Now let's consider the fallout

Could it be a certain pipeline might not be needed?

Could it be inflation will be lower and give the economy a boost?

Gas guzzling will be back in fashion?

Could it be the Russian economy will tank along with several other "oil" producers Iran, Saudi, the Gulf, suddenly the terrorists financed by oil will be out of business?


I see a lot of good in this, airlines will become profitable again, fares will become cheaper

Saudi Arabia will tank? No, they are playing a waiting game, with tons of cash in the bank. Russia, Iran? Maybe.

There is good for the consumer (I could care less about the airlines) but there is a point at which our oil producers shut down too many operations, as do others in the world, with the Saudi being by far the cheapest oil to extract. So while the consumer spends happily away (and trade in their Priuses for SUVs), gov'ts and currencies and international corporations and stocks and other commodities will go nuts.

Yes the stock market has gone a little mad so bargains there, I think it is good high cost extraction operations like shale shut down, they are big polluters anyway and if Saudi take a bath for a while that's good too, less fantacy buildings, I think it is ironic my government upped the exise on petroleum products recently, what did they know?

Dropping oil prices, in Ontariio at 90 cents a litre, and US are coming across the border to buy gas here. It is scary. Any lower and the economy on the north American continent is going to suffer.

The keystone pipeline will still be needed, regardless of what the Enviro-Idiots say. Just because a lobby group is overly vocal doesn't mean their message is right, scientifically, economically, or logically.

This is the Saudis trying to put some of their competition out of business. It is just a business decision on their part. They're still doing MASSIVE amounts of explorations and aren't looking to stop this year or next. There is no push to put terrorist organizations out of business or boost any economy besides their own. This is just like if Ford cut their prices MASSIVELY to put GMC and Chrysler out of business.

lower gas prices are good .....period. The only negatives in the US will be that some of the frackers will have to tighen their belts and live with reduced profit margins.

I wish the Repubics would go even further in their energy bill besides the XL . They should push for exploration on Federal lands ,and getting rid of restrictions on export bans. The emperor's minions are touting the economy expansion without mentioning that it is the reduced cost of energy that is primarily responsible for the surge. If he takes credit for lower prices will he also accept the blame for the price when it hovered over $100/bbl ? Of course not . Back then it was 'greedy ' oil companies . Now that the prices are low ,are they no longer greedy ?

Pipelines are a better alternative to using Warren Buffet's freight transportation. It's safer and more enviromentally sound ;on top of being the economical way to transport oil and LNG .

All good except for running it through Indian lands, and ranches, and natural aquafires. (Cannot substantiate the rumor of a new route at this time) Does imminent domain apply to foreign companies or should it? Why doesn't Canada have its own refineries or direct route pipelines?

As for oil prices, the president was blasted for high prices so fair enough to get credit for low ones, even if its all BS in the first place. The Saudis break even price is 10 bucks a barrel, so those Arab CAPITALISTS are calling the shots in the FREE MARKET!

Here's how the price of oil could fall to just $20 a barrel | Financial Post

The links in this article are great.

The greedy oil corps CAN"T be more greedy is closer to the point!

Canada does have refineries, just not enough to handle what we have coming out. It is cheaper to send it south to be refined and sold. We're looking at sending a pipline to the east and west coasts. The enviro-idiots are protesting and making it hard to do that as well. We are working on reversing flow and increasing the size of a pipe headed east. The western pipe would go to a deep port to ship to china. There is just too much being produced and how we get our best price is to ship it across the border.

Tal do you read the ops you post? That article doesn't demonstrate anything expect the journo is niaive. We all remember the days of cheap oil and would like to see them again just as we would like to see the days of cheap gold, watch that one. When you have a product under pressure you can sell lower or make more, but demand for oil isn't as elastic as it used to be and there are more producers today. Everyone wants a piece of the action and if Iran is allowed to come in from the cold we could see the price fall again.

