Where the Boston plot seems to indicate a lone wolf operation largely without the cooperation of a foreign based support cell. (any evidence to the contrary probably died with Tamerlan Tsarnaev). The same can't be said about the Canadian plot .

Canadian police linked the plot to destroy a Toronto passenger train to an AQ network inside Iran.
Royal Canadian Mounted Police Assistant Commissioner James Malizia said that the two suspects, identified as Chiheb Esseghaier, of Montreal, and Raed Jaser, of Toronto, received "support from al Qaeda elements located in Iran" in the form of "direction and guidance." [notice how Canadian authorities did not hesitate to use the word ‘terrorist’ ]

Esseghaier is a doctoral student at the Institut National de la Recherché Scientifique... has a bachelors degree in Industrial Biology and a masters degree in Industrial Biotechnology. According to his Linkedin page ,Nanotechnology is one of his "Skills & Expertise." He is thought to be a Tunisian.His Linkedin page also displayedan image of al Qaeda's black flag. (since removed from the site ) .

Iran denies the links to AQ ,but Iran's ties to al Qaeda are well documented .The US government has added several Iran-based al Qaeda leaders and operatives to its list of global terrorists, and even noted a "secret deal" between the Iranian government and al Qaeda.

In January 2009, the Treasury Department designated senior al Qaeda members operating in Iran ,included Mustafa Hamid,the leader of AQ in Iran .
They described Hamid as "a senior al Qaeda associate who served as a primary interlocutor between al Qaeda and the Government of Iran." During the 1990s, Hamid "reportedly negotiated a secret relationship between Osama Bin Laden and Iran, allowing many al Qaeda members safe transit through Iran to Afghanistan." Hamid also "passed communications between Osama bin Laden and the Government of Iran." In 2001, Hamid negotiated with the Iranians to relocate al Qaeda families to Iranian soil ,including Saif al Adel (Hamid's son in law ). Al Adel is wanted in America for his involvement in the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania.

OBL's son, Saad bin Laden "facilitated the travel of Osama bin Laden's family members from Afghanistan to Iran" beginning in late 2001. He also "made key decisions for al Qaeda and was part of a small group of al Qaeda members that was involved in managing the terrorist organization from Iran."
So the fact that AQ operates out of Iran is well documented .
The Canadians do not believe that the plot is a state sponsored terror event. But that is a largely irrelevant distinction. They give them safe haven to operate out of their country. That makes them as guilty as the plotters.

Esseghaier has refused to be represented by an attorney.

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Esseghaier faces five charges, including of conspiring, between April 1 and Sept. 25, 2012, in Montreal and Toronto, "to interfere with transportation facilities" in Canada "for the benefit of, at the direction of, or in association with a terrorist group."

The pair are also charged with conspiring to "murder persons unknown" at the direction of or in association with a terrorist group.

Both men are charged individually with participating in, or contributing to, a terrorist group activity "for the purpose of enhancing the ability of any terrorist group to facilitate or carry out a terrorist activity."

The last charge in the indictment singles out Esseghaier and alleges that, between Sept. 7 and Dec. 20, 2012, he instructed "directly or indirectly, any person to carry out any activity for the benefit" of a terrorist group.

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Terror suspect Esseghaier could face a Toronto court on Wednesday
The plot involved a bombing and derailment as the train travelled over the Niagra River on the Whirpool Rapids Bridge.

I haven't worked out what you are trying to prove
Al Qaeda is dangerous
Iran approves of Al Qaeda
Al Qaeda are shiite

Well we know they are dangerous but they don't need to approve of them for their members to shelter in Iran, after all they manage to shelter in many countries including the US, and we know that Al Qaeda are opposed to Shiites; so figure it out, they are as much a danger to Iran as they are to the US, but you are the opportunity target

Al Qaeda is not adjusting with non - sunni branches of Islam, like shia, sufi etc. Iran is majority shia country. Al Qaeda don't need anybody's approval to make sleeper cells. Its possible there are some supporters of them in many countries, even non muslim nations.

Let's start with the contrast between the way the Mounties handle a terrorist plot and how the US agencies dropped the ball. Couple things ,they did not hesitiate to call it terrorism ,by Islamic terrorist jihadists;specifically al-Qaeda ,and it was conducted by jihadists working out of Iran.

Also it appears that there was plenty of awareness about the activities of Tamerlan Tsarnaev before that was ignored by the US agencies in their attempts to be politically correct.


