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  • Apr 10, 2013, 08:11 AM
    speechlesstx
    The butchers of Philadelphia
    And it has nothing to do with cheesesteaks. Kermit Gosnell is facing 43 criminal charges including 8 counts of murder and the national media has no interest in reporting on the story, well except for Fox News that is. I'll again spare you the details but you should at least check out part of the reported trial testimony, such as here and here.

    What Gosnell - and his employees allegedly did - is horrific enough, but the very people that I'm repeatedly told we need looking out for us, government regulators, not only failed to protect the health and safety of women in abortion clinics and the apparently significant number of children born alive in them, they neglected them "by design."

    From the Grand Jury's report:

    Quote:

    We discovered that Pennsylvania’s Department of Health has deliberately chosen not to enforce laws that should afford patients at abortion clinics the same safeguards and assurances of quality health care as patients of other medical service providers. Even nail salons in Pennsylvania are monitored more closely for client safety.

    The State Legislature has charged the Department of Health (DOH) with responsibility for writing and enforcing regulations to protect health and safety in abortion clinics as well as in hospitals and other health care facilities. Yet a significant difference exists between how DOH monitors abortion clinics and how it monitors facilities where other medical procedures are performed.

    Indeed, the department has shown an utter disregard both for the safety of women who seek treatment at abortion clinics and for the health of fetuses after they have become viable. State health officials have also shown a disregard for the laws the department is supposed to enforce. Most appalling of all, the Department of Health’s neglect of abortion patients’ safety and of Pennsylvania laws is clearly not inadvertent: It is by design.

    State health officials knew that Gosnell and his clinic were offering unacceptable medical care to women and girls, yet DOH failed to take any action to stop the atrocities documented by this Grand Jury. These officials were far more protective of themselves when they testified before the Grand Jury. Even DOH lawyers, including the chief counsel, brought private attorneys with them – presumably at government expense.
    How many more state's are failing to protect the women 'served' by abortion clinics and why in the hell isn't the media reporting this?

    No excuses.
  • Apr 10, 2013, 08:27 AM
    tomder55
    Well you know where I stand on this
    Ask Me Help Desk - View Single Post - Gun Control ...it didn't take long
    I think this is much more common than will be admitted.. Btw ,Planned Parenthood has always opposed laws that defend the right to life for babies that survive the coup de grace .
    LifeSiteNews Mobile | Planned Parenthood has history of opposing anti-infanticide legislation
    But then again... so has Emperor 0.
  • Apr 10, 2013, 11:36 AM
    speechlesstx
    I guess Philadelphia media is the only media willing to report on what the others black out...

    Quote:

    Delaware abortion clinic facing charges of unsafe and unsanitary conditions

    April 9, 2013 (WPVI) -- A local abortion clinic is under fire, facing allegations of unsafe and unsanitary conditions.

    A series of emergency calls made from the Planned Parenthood of Delaware this year are raising concerns about what's happening behind the closed doors.

    Two former nurses who both quit are speaking exclusively with Action News about what they saw inside.

    Jayne Mitchell-Werbrich, former employee said, "It was just unsafe. I couldn't tell you how ridiculously unsafe it was."

    Werbrich alleges conditions inside the facility were unsanitary.

    "He didn't wear gloves," said Werbrich.

    Another former employee, Joyce Vasikonis told Action News, "They were using instruments on patients that were not sterile."

    The former nurses claim that a rush to get patients in and out left operating tables soiled and unclean.

    Werbrich said "It's not washed down, it's not even cleaned off. It has bloody drainage on it."

    "They could be at risk of getting hepatitis, even AIDS," added Vasikonis.

    Both of these nurses said, they quit to protect their own medical licenses, stunned by what they called a meat-market style of assembly-line abortions.

    Vasikonis said, "I felt I could be held liable if a patient was harmed."

    "Planned Parenthood needs to close its doors, it's needs to be cleaned up, the staff needs to be trained, said Werbrich."

    In Delaware, abortion clinics are not subject to routine inspections. The state only steps in when they have a patient complaint. Planned Parenthood is essentially in charge of inspecting itself.

    Mary Peterson from the Delaware Department of Health and Human Services said, "I am not going to lie to you, we don't have the manpower to do routine inspections."

    She says, her investigators went into the facility in October of last year after a complaint.

