What is the REAL reason for the Federal Bureau of Land Management(BLM) for sending over 200 armed personnel (some armed with sniper weapons ) ,and helicopters to surround the land that the Bundy family has had grazing rights on since 1870 ? No it has nothing to do with the 'endangered ' desert tortoise (although that is their latest rationale ) . Heck just last year they were willing to exterminate some of the critters.

Here is a hint. The land in dispute is in Nevada . That means that Sen Harry Reid has got to have his corrupt dirty paws in there somehow. You see , Reid took a junket to China and became enamored with the operations of a Chinese energy company called ENN Energy Holdings and decided it would be a great idea if he could bring this company to Nevada to create a $5 billion solar farm and manufacturing facility . His son Rory Reid is the lawyer representing ENN's interest in this project .
And where would this project be located ? Yes ,on the very land that Rancher Cliven Bundy (and 50+ other ranchers who have already been evicted ) has used for multiple generations .
U.S. Senator Reid, son combine for China firm's desert plant | Reuters


The tortoise wasn’t of concern when Reid worked with BLM to literally change the boundaries of the tortoise’s habitat to accommodate the development of his top donor, Harvey Whittemore ;and it is not a concern in this case either .If anything ,concern for the tortoise would prevent the construction of a massive solar farm on the site (solar panels have a way of frying critters) . The restrictions for the tortoise were waved for the solar project ;and the land is to be sold to ENN for 1/8 it's market value.
The head of BLM is Neil Kornze ,who by no coincidence served on Reid's Senate staff until he was appointed to BLM
Neil Kornze, Principal Deputy Director, Bureau of Land Management

You will also hear that the reason they are evicting him is that he has not paid his lease fees for years . That is true. It is also true that paying the fees did not protect the other ranchers already evicted . Bundy paid lease fees to Clark County, Nevada in an arrangement pre-dating the BLM. The BLM arrived much later, changed the details of the setup without consulting anyone ; and then began driving out cattle and ranchers. Bundy refused to pay BLM, especially after they demanded he reduce his herd’s head count . Bundy OWNS the water and forage rights to this land. He paid for these rights. He built fences, established water ways, and constructed roads with his own money, with the approval of Nevada and BLM. When BLM started increasing his fees to run him off the land and harass him, he ceased paying.

There is now a standoff . The Feds have already taken down one of Bundy's sons (with dogs) for daring to video them . The other son was tasered. They have taken down cell phone service in the area and has declared the whole area a no-fly zone. They have hired local cowboys to round up Bundy's cattle .

Local ranchers have gathered in a show of support ,and local militias are converging on the site.
It could get messy ....another Ruby Ridge ? another Waco ? .

The problem is that Bundy is not a big Reid donor.

What is going on there is just the tip of the iceberg as far as many people are concerned with this governments over reaching into peoples lives and the outright greed. If they werent planning this then why have the bought so much ammo recently beyond what what used in the wars of Afghanastan and Iraq. This administration is looking to push buttons. Its part of what has been going on since the anointed one took office. This nation has never been so divided.

The desert tortiose has been on many lists to justify the closing and use of lands. They used that same excuse for closing down the baja 500. My fear is that this may have a ripple effect that forces its way through and pushs things over the end and we will lose this country. Their concern isnt for the cattle as they are killing the cattle off by running them till they die. Its very sad.

Could this be the next step in the tinfoil hat crowd's Martial Law scenario? The one where the 2016 elections don't ever happen?

sounds like a good ole fashioned range war to me, the ranchers verses the new commers and with help from vigilantes and gunslingers they may turn this into a shootin war. I fail to understand the way things work over there, what ever happened to making a fair offer

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Originally Posted by Catsmine

Could this be the next step in the tinfoil hat crowd's Martial Law scenario? The one where the 2016 elections don't ever happen?

