Hello:
It's clear that a felon CAN'T own a gun. If he applies, he'll be turned down. Some people think the act of applying when you're NOT eligible, is its own separate crime. I don't understand WHY that is. Can you splain that to me?
excon
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Hello:
It's clear that a felon CAN'T own a gun. If he applies, he'll be turned down. Some people think the act of applying when you're NOT eligible, is its own separate crime. I don't understand WHY that is. Can you splain that to me?
excon
Simple for the very same reason that trying to rob a bank is a crime... even if you don't get a dime. Did you actually rob it if you go away with nothing? It doesn't matter the attempt to commit a crime shows intent. Its an action then and not a thought.
Falls under the same umbrealla of conspiracy to commit a crime.
Hello smoothy:
That response makes NO sense whatsoever.
excon
Take a few more minutes and think about it some.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello again, smoothy:
Nahhhh.. I can spot nonsense right off the bat.
excon
I guess you don't believe in Conspiracy laws either... because that's exactly the same thing... only with two or more people,
Article 105 - NYS Penal Law - Conspiracy
That's just New Yorks as an example. Planning to commit a crime is also a crime.
The laws vary by state excon. In some states a felon may possess an "antique" firearm as defined under federal law. In some states blackpowder/muzzleloaders are legal for felons to purchase.
I didn't know this was an issue so no I can't 'splain it to you. Perhaps you can expand on the reason you ask.
Hello again, J:
Thanks, but that doesn't answer my question. It's a federal law that I'm asking about.. My question stems from the right wings refusal to expand background checks. They ask, why should we DO that, when we don't prosecute those felons who applied and got turned down...
My question is WHY is simply applying a crime? The law on WHAT exactly constitutes a felony record, IS evolving. In MY particular case, I MAY or MAY not be eligible to own a firearm. My felony's are OLD. My civil rights have been restored, in terms of VOTING. I truly don't KNOW if I'm eligible to own a gun, or not. Filling out an application would BE the way I'd determine whether I was or not.
WHY, would doing THAT, be a crime?? It makes NO sense to me.
excon
Applying isn't a crime. The felon just gets turned down, he/she doesn't get arrested for simply filling out the Form 4473.
I've turned down a ton of felons who have come into the shop (when we owned one), but none were arrested unless a straw purchase was attempted.
Has Obama taken your guns yet?. or all your ammo?
Not yet, but it's pretty expensive now.Quote:
Has Obama taken your guns yet?. or all your ammo?
Again, you'll have to point out who is making this argument because I haven't seen it.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello again, J:
Well, THAT makes sense.. But, it doesn't jibe with right wing talking points.Quote:
Applying isn't a crime. The felon just gets turned down, he/she doesn't get arrested for simply filling out the Form 4473.
Some people think applying IS a crime. I want to know WHY?Quote:
South Carolina lawmakers asked the Department of Justice on Thursday why it wasn’t prosecuting more felons and fugitives who fail background checks while trying to purchase a gun.
Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.) said instead of Congress passing gun-control legislation that limits Second Amendment rights, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder should be enforcing current laws that punish felons and fugitives trying to buy guns.
Excon
I think your paper is distorting the issue, it's not about applying being illegal but lying when you apply or having a warrant out when applying and not being prosecuted.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello again, Steve:
That's a nice soft tender face you put on it. I ain't buying it for a minute. Smoothy BELIEVES what THEY believe. Let me clue you in on cop thinking... It goes like this...I AM glad to hear that neither you or J believe a felon should be prosecuted for simply applying...Quote:
If felons can't own guns, and a felon applies, he's LYING
So, when the gun debate returns, can I count on you to debunk THAT argument when it rears its ugly head?? People like smoothy WILL absolutely keep it alive.
Excon
Okay, tell me why you, or anyone thinks a felon should be prosecuted for applying. The courts are tied up as it is. The jails are full. When the check comes back denied, just move on.
Now, not all felons are as upstanding as you. I've run into quite a few straw purchases. That's where it gets tricky. I even had a "friend" whose husband was a felon ask me if I would look the other way if she applied for the firearm.
I see no reason to validate that argument for a second, it is not a crime to apply that I know of.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
No, it's not a crime to apply. All that will happen is that the applicant will get denied and given a form to appeal. Now, if there is an active warrant against the applicant, that's a whole 'nother ball game.
