed elsewhere on the net?

There are more against this sort of behaviour than for it, What happened to your sense of democracy? Tom, these are changed times and what a liberal secular society in the US considers acceptable is not acceptable to much of the world. That has been demonstrated a number of times with tragic consequences. No one should be killed because they express a particular point of view but when you deliberately provoke you are inviting violence.

How do you like the allegation that seal team 6 deliberately targeted and killed a cripple? what a wonderful piece of free speech denigrating your armed services

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Tom, these are changed times and what a liberal secular society in the US considers acceptable is not acceptable to much of the world.

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screw the rest of the world. What the rest of the world should see is what a world dominated by tyranny looks like . They whine about a cartoon depiction of Mohammed while they behead those who won't convert to their religion ;stone women to death ;throw homosexuals from buildings . Let the rest of the world cower to their dictates if they chose to do so. Here in America ,we defend free speech and are not afraid to exercise our right to it.

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How do you like the allegation that seal team 6 deliberately targeted and killed a cripple? what a wonderful piece of free speech denigrating your armed services

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Seymour Hersh has been known for sloppy journalism. Normally he goes after Republicans . He pushes a conspiracy theory that would need thousands of willing participants to pull it off.
As an example . The USS Carl Vinson is a Nimitz class Carrier. That means that there were a minimum of 6,000 personnel on board to witness the burial of OBL . Yet Kirsh says that OBL was jettisoned from the jet into the Hindu Kush mountains. Possible ? Yes ,but I have never heard any sailor from the Vinson say the burial at sea never took place. So some of what he reports is plausible ;and some of it isn't . I personally always thought the Obots embellished the story anyway. It made for a neat campaign slogan ....(the emperor killed OBL ;AQ is on the run ,he ended the war ....etc etc ) . Free speech is one of the closest things to an absolute right.

let me try it again .....
Attachment 47404

Yes Tom you easily dismiss the allegations but you have to admit a massive conspiracy involving Pakistan, who had nothing to gain by concealing Bin Laden, and your own administration. We know these things happen, but scattering body parts? A story designed to make Muslims more angry than the depiction of the prophet, nice portrait, by the way, definitely captures the prophet of peace well. A burial at sea, who knows what the corpse looks like? If they lie about one detail they can lie about others.The fact that there might be 6,000 personnel on a carrier doesn't mean any of them actually saw the corpse. Did they hold public viewings? You see Tom things done in secret give rise to fiction and political manipulation. I like the way you dismiss 95% of the world's population so glibly, as if we are something you scrapped off the sole of your boot. This is what so endears us to the US, your sense of superiority and self righteousness and yet you still haven't dealt with the inequalities in your own society. You really aren't a shinning example that perhaps you once were. The american way or the highway is not a good look.

Let them intimidate Australians into submission if you want to lick their jack boots . 'Don't tread on me. '

Ed Miliband, the head of the British Labor Party, wishes to criminalize “Islamophobia” . There is no problem that a little censorship can't cure . Those who attack the cartoon contest graphically illustrate Pam Geller's case about Islam.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Let them intimidate Australians into submission if you want to lick their jack boots . 'Don't tread on me. '

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If you have kept up lately Tom you will known two terrorist plots have been twarted recently and a number of passports of would be daesh fighters cancelled so Australians are not intimidared but alert and not fooled by islamist propaganda

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Ed Miliband, the head of the British Labor Party, wishes to criminalize “Islamophobia” . There is no problem that a little censorship can't cure . Those who attack the cartoon contest graphically illustrate Pam Geller's case about Islam.

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Given the problem the UK may face he should be criminalising islamisation and by the way Milibrand resigned after electoral defeat so labor won't enjoy an islam led resurgance and such attitudes may have led to his defeat. We all have little doubt that islamists are the rabid tip of the problem Tom but deliberately stirring them up only adds to be problem and as I have said is akin to yelling fire in a crowded theatre

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Originally Posted by paraclete

stirring them up only adds to be problem

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Therefore, no stirring up or we're toast?

I didn't infer that, just that public safety is important too/ Would you knowingly do something that will get someoneelse killed? This is the question that is being ignored here. You don't have a right to put someoneelse in harms way, in some jurisdictions that is called manslaughter

Like the rhetoric you are spewing?

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We all have little doubt that islamists are the rabid tip of the problem

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At least Geller gets PAID for her crap!

Tal to you everything that disagrees with you is crap, why do you defend a provocatuer like Geller? This person brought violence to your community with no apology.

Perhaps the state of your nation is so bad that liberty needs that periodic refreshing. Your police molest your citizens with impunity, Your poor are legion. You even suggest you have near full employment with 50% below the poverty line

The second in command of daesh has been killed leaving the organisation bereft of senior leadership for the moment

Islamic State deputy leader 'killed in Iraq air strike' - BBC News

This might explain why their success has been blunted lately with two senior figures now off the front line. This may be the time for the Iraqi to seize the initiative

Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi implores Muslims to 'go to war everywhere' in new audio recording

El Baghdadi has said islam will never be a religion of peace. He is sort of echoing the thoughts that the rest of us are having

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi implores Muslims to ‘go to war everywhere’ in new audio recording

El Baghdadi has said islam will never be a religion of peace. He is sort of echoing the thoughts that the rest of us are having

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And he speaks for Muslims all over the world? I don't think so!