    We asked Peterson, did they find any problems with the sterilization of utensils. She told us "no, no." We then asked if blood was being left after one patient had surgery and another one came in, she replied, "absolutely none."

    Investigators say, they have not found evidence to support the claims raised by Vasikonis and Werbrich.

    Since January 4th, five patients allegedly have been rushed from the facility to the emergency room, again placing the clinic in the spotlight.

    Peterson says, it raises concerns and they are in the process of looking into what is causing the issues to occur.

    Action News has learned during our investigation that one doctor and two more nurses at the clinic have mysteriously left.

    Planned Parenthood would not confirm if they were fired or resigned.
    Seems Pennsylvania isn't the only state that fails to protect the health and safety of women.
  • Apr 11, 2013, 07:39 AM
    speechlesstx
    I love a liberal with a conscience (as opposed to "the conscience of a liberal"). Once again Kirsten Powers gets it, and since no one but tom seems to care you're getting some of the details.

    Quote:

    Philadelphia abortion clinic horror: Column
    Kirsten Powers 9:01p.m. EDT April 10, 2013
    We've forgotten what belongs on Page One.

    Infant beheadings. Severed baby feet in jars. A child screaming after it was delivered alive during an abortion procedure. Haven't heard about these sickening accusations?

    It's not your fault. Since the murder trial of Pennsylvania abortion doctor Kermit Gosnell began March 18, there has been precious little coverage of the case that should be on every news show and front page. The revolting revelations of Gosnell's former staff, who have been testifying to what they witnessed and did during late-term abortions, should shock anyone with a heart.

    NBC-10 Philadelphia reported that, Stephen Massof, a former Gosnell worker, "described how he snipped the spinal cords of babies, calling it, 'literally a beheading. It is separating the brain from the body." One former worker, Adrienne Moton, testified that Gosnell taught her his "snipping" technique to use on infants born alive.

    Massof, who, like other witnesses, has himself pleaded guilty to serious crimes, testified "It would rain fetuses. Fetuses and blood all over the place." Here is the headline the Associated Press put on a story about his testimony that he saw 100 babies born and then snipped: "Staffer describes chaos at PA abortion clinic."

    "Chaos" isn't really the story here. Butchering babies that were already born and were older than the state's 24-week limit for abortions is the story. There is a reason the late Democratic senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan called this procedure infanticide.

    Planned Parenthood recently claimed that the possibility of infants surviving late-term abortions was "highly unusual." The Gosnell case suggests otherwise.

    Regardless of such quibbles, about whether Gosnell was killing the infants one second after they left the womb instead of partially inside or completely inside the womb — as in a routine late-term abortion — is merely a matter of geography. That one is murder and the other is a legal procedure is morally irreconcilable.

    A Lexis-Nexis search shows none of the news shows on the three major national television networks has mentioned the Gosnell trial in the last three months. The exception is when Wall Street Journal columnist Peggy Noonan hijacked a segment on Meet the Press meant to foment outrage over an anti-abortion rights law in some backward red state.

    The Washington Post has not published original reporting on this during the trial and The New York Times saw fit to run one original story on A-17 on the trial's first day. They've been silent ever since, despite headline-worthy testimony.

    Let me state the obvious. This should be front page news. When Rush Limbaugh attacked Sandra Fluke, there was non-stop media hysteria. The venerable NBC Nightly News' Brian Williams intoned, "A firestorm of outrage from women after a crude tirade from Rush Limbaugh," as he teased a segment on the brouhaha. Yet, accusations of babies having their heads severed — a major human rights story if there ever was one — doesn't make the cut.

    You don't have to oppose abortion rights to find late-term abortion abhorrent or to find the Gosnell trial eminently newsworthy. This is not about being "pro-choice" or "pro-life." It's about basic human rights.

    The deafening silence of too much of the media, once a force for justice in America, is a disgrace.

    Kirsten Powers is a member of USA TODAY's Board of Contributors, a Fox News political analyst and columnist for The Daily Beast.
    Everyone knows about the mythical war on women. Everyone knows about Seamus the dog. A butcher in Philadelphia, two states that don't protect women's health and safety? Nothing, zero, zilch from the mainstream media. Where the hell is the outrage?
  • Apr 12, 2013, 04:47 AM
    speechlesstx
    Ugh...