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Why is it tinfoil hat theory when it could happen ? You might have said the same if a few weeks back I said a 777 would disappear and nobody would find it. There are things that are happening right in front of our eyes and everyone should be paying attention to those things so it doesnt get out of hand.

That's exactly the argument that land owners and ranchers are making about the building of the keystone pipeline. However I noticed that this has gone through courts and fines are outstanding so as politically charged as the issue is, executing a lawful court order after decades of litigation on FEDERAL lands seems to be a valid next step process.

19 years later, Cliven Bundy ordered to remove trespass cattle or face seizure by BLM | The Wildlife News

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/wp-co...ndy-7-9-13.pdf

putting a pipeline through farmlands that in no way disrupts the farmer's ability to earn a living is much different than the Feds evicting ranchers off Federal lands to accommodate the desires and wealth of the Reid family .

it is comical that the Feds use the 'trespass ' canard when they refusing to enforce laws to prevent millions illegals from marching across Federal lands and private property .

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Their concern isnt for the cattle as they are killing the cattle off by running them till they die

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This is true . Many of the cattle have died . No outrage by the animal rights crowd there.

Deportations are at all time highs, so don't deflect the issue, since you always make this about the government while this rancher hasn't paid his fees in decades, and still hasn't since he lost in court, but then you turn around and say its okay for companies to use private lands to make money even if the farmer doesn't want it.

So he enriches himself on government land for free, FOR 21 YEARS? I would like to not pay fees, and rising cost of those fees for gas and food.

Sorry for the brief hijack..........

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Deportations are at all time highs

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I always question the claims that you see in the media... any media source. Numbers are too often skewed, as we all know, to serve the purpose of those reporting them, and the public is not always given the full picture.

Here's this from a well-known, non-partisan organization: Deportation Numbers Unwrapped | Center for Immigration Studies

Thanks Doulal C .I was about to post the same link. Tal ,you want a private business to be evicted to make room for a major corporation. The tortoise canard has already been debunked since they have waived the rules for other Reid supporters ,and would also waive the rule on the same land that Bundy uses if the solar farm is built there ;as they have done for other solar projects in the state (all it takes is a variance) .
Bureau of Land Management Solar Plan Guides Energy Development to Lower Conflict Areas, Challenges Remain | Defenders of Wildlife

I have already addressed the nonsense about him not paying his lease fees. Let me ask you since you insist on comparing this to the Keystone pipeline . Will ANY landowner be forced off their land if the pipeline goes through their property ? NO .

For years Bundy paid his fees directly to Clark County, Nevada. The BLM imposed themselves on the arrangement claiming that they would help the ranchers in the area manage the land with the fees.They changed the terms without consulting with Bundy and the other ranchers . They then systematically used the fees to force the ranchers off the lands. Bundy is the last holdout . It did not help his neighbors one bit to pay the fees . They were still forced off the lands that their families had worked for generations .

btw ....my position on Federal lands is as follows .... The Federal Government owns WAY too much land in this country . 84 % of the land mass of Nevada is Federally owned.

Possibly some hope for a peaceful ending:

BREAKING NEWS: BLM ends roundup of Bundy cattle - 8 News NOW

what part of breach of contract isn't understood here, the rancher doesn't have a right to graze his cattle if he doesn't pay his fees, on the other issue, owing property doesn't mean you own the air above it or the space beneath it but the idea that if you are a rancher it is all yours has grown up

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Originally Posted by Catsmine

Possibly some hope for a peaceful ending:

BREAKING NEWS: BLM ends roundup of Bundy cattle - 8 News NOW

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They are saying they are backing down to seek other methods. If you examine the tactics they were using it is what we here in America have been pointing the finger at in other countries.

I guess Reid doesnt need this kind of press so close to election time.

