I know we have discussed the Ferguson case before but this has taken a nasty turn

Michael Brown's mother: 'This could be your child' - CNN.com

It becomes obvious that anytime you don't like a court decision you take to the streets and protest. The officer involved here has been found guilty in the court of public opinion even though a Grand Jury found he didn't have a case to answer. So the point becomes a question of the victims character, was he the neighbourhood hood he appeared to be? Or the lovely child his parents thought him to be? That question doesn't appear to have been answered but the accusation has been made that his character was assassinated. It has been brushed aside, tarred with the stink of racism. Other questions surround the treatment of the victims remains.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/25/op...html?hpt=hp_c1

When did it become racist to apprehend a suspect or call into question the actions of a teenager. I wonder how a black police officer would have acted in these circumstances?

How do you define racism? Discrimination or something more, Is it disliking the actions of a specific group of people? Will the father be charged for inciting a riot. There are deep cultural questions to be answered.

What your not understanding is the way the laws around the country work. Was this shooting justified? I havent read the testimony from the grand jury but so far it looks justified.

What we have now in this country is a deep seeded lust for money at any price. Those that wish to fan the flames of race over and over again because they profit from it so heavily. Even our president incites the flames of racism. It is hard to deal with issues when you have persons that are fanning the flames while you stand by with a squirt gun to put them out.

If the real truth got out that we are all pretty much the same no matter what the color of our skin is then those that are making the money from it would have to find something else to do. Right now its not a choice as the money is too big.

This is all unfortunate, but there are pictures of this man beating up a store owner and trashing the store. I don't quite remember where I saw the pics. They are from a security camera in the store. I don't think he was as lily white as his mom states. He looked to be a real thug. I imagine anyone could dig up the pics on Google by putting in the pertinent information.

This incident has gone viral. They are protesting in Toronto and across the country in both Canada and the US.

When will it stop ?

there were 2 court decisions this week in Arkansas and Mississippi that overturned gay marriage bans. Should there now be riots over those decisions ? I got an idea. There have been multiple arrests over the riots . Let's deny them due process and serve a verdict now .

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I wonder how a black police officer would have acted in these circumstances?

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You don't have to search far for that answer . August 11 ; Dillon Taylor was gunned down by non-white Salt Lake City police officer, Bron Cruz.
What ? You haven't heard of this story ? No surprise there . There have been multiple protests over this shooting .... but no looting ,violence ,arson etc. There have instead been peaceful democratic protests.

Michael Brown was no longer a "child" at 6'5" and 289 lbs. He had just stolen cigarellos from a convenience/liquor store, shoved the clerk around, then walked down the middle of the street, blocking traffic. Google Youtube "Michael Brown robbery" (without quote marks) for the video.

Only he and Officer Wilson know what really happened after that. Officer Brown did try to stop Brown with shots to his right arm. Apparently, we still don't know if Brown was lunging toward Wilson or trying to surrender when the fatal shots caught him in the head.

The Officer gave clear evidence he was in a rage and was not surrendering, you have to question his sanity. Where was the car camera to record the events, I though such things were standard. Was killing him outright over the top? We all have these incidents of police shooting and sometimes for lesser circumstances than these, but the public response is ridiculous and all taking part should be prosecuted, particularly the father for what is at the least incitement to riot and may even be sedition, that is; inciting revolt against the state. It cannot be excused as grief, the death happened weeks ago.

Any group that uses the racist tag as an incitement to violence should not be dismissed as a lawful protest or a response to racism, it is in itself an expression of racism but you can never call a black man racist.

Having said that what is happened is obviously part of some deep seated issues regarding the conduct of both law enforcement and the community generally

Michael Brown's stepfather got it right, people just don't realize he was talking about his wife

Michael Brown's stepfather: 'Burn this down!' - CNN.com

That remark is unhelpful

The Grand Jury determined the officer was justified . We are told that we have to accept the justice system when cases like OJ go against what we believe happened. But what we have is an emperor stoking up tensions with his version of social justice over individual justice . After the verdict he said the anger on the street was justified because of historical injustice. Before that he told the UN that Ferguson was representative of America's failings .
To him ,Brown and Wilson are props in his narrative. He said " We need to recognize that the situation in Ferguson speaks to broader challenges that we still face as a nation. The fact is in too many parts of this country a deep distrust exists between law enforcement and communities of color. Some of this is the result of the legacy of racial discrimination in this country." He was projecting a justification for the riots that happened after the grand jury decision. He enabled the rioters with his words .

