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A phrase that conjures up the ideal that the police can be trusted. But can they? It seems this is an open question in a more and more clouded environment
How did the riots start, did the police precipitate the situation?
Ferguson: Journalists Ryan J Reilly, Wesley Lowery arrested as 'warrior-cops' stalk streets | News.com.au
How does this fit in with the philosophy of not doing stupid stuff?
This is no surprise that we have fallen off a cliff. The police actively seek out ex military. They have a quick to shoot against the enemy attitude. Combine that with the military hardware and it is just a change of scene for them. The "enemy" attitude exists. They want to kill as that is what they have been trained to do.
What you are not hearing on most of the news is that the officer in question has gotten medical treatment after that event for what clearly resulted in a swollen face. Basically clear evidence he was assulted by the supposed "innocent" person. Funny how a certain element can be seen walking out of a store being looted carrying stuff they clearly didn't buy... and they will be proclaiming innocence and how they had the god given right to steal other peoples stuff.
Also... when was the last time anyone saw the White community rioting like these degenerates, the Asian community, the Hispanic Community?
Not to mention the lefty media is talking about "protestors" ...sorry but they stop being protestors and become rioters the moment they start with the violence. And as rioters they should all be shot, not with rubber bullets or beanbags..shot with live , very real ammunition.
Let's try to separate one incident from another shall we. These incidents escalate as soon as the police show up in force with tactical gear. The use of Swat, etc has escalated alarmingly.
Now you might consider some of your citizens degenerates and you might be right, but you can't prove that without due process and that doesn't come at the end of a gun. The number of looters is usually small and the number of angry people large because the solution is to kill the black guy, rubber bullets do a great job, gives the offender the opportunity to think about it. They could taser the lot of them but that solution hasn't occurred to them, they could use fire hoses and water cannon
WHy taser them.. shoot them. Due process doesn't apply during the riot, or when they are coming out of the store at 3am.
If I lived there and they were smashing MY car or MY house... they would get shot on the spot... THAT is the due process they deserve.
THey should be at home... OFF the streets NOT causeing trouble.
Yes smoothy, your hatred of blacks has been noted repeatedly.
So you claim...
Which shows how little you know... there are blacks and then there are *******. And even the blacks that are respected members of society and respect the laws and peoples property don't even like them. And there are similar elements in every ethnic group....and its no different for them either.
What's the asterisks?Quote:
there are blacks and then there are *******.
There are a number of words that can fit in there I could just as easily put (fill in the blank)... many of them used by the black community themselves about that same element.
Smoothy so are you saying the cops are ALWAYS in the right and the black community are always the racial slur that you used? You do realize that is black and white thinking and nothing in this world is like that. Cops make mistakes, there are bad cops and guess what there are also black cops. How does that fit in with your racism? See you support cops no matter what but have a dislike for blacks... hmmmm that does not seem like it balances out.
What I have discovered is:
There are good cops
There are bad cops
There are good people from every race
There are bad people from every race
People have the right to peacefully protest.
News people have the right to report the news without them being attacked
People have the right to not live in fear of the people who are supposed to protect them
People have the right to not be fearful of their dogs being shot by cops on their property
People have the right to live in their own home as they wish as long as they don't break laws
Lastly for those against protesting. What would North America be like without Martin Luther King protesting? What would the world be like without the civil war fighting against slavery and the underground railroad?
mogrann... I don't know the ethnic mix where you live... but the black majority counties around here are where the MAJORITY of crime takes place... its not where the majority of police issues take place. Same with the Black majority wards of Washington DC (wards are how the city is divided up) All the worst crime is in the black majority wards.
Sorry but I totally dissagree with much of your post... You aren't protesting when you are committing violence... the people in fear of the police are the people that are breaking the law with great regularity... if you have an aggressive dog... expect it to be shot... there is no excuse for having , training or breeding aggressive dogs. Dogs get out, agressive dongs that get out are dangerous to the neighbors. At one time I HAD neighbors that had two pitbulls....they had a fence, they still got out....when two of us threatened to shoot them if they so much as growed at us when they got out they took the dogs and moved.
And we both would have done it too. YOu would not want to get caught breaking into a house where I live....most of my neighbors have guns and wouldn't shoot an intruder to wound them, they would make sure they never got up again. Ilive in a right to carry state where its legal to open carry without a liscense, and they HAVE to issue a concealed carry permit if you have a clean background and apply for one. Not surprising we have a very low crime rate compared to Washington DC and Maryland both despite being so close.
And sorry, no you don't have the right to live in your own home as you wish if you are causeing problems for those around you... sorry, but if you wish to do that... you can move far out in the country when you have no neighbors close enough to bother.