The G20 wanted a boost to growth, here it is but we should be concerned about the Russian economy tanking, we don't want any nuclear armed nation backed to the wall. As to the XL pipeline, all it needs is a better route, if they want more capacity follow the existing route

They would rather build a new one and forget the old one Clete. It's easier to think it's the enviro nuts against the new pipeline rather than see them as landowners and dwellers in the way of corporate interests. Naw, they can't slow down the trains, or buy new ones, or builder bigger and better refineries.

Capitalism always works in its own interests Clete, and tells you how much better YOU would be if you let them grab for their own gold. Do you really think a sweetheart deal between American refineries, and Canadian sludge oil producers benefits the little guys in the middle? If it does, its minuscule and incidental. The Saudis are drying up the revenue streams quite effectively, and Russia can get with the program any time it pleases. So can China. No sympathy for the self interests, whether they have NUKES, or not.

why isn't pipeline 'infrastructure' ? The XL is nice ,but it doesn't come close to what I have in mind. Your concern about the risk of a single pipeline is comical compared to the risk of using rail to transport energy . My vision includes running LNG piplines direct to service stations so consumers have the choice of using petroleum or natural gas fueled autos. As an enviro-nut you should favor that since it does run cleaner .

Let me tell you how the enviro-wacko movement is killing my state . Upstate NY has been in a virtual economic depression for far longer than even the 2008 global recession. Now we sit on one of the largest shale oil/gas deposits in the country. So first our Governor il Duce Cuomo said he'd wait on the endless environmental studies before he would permit fracking . Then after all the studies came out saying it was safe ,he stalled some more until after he won reelection. Then he caved in to the nut job elitists like Yoko Ono and RFK Jr . and decided to continue the ban. So while states on the border like Pennsylvania have enjoyed the economic boom ; upstate NY still is in economic depression.
Their plan to turn it around .????? Casinos !!! Cuomo's a f-n idiot !

You can have too much infrastructure Tom, LNG pipelines criss-crossing the country is a recipe for disaster when you add them to all the other assets that already exist, don't you already have gas pipelines. You should get with the science, fracking is bad news, it pollutes ground water and may be a long term disaster, extraction from shale has been an environmental disaster, the water courses used to run with volitiles when it was done here. Maybe you should look elsewhere for that idiot

Companies are responsible for pipeline infrastructure, NOT taxpayers. So until they get it together, slow the trains down to a safe speed, and buy new rail cars, maintain the railroad tracks. How about roads, and bridges for citizens, or a more efficient POWER grid?

NYS State Dept did an exhaustive study and found fracking is safe if done properly . Banning it is and unscientific political response. The United States has seen dramatic reductions in national carbon dioxide emissions largely as a result of hydraulic fracking BECAUSE it enables us to extract the cleanest and most abundant energy source the US produces ...natural gas. Even former Obama Adm EPA boss Lisa Jackson says it is safe .
.: U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page :.
So have other former Obama Czars .
Ken Salazar, Steven Chu praise fracking as 'safe' | WashingtonExaminer.com

If you are looking for a bridge from carbon based to renewables then LNG is your answer .

Firstly Tom I'm not looking for a bridge to renewables, all that takes is will power and in any case it already exists in nuclear. Secondly, fracking has been suspended in large parts of my homeland because of ground water contamination and environmental issues, it has become a question of which industry you support; agriculture or gas production? Fracking has only been found safe for those in bed with big business

I think it possible you might have read this report
Is Fracking Safe? The Top 10 Myths About Natural Gas Drilling - Popular Mechanics

However I think the downside is too easily dismissed in the euphoria
let's debunk some popular myths

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...-wind-solar-10

Again ,Lisa Jackson, former EPA head for the emperor and no friend of big business or fossil fuels , has testified to Congress that she is “not aware of any proven case where the fracking process itself has affected water. ” Obama's EPA has extensively investigated it and concluded that “1.2 million wells have been hydraulically fractured without a single confirmed case of groundwater contamination.”

We have studies here too Tom, and earthquakes... water contamination? Sure do!

How Fracking Disposal Wells Are Causing Earthquakes in Dallas-Fort Worth | StateImpact Texas

Small Earthquake Strikes Near Fort Worth | StateImpact Texas

Groundwater Contamination Higher Near North Texas Gas Wells - The Texas Observer

Nine earthquakes rattle North Texas in under 24 hours | Fox News

Maybe Cuomo is looking at more than just money.

