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-   -   150th anniversary of the Gettysburg address (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=775756)

  • Nov 19, 2013, 08:16 AM
    speechlesstx
    150th anniversary of the Gettysburg address
    Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

    Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that this nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

    But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate, we can not consecrate, we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 08:40 AM
    NeedKarma
    <yawn>
  • Nov 19, 2013, 08:42 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    <yawn>

    If it doesn't interest you why not just stay the hell away?
  • Nov 19, 2013, 08:43 AM
    NeedKarma
    'Cause I wanted you to know that differing opinions exist.
    Plus it gets you swearing and frothing at the mouth. LOL.
    Not everyone cares about the cesspool that is the US.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 08:46 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    'Cause I wanted you to know that differing opinions exist.
    Plus it gets you swearing and frothing at the mouth. LOL.
    Not everyone cares about the cesspool that is the US.

    Then by all means if it doesn't interest you do what normal, decent people do and ignore it for something that does. Or go watch videos of Rob Ford.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 08:46 AM
    Wondergirl
    I had to memorize that back in the day (grade school?).
  • Nov 19, 2013, 08:47 AM
    NeedKarma
    Nah, I'll hang around. It's fun.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 08:55 AM
    tomder55
    A new birth of freedom . One has to wonder why the President is not attending . He has nothing else more important on his agenda ,and it would seem that the symbolism would be too tempting to ignore. According to Salena Zito of the Pittsburg Tribune Review ,may Americans are upset and dismayed that he declined the invitation.
    Quote:

    According to the National Park Service, Obama has never visited the battlefield as president.

    In 2008, Obama rolled out his presidential campaign in Springfield, Ill. where Lincoln announced his own presidential candidacy. Throughout that year's campaign, Obama's staff embraced similarities between the two men as part of his persona; he allowed them to encourage lofty comparisons — and, after he won the election, he re-created Lincoln's 1861 train trip to Washington as part of his own inaugural spectacle.

    He even took the oath of office on Lincoln's Bible — twice.

    Lincoln brought the country to a revival at an unlikely time with his address. He gave new meaning to the definition of sacrifice in service to the country, for the purpose of preserving the country.

    Lincoln was asked to speak here only as an afterthought. The request for Obama to speak has been sought for more than a year.

    It would be an occasion for him to honor a crucial time in our past, to create a historical bridge to today.

    His dismissal of the request shows a man so detached from the duty of history, from the men who served in the White House before him, that it is unspeakable in its audacity.

    Ask almost any person in this historic town; even his most ardent supporters here are stunned.

    Obama long ago veered away from any affinity he may have believed he had with Lincoln, which gives credibility to the criticism that his connection to Lincoln was always a political calculation rather than a true bond.
    Obama&apos;s stunning snub | TribLIVE
  • Nov 19, 2013, 09:14 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    A new birth of freedom .

    Some obviously aren't impressed with celebrating liberty and honoring those who sacrificed for it.


    Quote:

    One has to wonder why the President is not attending . He has nothing else more important on his agenda ,and it would seem that the symbolism would be too tempting to ignore. According to Salena Zito of the Pittsburg Tribune Review ,may Americans are upset and dismayed that he declined the invitation.


    Obama&apos;s stunning snub | TribLIVE
    And some are impressed only with themselves.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 10:00 AM
    tomder55
    I also have to say that a different President ignored the 100th anniversary of the Gettysburg Address ;and went to Dallas instead.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 10:01 AM
    tomder55
    And what is keeping VP Biden from attending ? He's a native of Pa.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 10:33 AM
    joypulv
    The last prez to go was R B Hayes.
    I imagine going is touchy. I can think of lots of reasons for not going, but don't feel like saying what they are, and who knows what Obama's reasons are. I doubt that one is snobbery.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 10:54 AM
    tomder55
    Makes sense Hayes would go . He was a Union officer in the Civil War (wounded 5 times) . I think it's strange the emperor did not attend ,and no ,his attendance would not have been touchy at all .
  • Nov 19, 2013, 12:25 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by joypulv View Post
    The last prez to go was R B Hayes.
    I imagine going is touchy. I can think of lots of reasons for not going, but don't feel like saying what they are, and who knows what Obama's reasons are. I doubt that one is snobbery.

    I believe others have been since Hayes...