The cop in this case was assaulted by the person that he later shot... he got medical treatment for it... but you aren't seeing that on most of the news... just like the Treyvon martin case.. the media is twisting this around into something that never was... to suit an angenda.
If you actually believe most of what you see on the news is accurate or even correct... you are saddly mistaken... the so called "NEWS" is heavily biased by the editors decision what they want people to hear... and that often is not what actually happened. I've got 30 years of seeing how the news is slanted and twisted in more than one country to assume anything you see is exactly what happened. There is no country on earth where there is a journalists code or law that requires them to tell everything as it really happened. Yes I've had direct access to quite a few events, as in hundreds if not thousands over that time that I have later seen reported incorrectly or completely wrong.
I see you bopught into that revisionist history version of what the Civil war was about... sorry, but that's not what it was really about. I've lived in the "South" long enough to know both sides of what happened there....even though I was born as a "Yankee" my adult life has been well south of the Mason Dixon Line.
Smoothy sees nothing wrong with executing a black guy for walking down the street in his own neighborhood.
When he assulats a cop.. then gets shot while fleeing... which IS the case here then he deserves shot. The liberal media has been twisting this story more and more by the day...
Let's face it smoothy, if this wasn't this fear that everyone has a gun then wouldn't be the need to do so much shooting, you have the right to bare arms or arm barrs, I think you have done the latter
The only people here that fear people legally owning guns are criminals and liberals. And maybe certain members of the Police (but not all of them) and the Government.
I own a bunch of them. And in the entire time I've owned them....they never came to life and hurt anyone.
Though one of them has without a doubt been used to kill an unknown number of people well before the time I was born. Otherwise it somehow managed to make it through the 1920's in Europe and WW2 without being used for its intended purpose.
An 8mm Yugoslav manufactured Mauser.
correction .... they escalate when jerks like al Sharpton show up to throw gasoline on the fire.Quote:
These incidents escalate as soon as the police show up in force with tactical gear. The use of Swat, etc has escalated alarmingly.
Quote:
they escalate when jerks like al Sharpton show up
The Swat people were pretty much out of control before the Reverend of Racism showed up this time. Arresting reporters and elected officials is not normally what is referred to as "under control."
Reporters arrested in Ferguson - POLITICO.com
Alderman, Citizen-Journalist Ordered Out of His Car, Then Arrested by Ferguson Police Because He 'Didn't Listen,' Wife Says | TheBlaze.com
Smoothy I suggest you start educating yourself on cops shooting dogs.. It is not dogs that are "aggressive". It is cops seeing a dog approach them when they are on the dogs property and then shoot first. Many a dog has been shot and killed for no reason.
To also brag on here that you threatened to shoot and kill a dog "pit bull" well that angers me. If the dogs were that aggressive whey did you not call animal control to have a behaviour study done? I think you dislike pit bulls which means you probably dislike Owen as he is a bully breed. I am bitting my tongue right now as I battle against BSL and hatred of pit bulls. I have no gun but if someone shot Owen for growling I would F"n rip your throat out.
Take a look at this page for all of the bad cops that have shot dogs
https://www.facebook.com/Mr.PolicemanDontShootMyDog
So we have gone from shooting people to shooting dogs, just shows how the issues get blurred. I agree with smoothy I would be supicious of all pit bulls, just like certain people they don't back off in the face of authority, but there are alternatives to shooting and police forces can use those alternatives, but then I expect backwoods police forces aren't equipped
mogrann, I'm 53, and have personally known a fair number of cops my entire life many of them I considered friends. A dogs owner is under obligation to restrain their dogs when told... dogs do not have rights that exceed those of Police, firemen or anyone else. THey have the right to do it if a dog even appears to be coming after them... and that is a result of too many officials being bitten by dogs over far too many years. And I have been attacked by a German shepard before many, many years ago... that dog was put down by its owner before the sun ever came up.
Well, I really don't care if that angers you (but its NOT meant to be personal).. the fact that dog was loose unleased is a violation of the law to begin with, a 90+ pound pit bull that growls at people makes it worse... the fact it was on MY property makes it that much worse... that neighbor was an openly hostile person to begin with, and if he entered my house threatening me I'd have shoot him to death too, yes we can do that here too. See I don't live in Canada where nobody really has any rights and everyone has to bow to the criminals and the animals they use to threaten others. Look at the statitics of most of the people who picks that breed above all others... you don't see them with toy poodles for example.
No not all pitbulls are born bad....but if they are raised to be that way....it doesn't matter. I've known two others that were quite docile and friendly....those didn't growl at people.