What Tom doesn't realise, or perhaps admit, is that the downside of extractive industries aren't always immediately apparent and we can point to numerous examples the best known of which is asbestos, which not only contaminated landscapes but the contamination in buildings exists even today. You have to look beyond the money.

I wouldn't expect Obama and his administration to be squeaky clean so I wouldn't swallow everything they say, he is looking for legacy so why wouldn't he embrace the new industry which gives promise of reduced carbon and energy sufficiency. We need to be very careful about decisions based on carbon

The emperor doesn't embrace it . He opposes anything carbon based because he is an ideologue. As far as earthquakes go ;there is more seismic activity in Texas due to Chris Christie's excessive celebrations following a Cowboy victory . You're really trying to sell the bs that a small hole dug into rock is going to cause seismic shifts ?

Tom don't come the raw prawn with me, a hole in the ground doesn't cause earthquakes, however injecting water under pressure so that you alter the existing balance may give rise to shifts just as emptying the chambers of oil, etc has caused problems. Some faults are delicately balanced and besides there are now thousands of these fracking wells, so we are not dealing with one hole, or are we?

LOL Tom, now that was funny about Christy celebrations causing earthquakes in Texas, but just as you don't buy the politicians account, I wouldn't buy the company account of their policy, and procedures in the fracking/oil pipeline debate being totally safe either. There have been enough documented cases, and instances of devastating oil spills, and water contaminations, to warrant an abundance of caution and oversight, and further study.

Can't they make money a lot more safely? As profitable as oil/gas exploration and development is, it's also proven dangerous not just to humans, but animals, fish, and the environment. Would you be so gung ho if it was YOUR neighborhood covered in smelly oil? Or YOUR water tasting foul and being flammable? Or YOUR house shaking off its foundations?

Naw, I think you would be raising hell, and seeking answers, AND compensation for losses, and disruptions, AND DEMANDING somebodies head to roll!

Would you blame Cuomo for allowing it? Sure you would, just like you blame him now for NOT allowing it!

um I live in the area I want developed .

I get that, but you also want safety protocols and proper accountability also don't you? You surely don't want a major screw up and the developer to walk away and leave you with a mess do you?

of course ;and those are easily doable . This is not exactly new technology . The ones doing it properly even have water treatment recycling on site. (not that there is a whole lot of water being used anyway ).

Quote:

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“Just a few years ago, many drillers suspected water recyclers were trying to sell an unproven idea designed to drain money from multimillion dollar businesses. Now the system is helping drillers use less freshwater and dispose of less wastewater. Recycling is rapidly becoming a popular and economic solution for a burgeoning industry.”

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Correction: Fracking-Water Recycling story
I've been watching it from across the border . Pa. is not having any of the issues that alarmist claim. What they do have is an economic boom that we in NY do not share .
You are listening to different propaganda. in many areas there are fissures already in the rock formations where gasses like methane and radon already seep into the water supply . Often when fracking is blamed ,an examination of the real cause is something like a poorly drilled water well.

I have been actually following the complaints, and lawsuits, and settlements posted on the Pa EPA government website, as well as tracking the news archives. I do that for several states in fact.

That's where I draw the conclusions I do because smart, safe, development balanced with oversights and accountability is good for people, and businesses. Wouldn't you agree?

that may be your position . But the Yoko Ono's and JFK Jr 's of NY were going to block it regardless of the evidence . Idiot enviro-wackos are killing us . They say a good alternative is to put up windmills along every ridge line of the Catskills (except for the ones that they have a view of from their vacation homes ) . NY lost a golden opportunity here and these fool's only answer is to build casinos .

Read the report below about the migration of population out of the state carefully .

Group: New York’s population exodus continues

The opportunity is not lost as the stuff is still there waiting for a safer plan, with better benefits, and better outcomes. Why screw it up and have citizens at risk?

Tom is one of those who supports business at any cost, the right to make money over all other rights, eh Tom?

Quote:

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Tom is one of those who supports business at any cost, the right to make money over all other rights, eh Tom?