Tom It maybe he has correctly identified the elephant in the room, you don't get a lot of marks for stating the bleeding obvious even if you do it articulately. The fact is 150 years ago a slave population, a population of non citizens found itsself "free", but the attitudes of the rest of the population were not addressed and so a hundred years later you got around to really addressing the issues, but you would think the current generation after 50 years of civil rights would no longer feel oppressed. Clearly this isn't so. But all of this must be seen against the background of poverty, economic hardship and that other elephant in the room, law enforcement and the drug problem. I expect every cop expects daily to encounter some hop head bent on violence and on statistics the probability that will be a person of colour.

Now Obama is a savvy politician and he can use what is happening here to force change, to add to his legacy and he may well be doing that. You can bet he will ask Congress to provide legislation to address these issues

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Now Obama is a savvy politician and he can use what is happening here to force change, to add to his legacy and he may well be doing that. You can bet he will ask Congress to provide legislation to address these issues

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No he won't ;he's directed Eric Holder to "work with cities across the country to help build better relations between communities and law enforcement. That means working with law enforcement officials to make sure their ranks are representative of the communities they serve. We know that makes a difference. It means working to train officials so that law enforcement conducts itself in a way that is fair to everybody. It means enlisting the community actively on what should be everybody's goal, and that is to prevent crime." He's not interested in legislation .It's raw power he likes.
As for his legacy ...... it's the trashed and looted convenience store of the original victim . His business was destroyed yesterday by the mob that felt justified due to some historic grievance to loot and vandalize the business he built to serve the community . The emperor can wear that legacy .

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but you would think the current generation after 50 years of civil rights would no longer feel oppressed. Clearly this isn't so.

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Why do you think that is? Could it be the "Community Organizers" that have been profiting from keeping tensions inflamed for that same 50 years?

No it is because you expect there might be positive impacts and momentum in such issues. Look I know it is difficult, we experience much the same with our indigenous, there seems to be a glass ceiling in racial matters. But changing the terminology you use when referring to ethnic groups still emphasises the differences, it is not inclusive language and I expect that it entrenches attitudes. A Scot said it long ago "a man is a man for all that". We all become frustrated with entrenched problems in our communities, and disadvantage brings frustration most of all. All those jobs that were exported to bring cheap goods from China should have stayed home. Maybe some people benefited from cheap goods but they would have benefited more from employment. When I make these remarks I'm not only referring to your economy, I'm also including my own.

A government has a responsibilty to protect its own first not run off solving the world's problems

I had a case, about 15 years ago. I was attacked by two black gang members, who were upset, I had destroyed their "gang markings" showing their territory. One had a baseball bat. These "young sweet boys" were all 6 feet tall and in that 160 to 180 lb range.

I was a state officer at that time, but off duty. I use serious force to disarm the one with the bat and very strong force to subdue the one that had the bat. The other one got away.

At this point,
1. not CPS got called since I had seriously beaten a child. (remember I was off duty) CPS then wanted to interview my children for possible abuse problems.

2. At court, these gang members, had long sleeve dress shirts and ties, ( hiding gang tattoos) and looked like they were going to Sunday school.

The defense objected that I appeared to testify in uniform, since this was no done in my official capacity and my uniform, would influence the jury.

The "child" was presented as a well behaved young man, who was just going to play baseball when I attacked him and his friend. ( yes you guessed it, because he was black)

I had a hard time getting any witness to testify, yes, they were scared of what gangs would do to them.

So, if anyone wanted to testify for this officer, I doubt they would, out of fear of the mobs and being labeled a traitor or worst.

In the case I had, the case was taken back to juv court (we had him charged as an adult at first) and he got 6 months in Juv lock up where he got honor for having served time.

Good straight A students commit crimes, that is an issue, at sentencing, for them if they are charged. But the facts of the crime, should be what a jury looks at.

In this case, honestly a Grand Jury almost never finds that there is not a case. The evidence showing this was a justified shooting must have been very strong.

Chuck you know in these cases the facts shouldn't get in the way of a good story. The presumption of innocence wasn't afforded to the officer by the black community, they had him tried, convicted, sentenced to death and executed before any Grand Jury looked at the case and when this didn't happen they went out for blood.

Yes, I worry about the Federal case, since the Justice Department sways with political pressure. But so true, truth has nothing to do with good news

Natalie Dubose's business, Cakes & More, was the target of the arson, rioting and looting that followed the grand jury's decision She built her business by herself (yes she did emperor ).No one from the government did it and no one from the government is there now to help her fill all the orders she took for the Thanksgiving holiday .
She pleaded before the decision,
"If I can't open my doors in the morning, I can't feed my kids in the evening,"....
"Just don't burn my shop down, don't destroy it" .