I've had dogs much of my life... in fact I prefer dogs to cats any day, I like well trained dogs, and it's a very rare case where a dog growls at me so I take it seriously as an act of aggression by it when it does happen. The line is crossed when they fail to keep their dogs in their own yard. Anything that happens when they don't.. is on them. I don't have wait for someone to get mauled, on my property all I had to feel was threatened. Neither would the other neighbor who threatened the same thing... he had a wife, two children and another smaller dog. And I had a wife... not to mention we OWN our property. In many areas an aggressive animal can be put down the first time it happens, and the rest it will be done on the second. Doesn't matter if they were trained to be aggressive or were that was naturally... an aggressive animal that size remains a threat to others. A Yorkshire terrier might run up and bite you but its not the same threat a 90+ lbs dog bred to fight is.
Both of their pit bulls growled at the other neighbors on or off the leash. And incidentally... the local police said we would be well within out rights to do it under those circumstances, when they were on our property, Yes we asked, nobody was even thinking of going to do it on their property.
They moved away after being there only about 6 months before anything came to a head. Everyone in our Cul-de-sac were quite happy they did.
Also sorry but I am not a peta member... Humans are higher on the evolutionary tree than dogs... they don't share human rights. And before you go there... I don't kick puppies or any other animal... I do like to hunt when I get the chance which is not often enough... and I don't trophy hunt.. I eat what I shoot or I won't hunt it. I probibly have more wildlife living in my yard than most people with far larger properties in rural areas... and I'm in the middle of the city.
Smoothy, now that you've addressed your personal issues, please address Mogran's. Did you notice the phrase "on their own property," which means the cop was trespassing. I refer specifically to the Weimeraner shot in its own back yard behind a six foot fence.
Investigation underway into why officer shot dog in its own yard | Deseret News
And that's only one example:
Gunned Down: Why Are So Many Dogs Shot by Police?
Every time I see one of these stories, which happens almost weekly, one thought runs through my mind: Cowards shouldn't be Cops.
Edit: That thought leads me back to the OP. Police training has borrowed way too much from the military. Soldiers kill people and break things. Cops are supposed to do the opposite. They've stopped doing that.
No one has all of the facts of the situation, but as usual, the media hype stirs the frenzy, the mob mentality takes over for some, and once again division is at the forefront.
Yes, there are some bad cops, but the vast majority serve their communities well, sadly there are some people in society who will take advantage of a situation and this can result in stereotyping, and yes there are some who will perpetuate the problem to their own advantage and agenda... we see this when certain individuals show up or speak out but remain unheard from in regard to injustices and horrific crimes that occur on a daily basis in some neighborhoods.
If it turns out that it is proven that the police officer is guilty, then he should pay the price. However, guilty or not does not justify the actions taken by many ( of which it has been suggested that the majority are not even from there) in destroying the neighborhood. A peaceful protest is one thing, and there are those who have been doing so, but burning, looting, and destroying businesses of innocent people are uncalled for in any scenario. Of course once again the media focus is more on that because that is what stirs emotion.
These days, cops have such a bad reputation that even middle class and wealthy white people don't trust them. In Canada, there have been plenty of cases of police brutality, so the U.S. is not the only country with bad cops. There are basically 3 types of people who become cops, 1. people who come from a cop family. 2. People who got bad marks in high school and have no other career options. 3. Bullies who want a job where they can push people around and abuse authority. One guy in my class became a cop and he was the number 2 type. Barely passed his courses in high school and had no sports or activities outside of school other than working at McDonald's and flunked out of college after one term.
Think you are sterotyping there earl
Yes, Clete, that was a stereotype. A bad one.Quote:
There are basically 3 types of people who become cops, 1. people who come from a cop family. 2. People who got bad marks in high school and have no other career options. 3. Bullies who want a job where they can push people around and abuse authority
My son is a cop. Doesn't fit in any of those categories. I know a plethora of cops through my work at the hospital. None of them fit into those categories.
The trouble with the stereotypes is that police dept. administrations are the ones perpetuating them. Note the SWAT uniforms. That's USMC MARPAT camouflage. Not only is it totally inappropriate for the job, it provides the visual of "wannabe army men" so prevalent in the stereotype. Why would any procurement office get that if it wasn't to perpetuate the stereotype?
Attachment 46469
And my response just diappeared what is going on? I will, say it again, whether you like it or not those who are disadvantaged and black need to respond with respect, not riots and disorder. There is no point in what has been done here, it doesn't help, in fact it is unhelpful
Not all the protestors are disadvantaged black, or poor, and the disruptive violent ones are young criminals, few in number. Stereotypes aside, does it rise to the indiscriminate use of military tactics with military weapons? Poorly trained I might add. I don't think so. Lets not forget the cause of this was the POLICE action of executing a shoplifter in broad daylight in the first place.
He wasn't a shoplifter when he was confronted, just a jaywalker. So while we criticize the outrage, lets not forget the outrageous act that ignited this firestorm.