    Quote:

    There are differing counts of how many of the 28 presidents after Lincoln traveled to Gettysburg. CNN reports that 24 have gone. The Gettysburg Times reports that every 20th-century president made the pilgrimage except for Bill Clinton. Woodrow Wilson spoke at the 50th anniversary in 1913. Franklin D. Roosevelt spoke at the 75th in 1938. Dwight Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, and Lyndon Johnson all took separate trips there in the 100th-anniversary year of 1963. But not all went willingly, and all tried to avoid speech comparisons with Lincoln.
    That shouldn't be a problem for the guy who gave us "we are the ones we've been waiting for."

    I guess they'll have to keep waiting.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 12:42 PM
    tomder55
    If I"m not mistaken ,those Wilson and FDR attended the anniverary of the battle and not the address. The 50th was a biggy because there was a reenactment of Pickett's charge by the Vets. When they met at the "high water mark " North and South shook hands.
    GETTYSBURG Reunion - YouTube
  • Nov 19, 2013, 12:43 PM
    joypulv
    Probably some weren't actually prez at the time (LBJ) or the speech was at a different event, such as FDR's speech 2 days after 'Reunion Day' and so on. The site I quoted from used the term 'sitting president.' Interesting that there would be so much disparity among sites.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 12:50 PM
    talaniman
    150 years after that address we are still fighting for what many died for. Many of us feel the civil war isn't over, just changing its forms.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 12:54 PM
    speechlesstx
    1 Attachment(s)
    Well we all know who isn't there now. He's too busy according to one of his advisers, gonna to be fixin' that website before addressing the Wall Street Journal CEO Council.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 12:59 PM
    NeedKarma
    Then he certainly does have more pressing matters.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 01:07 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    150 years after that address we are still fighting for what many died for. Many of us feel the civil war isn't over, just changing its forms.

    Only in your moral relativist world would that be true.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 01:28 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    Then he certainly does have more pressing matters.

    Like Obama is actually fixing the website.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 01:29 PM
    paraclete
    Can we get a perspective here, you expect a democrat president to celebrate a republican victory, and you get your knickers in a knot if he doesn't. It was an important historical event to you, commemorated by Lincoln because of the shocking cost, but it was not an end, the war gound on, that last full measure had to be played out, and were the lessons learned, not easily.

    The very fact is it is 150 years and in that intervening time there have been many battles and the commemoration of all of them is a Herculean task. Celebrate peace, not war
  • Nov 19, 2013, 02:31 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    Can we get a perspective here, you expect a democrat president to celebrate a republican victory, and you get your knickers in a knot if he doesn't. It was an important historical event to you, commemorated by Lincoln because of the shocking cost, but it was not an end, the war gound on, that last full measure had to be played out, and were the lessons learned, not easily.

    The very fact is it is 150 years and in that intervening time there have been many battles and the commemoration of all of them is a Herculean task. Celebrate peace, not war

    The words have a lasting meaning.

    Quote:

    It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 02:47 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    The words have a lasting meaning.

    No doubt they do speech, It was a very stirring speech but government of the people for the people by the people is not in any danger of perishing from the Earth even if it has taken a few knocks. Should he commemorate Picket's Charge? Or is it you want him to commemorate Lincoln's address by delivering it again?
  • Nov 19, 2013, 02:51 PM
    tomder55
    The emperor did recite the address for a Ken Burns special. Just one problem . He forgot to include the words " under God "..
    WATCH: Barack Obama Removes UNDER GOD From Gettysburg Address - YouTube
  • Nov 19, 2013, 03:00 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    No doubt they do speech, It was a very stirring speech but government of the people for the people by the people is not in any danger of perishing from the Earth even if it has taken a few knocks. Should he commemorate Picket's Charge? or is it you want him to commemorate Lincoln's address by delivering it again?

    It was and is... The address was happening at about the same time as Bismarck Europe and government of the people ,by the people ,for the people was a foreign a concept as ever in Europe at the time. For Lincoln ,democracy was a lone island in the Americas surrounded by monarchies and tyrants .The 19th century revolutions in Europe were beat down or disintegrated into dictatorship.
    “When you have governed men for several years, you will become a Monarchist,”... “Believe me, one cannot lead or bring to prosperity a great nation without the principle of authority—that is, the Monarchy.”(Otto von Bismarck). Lincoln reminded us in that address that Europe's fate could be ours. It is a timeless lesson in my book.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 03:01 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    No doubt they do speech, It was a very stirring speech but government of the people for the people by the people is not in any danger of perishing from the Earth even if it has taken a few knocks. Should he commemorate Picket's Charge? Or is it you want him to commemorate Lincoln's address by delivering it again?