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That actually is a pretty accurate synopsis.

the labor flight from NY is real. Typical of elitist liberals to try and keep the working class down and dependent on government .

Quote:

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elitist liberals to try and keep the working class down

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<yawn>
You keep fighting the good fight sir!. from your keyboard.

I think there is something very wrong if this Mccarthyist propaganda is loose in the land, what we would say of someone like this is he has some roos loose in the top paddock. Tom you definitely need another revolution over there, but wait, it was those eleteist liberals that started the last one. You need to decide which side you are on

wrong on a couple points .
1 there is a huge difference between today's Fabian socialists who call themselves liberal and the classic liberalism of the founders .

2. The revolution's roots were in the working class of the streets of Boston and other cities,on the farms of the colonies , objecting to central control of a distant government that prevented them and their future nation from achieving it's potential. There were too many tariffs, duties, regulations ,taxes and restrictions imposed from 3,000 miles away.
The colonies were forced to buy and sell only with British merchants, instead of being able trade freely with whomever offered them the best opportunities. They were forced to import expensive British goods, instead of producing them at home, where natural resources abounded . Yeah there were some property owners ,but their interests were common with the interests of the man on the street and on the farm. It was the common man that rebelled against the Stamp Act.It was the common man that took to the streets of Boston to oppose occupation. It was the common man like Samuel Adams (who had to borrow clothes to attend the Continental Convention) who boarded the British ship and dumped the tea into the harbor;who burned down tax and other government offices .The revolution's roots were in the Town Hall meetings across the land ;not in the mansions of the landed gentry . It was only when the roots of the revolution had taken place that the so called elites saw the inevitability and signed on.

Here in NY it is the worker who is suffering from the lost opportunities due to pretty much the same intolerable directives from an out of touch state government .

tal ; the current leadership in the state will NEVER allow the commercial extraction of the Marcellus shale gas and oil . There will always be those phony safety concerns because there is always risks in harvesting any form of energy .

Did you read the link about the Texas fracking controversy? It's hardly the liberal elites hollering here, but maybe we need to listen if northern elite liberals and southern conservatives are hollering about the same thing.

Back to XL because there is news . Nebraska's Supreme Court tossed out the Legislature's lawsuit .This leaves the call about the route to Governor Ricketts(it was originally approved by former Governor Dave Heineman) . The route will not change through Nebraska.

One of the emperor's stall tactics was to claim he was waiting for the results of the lawsuit before he approved. He did that because he did not want to commit to his position before the elections. Since then he has signaled on at least 2 occasions that he will veto any vote on XL by Congress. (more Obama gridlock).Last year his State Dept's Environmental Impact statement said that the pipeline would not significantly impact the environment ;nor would it significantly increase' carbon pollution'.
If the emperor vetoes Congressional action ,that would put JF Kerry on the hot seat. For political reasons (he sees another run at the White House ) ,he has not committed to any position on the pipeline.
So he may stall until his term expires . Not good news for our good neighbors to the north ,our most important trading partner. Nor is it good news for the US . The Canadian tar sands oil will still make it to market (. But now the US will not benefit from it . PM Harper said he thought the delay was electoral politics in the US . He is mistaken . The emperor has no intention to allow the construction. Should be an interesting meeting when they get together to finalize the 'Beyond the Border' deal.Harper says he doesn't want the Canadian economy held hostage. So Canada is looking to Asia as an alternative customer .

You still have to get South Dakota on board,

South Dakota regulators limit disclosure in Keystone XL pipeline case, but opponents appeased | Fox Business

I expect you have waited six years to use the phrase Obama gridlock Tom but you never complained about the Boehner gridlock. Where do you get the US will not benefit from Canadian product making it to market, the US is benefiting now as it is transported by other means, but Canada needs to learn a lesson from this, don't rely on the US to process your oil for you and rely on your own transport resources, build your own pipeline even with Asian help

We process our own petroleum.

Apparently you need greater capacity, just as we do, there has been a trend to rely on cheaper producers in far away places which is contrary to the national interest, a much forgotten concept these days except for a few