There is also this false narrative that says Iran and AQ could not work together because of the Sunni -Shia divide. This is further evidence of their collaboration... a collaboration that goes back at least as far back as the Khobar Tower attack.

There is also issues in both Canada and the US about who can enter the country with temporary /permanent visas ;or in the case of the Tsarnaev family... "refugee" status.

Heard they found a dna of a female in Boston attack. Now the women also involved. But I was shocked to see a video of 5-6 year old children in terror camps in Pakistan shooting with AK 47 and pistols.

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Originally Posted by smkanand

heard they found a dna of a female in Boston attack. now the women also involved. but I was shocked to see a video of 5-6 year old children in terror camps in Pakistan shooting with AK 47 and pistols.

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Child soldiers in the Muslim world are nothing new and women have been instruments of terror too, Muslims are fanatics, that is the way it is, from the cradle to the grave they are taught and Pakistan is the hotbed of muslim fanaticism, so don't be shocked, be determined that they shall not enter your country

They already entered. You can not change your neighbours. But pakistan is adobe of all such fundamentalist. They given asylum to bin laden and god knows what they are hiding. I'm sure that all the terror attack links finally connect to pakistan.

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Originally Posted by smkanand

they already entered. you can not change your neighbours. but pakistan is adobe of all such fundamentalist. they given asylum to bin laden and god knows what they are hiding. I'm sure that all the terror attack links finally connect to pakistan.

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Yes there are serious problems there and it would settle down if the US would leave the region and stops stirring it up, everywhere the US plants its foot in the muslim world becomes a problem. The cultural divide is too great and cannot be bridged. The war in afghanistan should have been over long ago but it suited the military/industrial complex for it to go on

Yeah all the problems with the Muslim world began when the US started meddling in their affairs .When you get a clue let me know.

Not true, afgan and pakistan were always been with terrible violence past and history. Its not that US entered and things gone bad or if US will leave and things will be fine. In 1947 kabalian attacked India. They were fighting a proxy war with help of pak administration. Even today Bin Laden was in Pak with help of ISI and army. So the issue is not US. Even if US leaves Afagn, I'm sure things will go crazier than you think.

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Originally Posted by smkanand

Not true, afgan and pakistan were always been with terrible violence past and history. its not that US entered and things gone bad or if US will leave and things will be fine. In 1947 kabalian attacked India. they were fighting a proxy war with help of pak administration. even today Bin Laden was in Pak with help of ISI and army. so the issue is not US. even if US leaves Afagn, I'm sure things will go crazier than you think.

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Yes they might but right now every time a drone kills someone they go ape so no drones they can go back to fighting among themselves. The point is take away the object of their violence and at least some will pack it in because they have no target, excepting of course Khan who may be the only voice of reason.

Someone who shall remain nameless and clueless thinks I don't have a clue but my son married into a pakistani family so I'm a little closer to the issues than most. I have been there so I know what the place looks like, etc. they are a volitile people and radical islam makes them more volitile. They don't like India it's full of heathens but they like the US less because the americans don't stay home

Um... before there was any US involvement in Pakistan ,there was a war of partition that cost a half million lives ,and displaced at least 10 million persons . But that is not the beginning . The tension between India and Pakistan is rooted in religious violence that began during the 7th century invasion of Muslims into India. Again where is the US in that calculus ?

I will admit that regretably the US backed the wrong horse during the Cold War . But in recent years ;especially during the GW Bush Presidency ,the US has begun to correct that error.

You can never resolve a sectarian war, nor wipe out the other side.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I will admit that regretably the US backed the wrong horse during the Cold War . But in recent years ;especially during the GW Bush Presidency ,the US has begun to correct that error.

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You don't get it once again, you shouldn't have backed any horse. India and Pakistan will sort it out without your help. There are almost as many muslims in India as there are in Pakistan no one wins in a sectarian war on the subcontinent. And both India and Pakistan live with the reality of Iran. The only people blowing hard in the region are the US

That's not true as China and Russia are blowing as hard but not as public. The region has many things we all want.

Really, you want some slave labour that's about all they have to offer. Russia has had interests there for centuries and China is blowing in your direction and you want somewhere to move your cheap labour industries. Tell you what; buy some Pakistani shoes, nike could only improve them and their tailoring could do with an eye for detail. They tell me Tata does a nice range of cars, a little on the squeezy side but... I forgot about the dope what will all those boys do when they leave Afghanistan?