Clete ,the Feds were trying to manage his ranch out of business. That is the issue of the dispute. It's the same cr@p they are doing in the Central Valley in California to the farmers there .There was an agreement that Bundy would pay fees as long as the land was irrigated. The government did not irrigate the land so he invested in an irrigation system for the land while ending payments. It was the BLM that reneged because it was their intent to drive ranchers off the land.

btw see chart on page 4 of this ...
https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42346.pdf

81% of the land in the State of Nevada is Federally owned. That is an obscenity . The Federal Government owns close to 30% of all the land in the US (mostly in the Western States ) .

It certainly isn't about a tortoise, they're perfectly fine with whacking bald Eagles. In fact, if it wasn't mentioned before they said it was too expensive to run a preserve for that very tortoise so they closed it and euthanized the animals. But they can spend a million bucks or so to send in a militia to harass a rancher and steal his cattle.

P.S. According to SPLC it's all part of the Koch conspiracy.

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2014/0...deral-faceoff/

You think government is obscene any way, but Bundy in particular has used public lands to enrich himself for decades, but that's NOT obscene? He won't go out of business either, and hasn't, like you say about those ranchers in the heartland and the pipeline from Canada moving oil that most Americans will NEVER use.

True capitalist. Don't pay lease or rent and make MO'MONEY by cheating TAXPAYERS! We both know for all the stink and hollering he will quietly obey the court order and pay up. Just like Canada will eventually cut a deal that allows them to get their pipeline when they make those ranchers happy.

Now that Bundy has gained national attention ,I'm sure there are plenty of lawyers willing to fight his case in court.

He has been to court, and LOST! I guess he can afford to go back, or appeal or whatever tools (MONEY) rich guys have to make MO'MONEY for free. Or mitigate his losses(?) even more. They government has agreed to split the profits from the sale of his access cattle.

Your guy is a rich squatter

Visit Nevada Indian Territory, one of the last major frontiers to be settled by Euro-Americans

At the western edge of the Great Basin lies a vast stretch of high mountain desert with sage covered hillsides, towering rock precipices and majestic mountain ranges. Indian Territory, Nevada, is home to three major Native American tribes: the Washoe, Paiute and Western Shoshone. For thousands of years their ancestors were the stewards of this land. Indian Territory was one of the last major frontiers to be explored and settled by Euro-Americans. This land offered native people the ability to sustain ethnic identity longer than other parts of the country. Even through past tribulations, they have remained strong. The Washoe, Paiute and Western Shoshone tribes still comprise a culturally rich and distinctive ethnic group. Today, the tribes focus their efforts on political and economic change. Tribal members look to the future with hope for a prosperous and environmentally aware society that understands the value of cultural diversity.

Its no wonder you can just give part of the story and ignore the resources involved which is oil, and water.

yeah they need the water to divert to projects of friends of Harry. It's unbelievable that you are using the 'rich guy card ' in this situation . You really think the BLM is working in the interest of conservation here ? Dude ! Why do you think they backed off once the Reid connection was revealed ? Could it be that Reid doesn't want the negative press in an election year that already showed him to be ripe with nepotism and corruption ?
As I already pointed out .. the head of BLM is a former Reid staffer . Coincidence ? I think not .

Thars oil in them thar hills, and they will get it, along with the water for further land development!! Ain't no varmits or land grubbin' cowboys gonna to stop it either. I can get with defending your land, but it's not his land, and he ain't paid for it's use in 20 years.

And he lost in court.

look at how quickly the Feds can build a fence when they are using them against American citizens .


Attachment 45927
Man the Barrycades !

Difference between a fence and a wall Tom, that looks like a few panels of stock fence left over from the roundup, looks like the muster of humans was successful

If that's all it took to accommodate a peaceful, non violent protest, and the law to do its work, the fence is a good thing.

yeah it is called a "free speech zone " (sarcasm font engaged )

That's all you got left, revel in it, you don't have eminent domain any more

You would rather have a 2nd amendment solution being implemented? Both sides are armed.

One is a rancher protecting his family business. The other is the Federal Government working on behalf of the Reid family fortune trying to destroy the rancher's family business.
Did the Feds back down once the Reid connection was established ? Yes.