    Quote:

    Gosnell Witness: I assisted in abortions while in high school

    By Joseph A. Slobodzian, INQUIRER STAFF WRITER
    Posted: April 11, 2013

    Like a lot of high school sophomores, 15-year-old Ashley Baldwin found a job.

    Baldwin, however, wasn't working retail or fast-food. She was doing ultrasounds, administering intravenous medicine and, ultimately, assisting in abortions performed by West Philadelphia doctor Kermit Gosnell.

    Baldwin, now 22, and the mother of a two-year-old, today told a Philadelphia jury hearing Gosnell's murder trial of her unusual hands-on medical apprenticeship.

    She also told of seeing at least five aborted babies moving, breathing and, in one case, "screeching," after procedures at Gosnells' Women's Medical Society clinic at 3801 Lancaster Ave.

    "They looked just like regular babies," Baldwin said to Assistant District Attorney Joanne Pescatore.

    Baldwin said one baby she saw was so big that Gosnell joked that "this baby is going to walk me home."

    Baldwin was hired by Gosnell in September 2006. She had an in: her mother, Tina Baldwin, had worked there since 2001.

    Ashley Baldwin has not been charged with any crime. Tina Baldwin, 47, has pleaded guilty to racketeering, conspiracy and corrupting a minor - her daughter - and will testify later today.

    Gosnell, 72, is also charged with corrupting a minor involving Ashley Baldwin.

    Like other Gosnell workers, Baldwin testified that Gosnell taught her the rudiments of using an ultrasound, administering IV medicine and some lab work. She said she was working legally because, as a doctor, he had "grandfathered her in."

    Starting answering phones, Baldwin quickly moved up in the organization. By the time authorities raided the clinic in February 2010, Baldwin was going to school and working as much as 50 hours a week in the clinic, sometimes into the early morning.

    Baldwin said she assisted Gosnell in abortions, applying pressure to the mother's abdomen, handing the doctor instruments and equipment.

    She said she also saw Gosnell use scissors to "snip" the neck of newborns who were moving after the procedure.
    Crickets chirping...
  • Apr 12, 2013, 05:08 AM
    tomder55
    I'll give credit to Kirsten Powers . One of the few libs that think this is news worthy.
  • Apr 12, 2013, 06:46 AM
    speechlesstx
    Yep, the media doesn't want anyone to know real, live children are born from abortions just before getting whacked, that high school girls who should be studying and enjoying their teen years might be a part of it, that women may be risking their lives with these 'doctors' and that the agencies charged with protecting them look the other way - BY DESIGN - as the Grand Jury stated.
  • Apr 12, 2013, 10:19 AM
    smoothy
    Notice how the lefties are essentially absent from commenting on this? I guess its because they condone this sort of thing.
  • Apr 12, 2013, 10:45 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    Notice how the lefties are essentially absent from commenting on this? I guess its because they condone this sort of thing.

    I'm sure it's because of what they've have to admit.
  • Apr 12, 2013, 11:15 AM
    smoothy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    I'm sure it's because of what they've have to admit.

    Exactly... like how they defend the murder of unborn babies... and even newborn babies... while defending the right to life of mass murderers.
  • Apr 12, 2013, 11:33 AM
    tomder55
    Apparently if you want the media's attention when you mass murder children, you have to use a gun... scissors, scalpels, bare hands, etc. just aren't news worthy... even if the murders number in the thousands...
  • Apr 12, 2013, 11:39 AM
    smoothy
    Liberals are allowed to do anything.. they want by the left... absolutely anything they want. Including mass murder.
  • Apr 12, 2013, 01:39 PM
    speechlesstx
    This is the media section at the butcher of Philadelphia's trial.

    http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.c...diaseating.jpg
  • Apr 12, 2013, 01:54 PM
    speechlesstx
    2 Attachment(s)
    Kirsten Powers is still on the job...
  • Apr 12, 2013, 02:46 PM
    Tuttyd
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    Notice how the lefties are essentially absent from commenting on this? I guess its because they condone this sort of thing.

    You guess wrong.