    One might think the guy whose ratings have just plummeted and likens himself to Honest Abe might have taken the opportunity to seize the moment on this occasion.

    Quote:

    His decision is doubly surprising because he has so tied himself to his fellow Illinoisan Lincoln. Obama announced his candidacy in 2007 near Lincoln’s law office in Springfield, Ill. Both in 2009 and 2013, he took the oath of office with his hand on Lincoln’s Bible. And in 2009, he replicated Lincoln’s 1861 route from Philadelphia to Washington for the Inauguration.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 03:07 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    One might think the guy whose ratings have just plummeted and likens himself to Honest Abe might have taken the opportunity to seize the moment on this occasion.

    Perhaps he reflected that he shouldn't follow Lincoln too closely lest he suffer the same fate.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 03:16 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    Perhaps he reflected that he shouldn't follow Lincoln too closely lest he suffer the same fate.

    Doesn't work... Kennedy avoided the 100th anniversary of the address by going to Dallas.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 03:27 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    doesn't work .... Kennedy avoided the 100th anniversary of the address by going to Dallas.

    Touché.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 03:34 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    doesn't work .... Kennedy avoided the 100th anniversary of the address by going to Dallas.

    Yes he that would save his life will lose it.

    BO may have decided that discretion is the better part of valor, or it may just be that because of his rootes, the event is not of significance and carries no political capital for him, now had it been last year, but then, I'm being cynical
  • Nov 19, 2013, 05:13 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    the event is not of significance and carries no political capital for him, now had it been last year, but then, I'm being cynical
    When he was inaugurated he took a duplicate train ride from Illinois to DC that Lincoln took. He was sworn in twice using Lincoln's personal bible. He has encouraged the comparison between Lincoln and himself before and during his reign. The 'new birth of freedom' theme would've been a natural for his TOTUS . Gettysburg is a short Marine One helicopter ride from DC as the crow flies . He has no excuse. There was nothing on his agenda today that was more pressing.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 05:47 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    When he was inaugurated he took a duplicate train ride from Illinois to DC that Lincoln took. He was sworn in twice using Lincoln's personal bible. He has encouraged the comparison between Lincoln and himself before and during his reign. The 'new birth of freedom' theme would've been a natural for his TOTUS . Gettysburg is a short Marine One helicopter ride from DC as the crow flies . He has no excuse. There was nothing on his agenda today that was more pressing.

    65 miles. In Texas that's a short drive people make every day.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 06:24 PM
    tomder55
    It's less than my round trip commute.
  • Nov 19, 2013, 06:49 PM
    paraclete
    Perhaps he is busy sorting out Iran, perhaps he wants another Noble prize, international affairs count more than domestic and he might be looking for a job in a couple of years. He seems very single minded, can't spit and chew gum at the same time
  • Nov 20, 2013, 04:42 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    perhaps he is busy sorting out Iran, perhaps he wants another Noble prize, international affairs count more than domestic and he might be looking for a job in a couple of years. He seems very single minded, can't spit and chew gum at the same time

    Perhaps he wants to change the subject.
  • Nov 20, 2013, 06:25 AM
    speechlesstx
    Priceless

    Quote:

    Bret Stephens: From 'Four Score' to 'Yes We Can!' - WSJ.com

    Nov. 18, 2013 7:28 p.m. ET

    Seven score and 10 years ago, Abraham Lincoln delivered his sacred speech on the meaning of free government. Edward Everett, a former secretary of state and the principal speaker for the consecration of the Gettysburg cemetery, instantly recognized the power of the president's 272 words."

    I should be glad, if I could flatter myself," Everett wrote to Lincoln the next day, "that I came as near to the central idea of the occasion, in two hours, as you did in two minutes."

    Barack Obama is not scheduled to be present at Gettysburg on Tuesday to commemorate the 150th anniversary of the address. Maybe he figured that the world would little note, nor long remember, what he said there. Maybe he thought the comparisons with the original were bound to be invidious, and rightly so.