The head of the BLM is Neil Kornze, formerly Senior Policy Advisor to Harry Reid and a major figure in the Western Solar Plan. He became BLM head March 1, 2013 after recommendation and strong urging by Harry Reid.(all this is on the BLM website) The corruption in this case goes all the way down to the county commissioners and sheriff. Hasn't been on the news yet, but Saturday, agents of the U.S. Forest Service knocked on the door of a southwest New Mexico ranch and ordered the owners to remove their possessions and livestock as the ranch now belonged to the Forest Service. Land grab is easy in cases like this... keep increasing the rules, regulations, and restrictions until the people using the land(for generations and generations) can no longer possibly adhere to them. Then, under the law, confiscate(steal)the land for political cronyism. Ranchers and farmers tend to be conservative in their viewpoints, thus being the opposition in the eyes of the current administration who believes in paybacks. Al Sharpton,the race hustler with the imaginary seminary degree,still owes 2.5 million dollars to the IRS... no agents have shown up at his place confiscating possessions.

They haven't back down from enforcement of a lawful court order. That's still being pursued. Their approached has changed to stem the violence, as the local law enforcement has been talking with the Bundy for a more reasonable solution. Like mitigating his liability from non payments and fees through the sale of cattle they rounded up ON FEDERAL LAND.

Sorry you may miss your shoot out at the Bundy Corral.

News now is Harry Reid and the Chinese have been in cahoots for 2 years for Bundy's property. It seems Harry is interested in having a solar project on that property and the underground of Bundy's ranch is also rich with water, gas and oil…fracking companies are calling him too.
Bundy owns his land and pays for his own repairs, but the government has found an excuse to strong arm him into leaving and are exercising their bully power by insisting on a show of force with the use of hundreds of costumed brown shirts, snipers, vans, and even the setting up of little fenced off areas with signs that say first amendment area. You are allowed to exercise your 1st amendment rights only if you are penned up in these designated areas.
His son was even beaten and thrown in jail because he dared film outside of the gestapo designated pens. When Cliven tried to call 911 to find out where his son was they told him if he didn't get off the phone he would be arrested and anybody from that day forward who called 911 was told the same thing. So, they pay taxes for police but are threatened with jail if they use 911 because the feds are trying to show that they're the bosses. And the governor? The sheriff? Someone? Crickets.
All so that they can take his 900 cattle away.


Excerpt from

Cliven Bundy's Daughter, Shiree Bundy Cox, Explains Why the BLM Came for Her Father |

The round up continues peacefully and safely.

there is no round up . The BLM is returning the cattle they seized.
BLM releases cattle to Bundy - 8 News NOW

Now all they have to do is confiscate him for the calves that died when separated from their mom.

I think the Feds must be looking for cousin Ted... they didn't get the memo he was executed on January 24, 1989. Apparently he's been voting for Harry Reid for many years.

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However, according to the BLM, the deal does not absolve Bundy from any of the fees he owes for having the animals there in the first place........
In its statement, the BLM said its actions this past week were progress in enforcing two court orders to remove the trespassing cattle from public land........The agency director also asked that everyone involved in the dispute remain peaceful and law-abiding.

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I left out the spin about AMERICAS cattle. Like I said, the process will continue peacefully(?). Its been more than two decades so what's the hurry?

"Land, because of its unique nature and the crucial role it plays in human settlements cannot be treated as an ordinary asset, controlled by individuals and subject to the pressures and inefficiencies of the market,"

Private land ownership is also a principal instrument of accumulation and concentration of wealth and therefore contributes to social injustice; if unchecked, it may become a major obstacle in the planning and implementation of development schemes."

UN Agenda 21(The Vancouver Action Plan. D. Land )
The Vancouver Action Plan. D. Land - A/CONF.70/15 Chapter II - UN Documents: Gathering a body of global agreements

sounds like aland grab to me