Afgan people are in trap of drugs, war, extremist. Pakistani are in worse situation, they know what they are backing and they still doing it. Even chines are dealing with uygur muslims in their region. Let's assume that US left Afgan then what afgan goes back in hands of different taliban groups. Pak will use afgan for their own purpose. Recently in pakistan, their ex-PM's son got kidnapped by some terror group, when there is army strong presence.

I say India should take Afghanistan. The Pakis interest in the region is a fall back area when the Indians kick their a$$ .

The Indians can barely manage India.

You should reconsider that ;your information is about 2 decades out of date.. They are a great nation that is rapidly emerging to assume their proper place in the world.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I say India should take Afghanistan. The Pakis interest in the region is a fall back area when the Indians kick their a$$ .

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Are you totally nuts? This demonstrates the lack of american understanding of the issues.

Afghanistan is an islamic nation, they are only intereted in a relationship with India as a bullwark against Pakistan. Pakistan has a large and aggressive military and a little problem with the Pastun population many of whom live in Afghanistan. They would be better off redrawing the border and handing the tribal areas to Afghanistan.The taliban are a construct of Pakistan and aggressive US foreign policy and it bit them on the bum. In a war with India you would find that Afghanistan would side with Pakistan, there is nothing muslims love more than a good holy war.

What's going on with the Ugyhar population in Sinkang has no bearing on the Pakistan/India thing

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The taliban are a construct of Pakistan and aggressive US foreign policy and it bit them on the bum.

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BS the US had zero involvement in the formation of the Taliban.

Also I never mentioned the Ugyhars . They are resistance fighters against Chinese brutal aggression. I'll say it again . The ONLY reason Pakistan has an interest in Afghanistan is in the broader context of the Indian -Pakistan tensions.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

BS the US had zero involvement in the formation of the Taliban.

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You facilitated it in your proxy war against the Russians in Afghanistan

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Also I never mentioned the Ugyhars . They are resistance fighters against Chinese brutal aggression.

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Yes an ethnic minority in a region being increasingly populated by Han Chinese

Look Tom no one likes their terrirory being taken over by another ethnic group and nowhere is there a level playing field. You like to criticise the Chinese but your own record with minorities is not that good. Just because you had an epiphany in the latter half of the twentieth century doesn't mean everyone is held to your "high" standard. In fact whenever you sceam about the Chinese I wonder what you are covering at home. The "look over there" tactic is well known

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I'll say it again . The ONLY reason Pakistan has an interest in Afghanistan is in the broader context of the Indian -Pakistan tensions.

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I'll say it again, should I use large type. Pakistan and Afghanistan share common ethnic and religious populations, there is far more than just India involved here. There is a lot of history of various empires and civilizations. The Hindus of India were very glad to get out from under the Muslim thumb but the only real conflict they have now is Kashmir which once again has strong religious overtones. The foolishness of the British is that they didn't hand the thing over as a whole and let the locals sort it out. Everywhere the British were involved in this partition crap has left a smouldering trouble spot

I don't know what Tal means, he definitely don't know about Indian sub-continent. India is very active in afgan. Almost equally as US but not on military level. India invested 100$billion for infrastructure. Giving their police and forces training. Afagn people are extremely difficult to handle. They are divided into many groups which are mostly aggressive. But Pak is in quite self destructive mode. Problem is Pak is run by army and ISI , democracy is a mask. There is parallel government.

smkanand , correct . India has been involved in Afghanstan for some time now . Clete thinks because some of the tribes cross borders ,and they share a religion ,that they are somehow joined at the hip with Pakistan . This is nonsense. The Pakis incursions into the Waziristan regions hardly illustrate a unity . And the Pashtun incursions into Pakistan pose as much a threat to the Pakistan government as it does to the Afghan.
The Taliban may indeed dominate in the future with the help of the ISI ,but they will never fully control the country . They ruled the country in the 1990s . But there were large sections of Tajik, Uzbeks, Hazaras areas they never controlled. Clete seems to think the whole country is Pashtun.But the news to him is that even in the Pashtun community there is no love for the Taliban. They are indeed ISI proxies. The last time they took control of the country ,the world slept until it was too late. This time will be different . Regardless of how many irregulars the Pakis send in to bolster the ranks of the Taliban ,the world ,and specifically the nations that surround Afghanistan remember what the consequences of a Taliban controlled Afghanistan means.
And as I recall ,India gave substantial support to the Northern Alliance. It is also true that at least since 2002 ,Indian companies like Sanjay Gupta's C&C Construction have been active in infrastructure projects in the country.