    If that's the case, it would be the beginning of wisdom for this presidency. Better late than never.Mr. Obama's political career has always and naturally inspired thoughts about the 16th president: the lawyer from Illinois, blazing a sudden trail from obscurity to eminence; the first black president, redeeming the deep promise of the new birth of freedom. The associations create a reservoir of pride in the 44th president even among his political opponents.

    But, then, has there ever been a president who so completely over-salted his own brand as Barack Obama? "I never compare myself to Lincoln," the president told NBC's David Gregory last year. Except that he announced his presidential candidacy from the Old State Capitol building in Springfield, Ill. And that he traveled by train to Washington from Philadelphia for his first inauguration along the same route Lincoln took in the spring of 1861. And that he twice swore his oaths of office on the Lincoln Bible. "Lincoln—they used to talk about him almost as bad as they talk about me," he said in Iowa in 2011.

    No, this has not been a president who has ever shied away from grandiose historical comparisons. If George W. Bush reveled in being misunderestimated, Mr. Obama aims to be selfhyperadulated. "I would put our legislative and foreign policy accomplishments in our first two years against any president—with the possible exceptions of Johnson, FDR, and Lincoln," the president told "60 Minutes" in 2011. Note the word possible.

    But now that has started to change. The president has been humbled; he's pleading incompetence against charges of dishonesty; the media, mainstream as well as alternative, smell blood in the water.

    And his problems on that score are just beginning: ObamaCare is really a political self-punching machine, slugging itself with every botched rollout, missed deadline, postponed mandate, higher deductible, canceled insurance policy and jury-rigged administrative fix. John Roberts, we hardly knew you: Your ObamaCare swing vote last year may yet turn out to be best gift Republicans have had in a decade.

    All this will force even liberals to reappraise the Obama presidency. Lincoln's political reputation went from being "the original gorilla" (as Edwin Stanton, his future secretary of war, once called him) to being celebrated, in the words of Ulysses Grant, as "incontestably the greatest man I have ever known." Obama's political trajectory, and reputation, are headed in the opposite direction: from Candidate Cool to President Callow.

    That reappraisal is going to take many forms, not least in the international goodwill Mr. Obama's presidency was supposed to have brought us. But since the occasion of this column is the Gettysburg sesquicentennial, it's worth turning to the question of the president's once-celebrated prose.

    Abraham Lincoln spoke greatly because he read wisely and thought deeply. He turned to Shakespeare, he once said, "perhaps as frequently as any unprofessional reader." "It matters not to me whether Shakespeare be well or ill acted," he added. "With him the thought suffices."

    Maybe Mr. Obama has similar literary tastes. It doesn't show. "An economy built to last," the refrain from his 2012 State of the Union, borrows from an ad slogan once used to sell the Ford Edsel. "Nation-building at home," another favorite presidential trope, was born in a Tom Friedman column. "We are the ones we have been waiting for" is the title of a volume of essays by Alice Walker. "The audacity of hope" is adapted from a Jeremiah Wright sermon. "Yes We Can!" is the anthem from "Bob the Builder," a TV cartoon aimed at 3-year-olds.

    There is a common view that good policy and good rhetoric have little intrinsic connection. Not so. President Obama's stupendously shallow rhetoric betrays a remarkably superficial mind. Superficial minds designed ObamaCare. Superficial minds are now astounded by its elementary failures, and will continue to be astounded by the failures to come.

    Is there a remedy? Probably not. Then again, the president's no-show at Gettysburg suggests he might be trying to follow Old Abe's counsel in a fruitful way: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool," the Great Emancipator is reported to have said, "than to speak and to remove all doubt."
  • Nov 20, 2013, 06:35 AM
    NeedKarma
    Who would expect such an article from a conservative Murdoch rag? LOL.
  • Nov 20, 2013, 07:35 AM
    speechlesstx
    And the ankle biter is back.
  • Nov 20, 2013, 07:42 AM
    NeedKarma
    How are you not an ankle biter? What's your constructive alternative? You just copy/pasted a wall of text, a 5 year old could do that.. :D

    Are you a public servant who's doing a better job... or just criticizing all public servants while offering no help or solution?

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