Finally, getting down to the real crisis in America
In case you've missed it, there's a real crisis in America besides the shutdown theater... the name of the Washington DC NFL team.
The emperor felt compelled to offer his two cents recently, and Bob Costas interrupted our halftime highlights to weigh in...
Quote:
With Washington playing Dallas here tonight, it seems like an appropriate time to acknowledge the ongoing controversy about the name, “Redskins.” Let’s start here: there’s no reason to believe that owner Daniel Snyder, or any official or player from his team, harbors animus towards Native Americans, or chooses to disrespect them. This is undoubtedly also true of the vast majority of those who don’t think twice about the longstanding moniker. And in fact, as best could be determined, even a majority of Native Americans say they are not offended.
But, having stipulated that, there’s still a distinction to be made. Objections to names like Braves, Chiefs, Warriors and the like, strike many of us as political correctness run amuck. These nicknames honor, rather than demean. They’re pretty much the same as Vikings, Patriots, or even Cowboys. And names like Blackhawks, Seminoles and Chippewas, while potentially problematic, can still be okay provided the symbols are appropriately respectful. Which is where the Cleveland Indians, with the combination of their name and Chief Wahoo logo, have sometimes run into trouble.
A number of teams, mostly in the college ranks, have changed their names in response to objections. The Stanford Cardinal and the Dartmouth Big Green were each once the Indians. The St. Johns Redmen are now the Red Storm. And the Miami of Ohio Redskins, that’s right Redskins, are now the RedHawks. Still, the NFL franchise that represents the nation’s capital, has maintained its name.
But think for a moment about the term “Redskins,” and how it truly differs from all the others. Ask yourself what the equivalent would be if directed towards African Americans, Hispanics, Asians or any other ethnic group. When considered that way, “Redskins” can’t possibly honor a heritage or noble character trait, nor can it possibly be considered a neutral term. It’s an insult, a slur, no matter how benign the present day intent.
It’s fair to say that for a long time now, and certainly in 2013, no offense has been intended. But if you take a step back, isn’t it clear to see how offense might legitimately be taken?
Well, that was certainly helpful. Shut up Bob.
NBC also has a dedicated discussion site on the topic, and Redskins owner Dan Snyder has already said he will never change the name, which apparently only offends a few.
It's time to end this crisis and save America. Should Snyder cave to the tyranny of the PC minority and if so, how about helping him out with a new name for the team?
One suggestion I've seen, the Washington Barrycaders.
Oct 14, 2013, 07:28 AM
excon
Hello Steve:
Quote:
Should Snyder cave to the tyranny of the PC minority
Yes. Or, he could do it because it's the RIGHT thing to do.
Excon
Oct 14, 2013, 07:39 AM
tomder55
How about naming them The 'Washington Leviathan ' ? There are plenty of cool images available to use as a template for the helmet design .
Oct 14, 2013, 07:51 AM
speechlesstx
Did you know that on the first Redskins team that 4 players and the head coach were Native Americans? Or that their emblem was designed in consultation with the Red Cloud Athletic Fund at the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation? Or that most of us, including Democrats, don't think it's offensive? Or that if the PC crowd really wanted to make a difference they would focus on real issues within the Native American community, not the name of a football team?
Personally, I'm much more offended that Dems would run a fake Indian for Senate and crown her the next second coming. I don't think your side has any room to talk here.
Oct 14, 2013, 07:55 AM
speechlesstx
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
how about naming them The 'Washington Leviathan ' ? There are plenty of cool images available to use as a template for the helmet design .
I like it. Or it could be much simpler...
Oct 14, 2013, 06:17 PM
cdad
I think I will let the man speak for himself on this one...
Yeah we heard similar type of stuff when the Giants moved into NJ. Of course had the business climate been better in DC ,the team would likely have stayed there .
Oct 15, 2013, 04:59 AM
paraclete
I knew you guys are out to lunch or is it out to the ball game
Oct 15, 2013, 05:10 AM
speechlesstx
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Yeah we heard similar type of stuff when the Giants moved into NJ. Of course had the business climate been better in DC ,the team would likely have stayed there .
No need to move, just fix the negative association in the name. :)
Oct 15, 2013, 05:36 AM
excon
Hello backwards people:
There were a LOT of things that we did WRONG, in this country, and we changed 'em. THAT'S what makes this country the greatest on earth. But, those changes didn't happen easily.. People held onto the past, because they were afraid. But, once we changed, people found out their fears were unfounded.
Let me ask you Texas fellows something.. Didn't Perry belong to a club named nigger head ranch, or something? Is THAT a cool name? Should it be changed? Or, is it NONE of your business?
excon
Oct 15, 2013, 06:15 AM
speechlesstx
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello backwards people:
There were a LOT of things that we did WRONG, in this country, and we changed 'em. THAT'S what makes this country the greatest on earth. But, those changes didn't happen easily.. People held onto the past, because they were afraid. But, once we changed, people found out their fears were unfounded.
Let me ask you Texas fellows something.. Didn't Perry belong to a club named nigger head ranch, or something? Is THAT a cool name? Should it be changed? Or, is it NONE of your business?
excon
First, the name was painted on the rock when Perry took the lease, he didn't put it there and said he and his father painted over it so that's a manufactured issue. But you keep talking about doing the right thing. What is the right thing?
Is it really the right thing to force a team whose had the name for decades to change it because a few people are offended? They don't own the team, mind your own business. Whatever happened to live and live and do your own thing? Funny how the generation that lived those mottos has spawned the a "my way or the highway" mentality and quite frankly, that offends me.
Oct 15, 2013, 06:25 AM
excon
Hello again, Steve:
Quote:
What is the right thing?