She opened her shop in June, a couple months before the Brown shooting . The riots after the shooting almost shut down her business. For two weeks after the shooting not a single customer entered her shop.

"I am a single mom, a mother of two,"..."This is everything I own; I can't walk away from it. I just got to start up and start baking again."...
"We have orders to go out for Thanksgiving. I can't tell the people — I won't tell the people — that I'm canceling." So she went back to her destroyed shop ,salvaged what she could ,and went back to work.

Yes Tom a mob is mindless and someone should send Mr. Brown the bill, he incited the riot and is directly responsible for the carnage. No, let's see him before a Grand Jury, maybe he will find their next decision more to his liking

They still haven't arrested Brown's stepfather for inciting a riot but it is getting closer

Michael Brown's stepfather: 'Burn this down!' - CNN.com

How obvious can you be? You can try a police officer in the court of public opinion but a malcontent can't be touched and for the most racist of reasons

so yesterday ,at the 25,000 attended millions march in NYC ,the protesters were recorded chanting "what do we want ? ...dead cops ! "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8

Yes Tom lovely people and you cannot wonder at the reaction of the cops in their community what would happen if the chant were reversed and the police marched chanting, but they wouldn't do that because they are not allowed to be a mindless mob. Best thing you can do is throw open your borders to hispancis so they will dilute the influence of blacks in your population, breed them out is a strategy

Hope the emperor ,Eric Holder ,and Sandanista Bill de Blasio are happy .

Officers Rafael Ramos, Wenjian Liu Shot Execution-Style In Brooklyn « CBS New York

Yes that's right ,they helped stoke the fire ;especially de Blasio with his irresponsible rhetoric .
NYC Mayor de Blasio Criticized After Cop Killings - ABC News

A nut did his dirt, and cops added to the outrage by making this about politics? That's both stupid, and irresponsible.

Its like you and Clete always say, when will good Muslims stand against the bad ones? Well when will good cops stand against the bad ones who make them look bad?

it was de Blasio ,outrageously catering to the mob mentality who was stupid and irresponsible .

The guy who killed two cops had nothing to do with the protesters. Nor did the protestors have a darned thing to do with cops getting assassinated by a but job, criminal. To blame the mayor for the actions of a nut job criminal is insane politics and disgusting.

The issue is holding bad cops accountable. That's what the protests are about!

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The issue is holding bad cops accountable.

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You're absolutely right on that one. The confusion seems to be which cops are bad. Darren Wilson and Daniel Pantaleo don't seem to be but Timothy Loehmann seems to fit the bill, as well as the Costa Mesa Police Union.

Once we get past the soaring rhetoric, the bad politics, and the intense feelings maybe we can look at the unbiased FACTS, and do something constructive, and productive, that we can all benefit from.

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The issue is holding bad cops accountable. That's what the protests are about!

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8
Bill De Blasio Explains Why His Son Needs To Be Careful Around Cops
Cops hit out at Bill de Blasio after mayor describes 'attack on officers at protests' | Daily Mail Online

Nitpicking. You know as well as I do that this only part of the story. The so called unions don't even acknowledge that there are bad cops who do bad things.

de Blasio should just admit he was wrong in putting too much emphasis on police conduct, as opposed to violent crime.Even better ,he should just resign and go try to become mayor of Managua.

Police conduct is what the protest are all about all over the country. You mean we can't deal with violent crime AND bad cops? I think we should at least try. Stop defending bad cops, that are killing innocent people.

It starts to get bad when citizens start killing cops in the name of protection or civil rights. But a population frustrated with bad court decisions shouldn't take viligante action and in the interests of clarity, this comes down to easy access to guns in the community. The gun makes people feel empowered to take the law into their own hands. This is the wrong form of empowerment

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Originally Posted by paraclete

The gun makes people feel empowered to take the law into their own hands.

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Strange. The only guns on the news in Ferguson were in the hands of citizens protecting businesses from looters. Didn't hear about any at the New York protests, either.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

It starts to get bad when citizens start killing cops in the name of protection or civil rights.

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What part of criminal nut jobs are you not getting? Shame you don't know a criminal from a citizen!

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But a population frustrated with bad court decisions shouldn't take viligante action

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What part of the right to protest injustice is it you don't understand? Too bad you don't know the difference between the right to protest, and those that take the law in their own hands.

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and in the interests of clarity, this comes down to easy access to guns in the community.

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Its not good citizen you have to worry about, its criminal nut jobs and bad cops. I know, hard to tell them apart!

[/QUOTE]The gun makes people feel empowered to take the law into their own hands. This is the wrong form of empowerment[/QUOTE]

Disarm the criminal nut jobs, and bad cops! (personal attack deleted)

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Disarm the criminal nut jobs, and bad cops!