Tom no one denys that India are savvy business men and well capable of exploiting a siutation. The Indians have their own reasons for destabilising Pakistan. No I don't think the Afghans are all Pastun That population straddles the border between the two countries and there are large numbers in Pakistan. If Khan gains the ascendency you will see what the Pastuns might be able to do to bring unity and an end to internal fighting in Pakistan. I still contend the US has destabilised the whole area with their phony war on terror. They ousted the Taliban then did nothing, another "Mission accomplished" for GWB. You see what right wing B/S breeds

Yes, not all the afgani people support taliban. This hardcore extremism is part of pakistani ideology and saudi support to it. Some afgan groups have positive approach. Before partition, afgan was part of India and a great pashtu leader khan abdul gaffar khan was highly influenced by nonviolence methods of Gandhi. That legacy has to restored in the region for betterment. So afgan-india relations are quite different from afgan-pak ties. Fact is if you see history of this area no one ever in the world win afgan. Reasons are many including geographic.

Clete I get it . In your view the United States is the root of all evil.

Self appointed for profit cops are hardly the way to popularity in the world.

We went to Iraq for the oil, right? What profit were we going after in Afghanistan?

Sooner or later US has to leave afgan that's confirm but that's not going to change anything expect those who hates US, might change some views. I don't think US is cause of terror in particularly sub-continent. India need a democratic pakistan if not secular for regional stability, not causing any unrest in pak. Pak is itself responsible for destablising entire region, if I may say world.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

We went to Iraq for the oil, right? What profit were we going after in Afghanistan?

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You know that's a really good question the opium fields offer opportunities, supply has been good in recent years but there are lots of untouched minerals there, might be important one day, but you're are there to keep the pressure on Iran and keep Russia in the north

We went there because the world slept while the Taliban took it over ,and created a safe haven for AQ. We have stayed there to assist set up a representative central government that has a sufficiently competent internal security apparatus to fend off the Taliban/Paki ISI .
This is in the interest of all the nations surrounding Afghanistan except evidently Pakistan . It is clearly in the interest of India ,China ,and Russia (you are wrong about that too Clete... Russia wants us there ,and that is why they have provided an alternate supply route through their country ) .

History of the Taliban - Brief History of the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan, With al-Qaeda and the United States

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Originally Posted by tomder55

We went there because the world slept while the Taliban took it over ,and created a safe haven for AQ. We have stayed there to assist set up a representative central government that has a sufficiently competent internal security apparatus to fend off the Taliban/Paki ISI .
This is in the interest of all the nations surrounding Afghanistan except evidently Pakistan . It is clearly in the interest of India ,China ,and Russia (you are wrong about that too Clete ....Russia wants us there ,and that is why they have provided an alternate supply route through their country ) .

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You can't blame the world for Al Qaeda blame yourselves they were your enemy and now you want to say you are opposed to your ally Pakistan. What sort of twisted crap is this? The sort of twisted crap you always go on with playing one against the other. Yes an independent Afghanisan is in the interests first of the Afghani and who gives a stuff if it is in the interest of India, China or Russia. Russia was happy to facilitate you kicking the @rse of those who kicked them out, nothing more and it isn't really Russia but surrounding nations who didn't want the destabilising influence of the Taliban. If Pakistan were not a failed state who would worry about their influence in Afghanistan, it was good enough during the Russian occupation for you to cultivate Pakistan and that ISI you now disown. This is a monster of your own making, just as Iran is, just as Iraq was. Don't think it is in the interest of Iran to have you in Afghanistan

Yeah that's right... all the ills of the world is the US fault . Do you ever listen to yourself ?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

yeah that's right ... all the ills of the world is the US fault . Do you ever listen to yourself ?

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You know Tom you just might stop and think once in a while... was this necessary?. why would we do that?. it is good to see you are not interferring boots and all in Syria although I wouldn't put it past you to have fermented it. You are all about projecting your power here or there or somewhereelse, you should stop and listen to yourselves and yes Tom I know what I am saying isn't sweet music to your ears because it is a reality check