    The whole thing is very sad on a number of levels.
  • Apr 12, 2013, 05:08 PM
    paraclete
    Since you consider me a lefty I will comment even though the subject sickens me. I am against abortion. I believe it to be first degree murder and I think not only the abortionist but also the woman and any accomplice should be imprisioned. Only then would this rotten practice be stamped out apparently there are 3000 abortions a day in the USA
  • Apr 13, 2013, 04:25 AM
    speechlesstx
    Thanks Tut and Clete, maybe others will chime in now? Not holding my breath...
  • Apr 13, 2013, 04:37 AM
    speechlesstx
    As I was saying earlier, I suspect some are remaining silent on this because of what they would have to admit. It puts a rather large kink in their arguments, such has been used against me here. Here's the first...

    Quote:

    Where is that same assiduousness on the Gosnell case, a case that shocks the conscience? This story -- which if nothing else suggests that live births do, in fact, happen during late- term abortions -- upsets a particular narrative about the reality of certain types of abortion, and that reality isn’t something some pro-choice absolutists want to discuss.
    More to come...
  • Apr 14, 2013, 05:29 AM
    speechlesstx
    Ugh...

    Kermit Gosnell's Website Openly Offered "Late Terminations," Sedation Choices

    Looking out for women's health in PA.
  • Apr 14, 2013, 05:48 AM
    excon
    Hello:

    It's been suggested that I support this horrid doctor. I don't. It's also been suggested that abortion LEADS to this kind of savagery. It doesn't.

    excon
  • Apr 14, 2013, 06:01 AM
    talaniman
    I just want to know how he got away with his atrocities for so long.
  • Apr 14, 2013, 06:02 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello:

    It's been suggested that I support this horrid doctor. I don't. It's also been suggested that abortion LEADS to this kind of savagery. It doesn't.

    excon

    I made no such suggestion about anyone. But, a culture that has dehumanized babies and made abortion an untouchable human right DOES lead to this kind of savagery. There is no other way to explain the government agency charged with regulation turning a blind eye to such abuse "by design," and a media that did all it could to avoid the story which should have been on page one.
  • Apr 14, 2013, 06:54 AM
    excon
    Hello again,

    If we followed the tenets of Roe, there wouldn't BE live births. That there are, is a problem with TODAY'S lawmakers - not Roe v. Wade. The word viability was KEY in that decision..

    excon
  • Apr 14, 2013, 07:05 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    I just want to know how he got away with his atrocities for so long.

    I believe I've said it several times, the PA Dept of Health's neglect of the abuses was "by design." The people charged with protecting these women turned their heads.
  • Apr 14, 2013, 07:39 AM
    talaniman
    I fully agree, and hope this doctor isn't the only one held accountable for this tragic outrage.
  • Apr 14, 2013, 08:36 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    I fully agree, and hope this doctor isn't the only one held accountable for this tragic outrage.

    Glad we're on the same page here.
  • Apr 14, 2013, 09:57 AM
    tomder55
    That word viability ;a subjective term if there ever was one.. is the basis for more restrictive abortion laws . You think not ? It is the advances in medical science that allow viability at a much younger age of development ,putting that lie to rest that an unborn baby is just an appendage of the mother .
    All the legality did was replace the coat hanger with the scalpel ,surgical scissor ,vacuum .Here are 2 popular procedures for carrying out 2nd trimester murders :
    D&E" (dilation and evacuation). The physician inserts a long toothed clamp through the woman's vagina into the uterus. She/he grabs body parts of the fetus at random, breaks them from the body and pulls them out. Finally, the head is crushed and extracted. Finally, the placenta and any remaining parts of the fetus are suctioned from the uterus.

    "D&X" (dilation and extraction) The woman's cervix is dilated. If necessary, the fetus is rotated until it is facing feet downwards. The surgeon reaches into the uterus and pulls the fetus' body, with the exception of its head, out of the woman's body. Surgical scissors are inserted into the base of the fetal skull, and withdrawn. A suction tube is inserted and the fetus' brains are removed through aspiration. This partially collapses the fetal skull. The fetus is then fully removed from the woman's body.
    The difference between Gosnell the butcher ,and Gosnell the compassionate caring physician is a matter of a few inches of woman's body that the murdered baby has to travel.
  • Apr 14, 2013, 11:35 AM
    tomder55
    Richard Fernandez @ Belmont Club comments on PJ Media's editor Roger Simon's conversion from a " pro-choice " position after seeing a report about the butchery of Gosnell .