@cat.....the gear was used since officers have had various projectiles hurled at them and needed to be prepared for just about anything. Better to have your officers over protected than to underestimate a situation and put them in more potential danger.
@clete....add to what you said, the behavior fans the flames of discord even more, along with when Sharpton and Jackson show up and/or speak out when there is a publicized incident.
I've wondered why they aren't seen or heard from regarding the plethora of incidents that do not involve different races, but I have a feeling it's because their words wouldn't carry much weight in those situations, and they know it. Along with the fact that when it involves two races, their words perpetuate the strong emotions and division that the media thrive on.
It was good to hear and see that some protesters and citizens blocked entrance to shops that rioters were trying to damage even more and steal from. Unfortunately those brave and respectable actions naturally didn't get much airtime from media outlets.
Tal... again, no one knows all the circumstances yet. From first impressions, anger... sure. Wanting to speak out about it and protest... rightfully so. But none of that justifies destroying businesses and stealing. Not the majority of protesters turned rioters, but once again the media pictures will prevail.
@Doula. Yes the media brings us current images that are disturbing in so many ways, but this is but the tip of the iceberg in what has probably been going on for a longer time before the cameras got their.
Doula, you missed my point. The riot gear was appropriate, the UNIFORMS are the problem. Police don't wear camouflage, paramilitaries do. THAT'S the stereotype they're feeding.
A fifty caliber rifle perched above a anti mine vehicle seems a bit much for a small town street of unarmed citizens too.
Ah, I see Cat... yes, to you and tal, I agree... they have been called out on the excess. Wise decision to remain on the sidelines since, to step in if necessary... although now some business owners are concerned that there is not enough interaction.
First... a cop is legally entitled to shoot any animal that they determine to be a threat at the time... inside or outside the house. Good luck proving that THEY didn't really decide that at the moment. The dogs shot aren't usually blind 14 year old Basset hounds with arthitis that can barely move.Quote:
Smoothy, now that you've addressed your personal issues, please address Mogran's. Did you notice the phrase "on their own property," which means the cop was trespassing. I refer specifically to the Weimeraner shot in its own back yard behind a six foot fence.
Investigation underway into why officer shot dog in its own yard | Deseret News
And that's only one example:
Gunned Down: Why Are So Many Dogs Shot by Police?
Every time I see one of these stories, which happens almost weekly, one thought runs through my mind: Cowards shouldn't be Cops.
Edit: That thought leads me back to the OP. Police training has borrowed way too much from the military. Soldiers kill people and break things. Cops are supposed to do the opposite. They've stopped doing that.
Good luck trying to pull a Tresspassing claim OUTSIDE a house (I think that would be barking up the wrong tree, pun intended). Police only need a warrant to ENTER a house... not to look in the windows or step onto the property. And incidentally, because dogs are not Humans they have no proerty rights... meaning they don't OWN or RENT the property.. they only live on it.
If the neighbor kid climbs a fence to take a shortcut and gets attacked... guess who will be held responsible and liable for it? Not the kid.
I'm not defending the cops having automatic weapons, and Armoured personnel carriers... thats a totally separate issue than what I addressed.
Tal, what is going on and the media images you are seeing is part of the Obama plan. He wanted a civilian army just as powerful as our current military. Now that it is coming to fruition then there is a need to use all this hardware they have been given even if it is over reaching in its extent.
There is absolutly no need for them to come to the party like that unless it is to match an existing threat. If normal citizens are a presumed threat then they are in for a huge wake up call.
Cdad, I think that practice started in the 70's under Nixon .
That's my point. They are mistaken in that determination too often, and are almost never held responsible for their mistakes. It's a hiring and training issue. Police have been trained the last decade or so that every encounter is a threat, not a potential one but an actual threat. They respond to that threat by immediately escalating to deadly force, then get a one to three week paid vacation while Public Affairs figures out a way to say that they reacted according to their training. The public perceives this as cover-up and is more suspicious of encounters with police. The police, meanwhile, develop an attitude of irresponsibility and unaccountability (trickle down attitude, anyone?) that feeds that public perception and the vicious circle gets angrier and angrier.Quote:
a cop is legally entitled to shoot any animal that they determine to be a threat at the time
That's how we get riots when a cop shoots a suspect.
@parttime, I disagree. Were there swat teams forming back then yes. But nothing like the free giveaway of military hardware to LEO's across the country like there has been given away by homeland security. Before it was up to local departments to finance and they witheld the use to extreme cases. Not as in todays time where just serving a warrant justifies the use of a military assault.
They have prepared themselves for the jihad to come, since the populace is allowed to own any weapon, the police must out gun them. You might not have muslim problems but you certainly have extreme right wing groups
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