Hello again, J:I don't think they should. That's why I asked the question. But, plenty of right wingers think they should.Quote:
Okay, tell me why you, or anyone thinks a felon should be prosecuted for applying.
Excon
Well honey, them right wingers are wrong, and I'm a right winger.
If you are less than 100% honest on every question... its a felony.
FEDERAL FIREARMS LAWS
d. False Statements - It is a felony violation to knowingly make a false statement or show a false identification to an FFL: § 922 (a)(6), 10 years or § 924 (a)(1)(A), 5 years.
Hello again, smoothy:
Glad you came around.Quote:
If you are less than 100% honest on every question... its a felony.
Excon
Now that we have that settled...
Nope... people that know they would be rejected if they were honest usually lie on the form hoping it gets approved. Otherwise why would you even do it? That can land them in jail.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello again, Steve:
Well, it's settled to a degree. Clearly we have a divide in the right wing over it. I DON'T agree that the article I linked you too overstated ANYTHING.. During the last debate THAT argument was brought up TIME and TIME again. In fact, I NEVER heard a right winger say what YOU'RE saying... They said, with NO equivocation, just like smoothy did, if you fill it out, and you're a felon, you BELONG in jail.Quote:
Now that we have that settled...
Excon
Like I said, I never heard that argument. Not once.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
I'm in PA and guns are purchased using a PICS check through the state police. It is not against the law to apply for a gun if you are a felon. What is against the law is lying on the form.
A friend of mine is a gun dealer in town. He has turned many people away because the PICS flagged them or flat out denied them for one reason or another. He does not make the call, the state police running their background check tells him yes or no. Only one time has anyone ever been arrested for applying at his shop. A guy came in and applied for a gun, got flagged by the PICS check and within minutes the state police were there to get him as he was leaving. Mark had no idea what they got him for but something during that check notified the police about the guy.
But back on the subject... I don't think it should be illegal for a felon to fill out the form and apply. I do agree with penalties for lying on the form and that goes for everyone, not just felons.
That's not what Smoothy said. Don't twist his words. He said if they lied on the Form 4473.Quote:
just like smoothy did, if you fill it out, and you're a felon, you BELONG in jail.
Lets me try to explain it to you. When your convicted and you are released it was explained what restrictions you were still under. So your made aware of what rights you have. And what were forfeit due to the crime committed.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Many States have a preauthorization process that you can enter into that can tell you if you can buy a gun or not. There is no crime committed by checking the system. On the other hand when you fill out the form at your local FFL for a firearm you are in fact already half way to possession of a weapon. You are in fact attempting to be checked out for a specific weapon.
Other then how the law applies. It is simaler to buying a car or house that you will pay for over time. You might choose to get preapproval for your loan and go out seeking what you can afford or you might go to a dealership or home sale and write a contract then apply.
If you are denied in the first scenario then you won't even go looking. Where in the 2nd one your test driving or looking over the product of your choice before application.
So as you can see you have already handled the gun in some way and exchanged funds for purchase before making the application vs just asking if you can or not without handleing anything.
If possession of a gun by a felon is illegal, then it seems reasonable that the attempt to get a gun is also illegal.
Interesting question Excon.
I would like to know if it is true that applying is illegal. I have mental health issues and hospitalizations related to it. I have always heard it is illegal for me to have a gun. I wonder if I can be charged with a crime for applying.
If people are saying felons should be charged then so should everyone else with issues that say it is illegal for them to own a gun. Wonder how full our jails would be?
NOTE: I live in Canada I am unsure if you have the same restrictions for people with mental health issues or not in the USA.
Falsifying your application is illegal, applying is not.
Wrong. It is illegal to apply for a firearm through a FFL if you are a felon and banned from owning such weapon.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Hello Ex,
Send your girlfriend into the pawn shop down the street.
Mission accomplished. That's just one of many easy ways to get a gun. How many do you want?
Hello Moderator, J:Can't you READ??Quote:
That's not what Smoothy said. Don't twist his words.
Excon
Its obvious you can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Give it another try...
Give false information on that form and you find yourself a guest of the Grey Bar Hotel for a few years and with another Felony conviction.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Hello again,
So, it ISN'T settled then.. Didn't think so.
excon
Hello again, smoothy:
Nuff said. You'll NEVER win a battle of words with me.Quote:
Simple for the very same reason that trying to rob a bank is a crime..
Excon
Well, there you go.Quote:
Originally Posted by cdad
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