Is it really the right thing to force a team whose had the name for decades to change it because a few people are offended?
I'm glad you asked. Clearly, you don't KNOW.
Was it right for a nation to CHANGE the way southern plantations were run for DECADES because a few people were offended?
You're God damned RIGHT it was!
Is it the right thing to force a team whose had a racist name for decades to change it because a few people are offended?
You're God damned RIGHT it is!
Any questions?
excon
Oct 15, 2013, 06:34 AM
speechlesstx
When you manufacture the war - as you do with the war on women - no, there's nothing right about it.
Oct 15, 2013, 06:48 AM
talaniman
Quote:
Funny how the generation that lived those mottos has spawned the a "my way or the highway" mentality and quite frankly, that offends me.
Join the party, right wing hollering has been offensive for years. You have been assimilating people for decades, and now don't want to be assimilated as your numbers shrink, and popularity, power, and influence wane.
Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated into the collective. You can no longer ignore change, just make it loud and messy. Keep following Ted and his racist constituents that were on display for all to see Friday at the right wing rally.
Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated into the collective
That could be the Democrat motto.
Oct 15, 2013, 06:58 AM
speechlesstx
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Join the party, right wing hollering has been offensive for years. You have been assimilating people for decades, and now don't want to be assimilated as your numbers shrink, and popularity, power, and influence wane.
Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated into the collective. You can no longer ignore change, just make it loud and messy. Keep following Ted and his racist constituents that were on display for all to see Friday at the right wing rally.
MSNBC host Lawrence O’Donnell compared Washington Redskins owner Dan Snyder’s defense of his team’s name to segregation on , saying “the force of history will crush” him and his team’s name.
“Dan Snyder is now the George Wallace of the NFL,” O’Donnell said.
After quoting Snyder’s declaration that he would never change the team’s name, O’Donnell played a clip of the segregationist governor’s infamous 1963 inaugural address, in which he promised “segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.”
When Wallace stood in the doorway at the University of Alabama a few months later in an attempt to prevent integration at the school, O’Donnell said, “the inevitable force of history overwhelmed [him], pushed him aside, and the University of Alabama was integrated.”
“The same thing will happen to Dan Snyder. The force of history will crush him. And the name of his football team will be changed,” O’Donnell said.
Apparently this is the outrage du jour on the left, they'll all be piling on soon even though they didn't give a fart about the issue for the last 80 years. Time to crush Snyder for daring to defy them. Up next, the Cleveland Indians - although I would think they should have been the first target...
It's a straw argument since its just opinion and nothing has changed just hollering. You know about hollering don't you? It's a right, you holler, we holler, its our right to holler.
What the only ones with a right to holler are wingers? You also have a right to holler back if you want to. Bet you didn't know that didja?
Oct 16, 2013, 07:58 AM
tomder55
I'm all for a name change. I already suggested one . Another option would be the 'Washington Pork Barrels' .
Got another option that aptly describes the town they play in The Washington Foreskins.
(sorry ,no logo available at this time )
Oct 16, 2013, 11:16 AM
NeedKarma
I guess no jews need apply.
Oct 16, 2013, 11:37 AM
speechlesstx
I like the Washington Red Skin Potatoes. Think of all the logo and slogan possibilities, Flamin' Taters, Spud Duds, Maryland Mash - and they still get to keep red skins.
Oct 16, 2013, 02:20 PM
talaniman
How about the Washington WOWboys?
Oct 16, 2013, 02:20 PM
speechlesstx
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
How about the Washington WOWboys?
LOL, suggest it., but I'm thinking the Big Bad Donuts would be better.
Don't you libs have anything better to do than find crap that offends you, and then offend us with your spiteful tactics and insults?
Oct 17, 2013, 09:18 AM
NeedKarma
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Don't you libs have anything better to do than find crap that offends you
Isn't that what the righties do on this board every day?
Plus he's not "the libs", he's one guy.
Oct 17, 2013, 09:42 AM
speechlesstx
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Isn't that what the righties do on this board every day?
Plus he's not "the libs", he's one guy.
Thank you for your always insightful and considerate responses.
Oct 17, 2013, 10:54 AM
excon
Hello again, Steve:
Of those three archaic symbols of pride and heritage, which one doesn't belong?
excon
Oct 17, 2013, 11:04 AM
speechlesstx
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello again, Steve:
Of those three archaic symbols of pride and heritage, which one doesn't belong?
excon
Nazis exterminated six million Jews, including over a million children. Confederates (and others) owned slaves. The Redskins play football. You tell me.
Oct 17, 2013, 11:17 AM
excon
Hello again, Steve:
If you wanted to justify one and not the others, that's the way I'd look at it too. However, in terms of their offensiveness, they're the same. Besides, "redskins" is NOT just a football term.
I don't understand why you and the owner want to continue to offend a certain segment of society. Why is that good?
excon
PS> (edited) Is it that you don't think they SHOULD be offended?
Oct 17, 2013, 11:37 AM
speechlesstx
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
I don't understand why you and the owner want to continue to offend a certain segment of society. Why is that good?
I posted this image recently of an Obama OFA activist holding a sign.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard and seen some variation of the word "teabagger" used by liberals/progressives, or how many times some black congressman has called us "crackers," or some black Republican an UNcle Tom.
Your side makes it an intentional practice to offend certain segments of society so excuse me while I laugh at your pretense of caring whether people are offended.
Oct 17, 2013, 11:45 AM
tomder55
Don't you know that old white guys don't have a right to be offended ?
Oct 17, 2013, 11:48 AM
speechlesstx
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Don't you know that old white guys don't have a right to be offended ?