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when have I suggested you shouldn't do that? You see confused between the boundries of legal and illegal. It is not legal to burn buildings down in protest. It is not legal for cops to indiscriminately kill. It is not legal to incite riot, that is not free speech or protest. It is not legal to kill cops. You see tal when the problem becomes you don't know who is standing beside you or whether they are a nut job with a gun, you start by removing the guns, the nut jobs will mainfest. Police have a hard job and they make mistakes they should be both supported and accountable.

You have a bad situation take the accountability to where it belongs, the legislature and change bad politicians and bad laws. You don't need new laws to do this, you don't need guns to do this, what you need is peaceful citizens standing up, unarmed so that they provide no excuse for violence

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peaceful citizens standing up, unarmed so that they provide no excuse for violence

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That's what peaceful protests are about. Unfortunately a few bad apples, both among protesters and cops get unruly, or over aggressive. It only takes a small number to make a minority look bad. And we aren't talking about new laws, just modifying old ones. Basically WHO applies them.

WHO? You have a police force, in fact many police forces, you have security services, you have courts, if these aren't enough to enforce laws. Perhaps what you need to consider is that you have too many layers of law enforcement, so that they are not all playing by the same playbook. I know it's a radical idea to you but do you really need local law enforcment and state police? Do you need homeland security and multiple layers of security forces? If the answer is corruption then you really need to deal with that

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Police conduct is what the protest are all about all over the country. You mean we can't deal with violent crime AND bad cops? I think we should at least try. Stop defending bad cops, that are killing innocent people.

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Bunk ! They aren't protesting the conduct of a couple bad cops . They are defacto making the charge that it is a systemic problem . Sharpton ,DeBlasio the emperor and Holder have inflamed the situation with their rhetoric so now it's open season on cops . You had protesters in NYC chanting that they want cops dead . You had protestors in NYC mug cops on the Brooklyn Bridge. We have in the last few days had 3 cops shot execution style . Their blood is on the agitators I mentioned .

I don't know why you have such a hard time grasping this ;especially in the case of Sharpton who has a history of inciting riots. This is nothing new for him. He also incited the Crown Heights riots 1991 . The day before the riots began Sharpton said "If the Jews want to get it on, tell them to pin their yarmulkes back and come over to my house".1995 he incited a massacre at Freddie's Fashion Mart. Of course now he is back peddling after the killings and posturing that he has only called for 'peaceful protest' . But his rhetoric has said something else.

So ok ,Sharpton is not an elected official .But he has held court in the White House and in City Hall. So yeah he is culpable .
But what about the emperor ,Holder ,and DeBlasio ? Instead of putting a lid on tensions ,they have helped inflame them. They helped raise racial tensions and hatred for police in Ferguson, St. Louis, and eventually nationwide. When a grand jury declined to indict the police officer who shot Michael Brown in self defense , rioting commenced and they did not try to stop the riots. The police and National Guard were directed to stand back while anarchists and looters destroyed Ferguson.
Now of course he will swiftly change his rhetoric like he did when he claimed the the police acted 'stupidly ' in the arrest of Henry Loius Gates ;calling his stupid comments a 'teachable moment '. Maybe he now sees what his stupid inflamatory comments have wrought and he can chalk it off as another 'teachable moment'.

Here in NY de Blasio characterized his own police as racists and bullies who need to be reigned in and retrained. These murders are a predictable outcome of the divisive anti-cop rhetoric of de Blasio. Right after the Grand Jury decision deBlasio got on the podium and said that his wife and teenage son are not "safe from the very people they want to have faith in as their protectors." What kind of message does that send ? Was he talking about a couple of bad cops then ;or was he indicting the whole force ?
He also should've been more forceful in policing the so called 'peaceful protests' here in NY . They marched without permits pretty much going wherever they wanted ,blocking major roads and bridges ,trespassing and disrupting the lawful commerce of business that had absolutely nothing to do with the incidents involved . It was OWS nonsense all over again.

Nice rant Tom, but we have enough factual evidence to prove bad policing policy, and actions that have tragic results, on tape even, and they call reverend Al to bring them to light. Of course you wish he would stop so this practice can be swept under the rug, and covered up, but obviously there are citizens who ain't going for that crap and I find it amazing you defend armed citizens who rally around a farmer who lost in COURT, and dismiss the millions of UNARMED citizens exercising their RIGHTS to protest.

You take the word of those bad cops, "Nothing to see here, move along", and others who don't will demand justice be served and a fair investigation that brings about change.