    Roger L. Simon » GosnellGate: It's the A-Word

    Quote:

    To understand 3801 Lancaster street maybe we should go back to Moloch rather than to the system of industrial execution that flourished 70 years ago. Child sacrifice — “the ritualistic killing of children in order to please, propitiate or force a god or supernatural beings” was long practiced by the Incas, Aztec, many cultures in the Middle East, North Africa and in pagan Europe. The question is: why? What was its purpose that Moloch should be worshipped thus in his many names?

    One theory is that child sacrifice was a sacramental device used to kill what we used to call “God” Himself. Moloch's problem was how to get everyone to belong to him and to no other. His answer was to arrange a radical crossing over, an extreme commitment, a journey beyond the pale so shocking that to embark upon it was to go beyond point of no return. There was no going back to God after that. And once you had offered your child to Moloch there was no point refusing him anything else.

    Killing your own child – just as acquiescing to killing the Jews was to the German public — was a form of enlistment by complicity. It is the last and most decisive step in the extinction of freedom. Though apparently practiced upon the child the real target of abasement is the mother. And by extension it is all of us. That is the shame the conservative pundits felt. Not the shame of sexual guilt. It is the shame of having gone along. By consenting to be an accomplice in the destruction of her own child she binds herself mystically to the doctrine of Moloch. “You are nothing but meat. So take this child and eat. Do this in memory of you.”
    Belmont Club » The House on the Corner
  • Apr 15, 2013, 04:01 AM
    speechlesstx
    Spot on.
  • Apr 18, 2013, 06:06 AM
    tomder55
    Check out this history of our modern day Mengele .
    Quote:

    1972, International Planned Parenthood Federation was one of two groups partnering with the country of Bangladesh to bring Dr. Harvey Karman and a small team of “abortion experts,” which included two IPPF doctors, to the newly formed country to commit abortions and train native doctors and paramedics how to commit them.

    Abortion was Karman's “consuming passion,” according to Salon, which acknowledged Karman wasn't really any sort of doctor whatsoever but had simply “added a Ph.D. to his name, though his degree came from a dubious Swiss diploma mill.”

    Karman was, in fact, a convicted felon, having served 2-1/2 years in prison – until pardoned by then Gov. Jerry Brown – for killing a mother in 1955 while attempting to illegally abort her in a hotel room with a nutcracker.

    The Bangladesh incident was over 40 years ago, less than one year before the Supreme Court would make abortion legal throughout the U.S.

    But even then the mainstream media was in the tank for abortion. You would never know by the Los Angeles Times' glowing April 5, 1972, report that Karman's experimental use on Bangladeshi rape victims of his new late-term abortion contraption, called the “super coil,” was a disaster:


    Essentially, the Karman method, which has gained wide acceptance internationally, permits abortions of pregnancies up to the seventh month – or later – without the use of either anesthetics or standard metal surgical instruments….

    In advanced pregnancies up to the seventh month, Karman inserts one or more small, equally simplified plastic coils into the uterus. When exposed to moisture, the coils expand, inducing a miscarriage within 10-20 hours….

    That was the spin. Here's what the super coil actually was, explained in the grand jury report on Kermit Gosnell, who I'll get to in a minute, taken from testimony by Dr. Randy Hutchins, who once worked for Gosnell:


    [T]here was a device that he and a psychologist [Karman] were working on that was supposed to be plastic – basically plastic razors that were formed into a ball. All right. They were coated into a gel, so that they would remain closed. These would be inserted into the woman's uterus. And after several hours of body temperature, it would then – the gel would melt and these 97 things would spring open, supposedly cutting up the fetus, and the fetus would be expelled.

    The problem was that they never tested it. They didn't test it on any animals. They never did any – any – any other human trials. This was not something that was sanctioned by the FDA. This was just something that he decided – he and this guy decided they were going to use on these women.

    What women? On Mother's Day 1972 Karman followed up his Bangladesh experiment in America, with the help of Kermit Gosnell .

    On Mother's Day weekend in 1972, Karman, other activists, and 15 women in their second trimester of pregnancy boarded a bus in Chicago and headed for Philadelphia, where Gosnell had agreed to give them super-coil abortions at his clinic, then at 133 S. 36th St. The women, who were poor, had been unable to get abortions in Chicago or New York.

    Gosnell's super-coil abortions – filmed and later shown on a New York City educational-TV program, thanks to Karman – turned out badly.

    The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Philadelphia Department of Public Health subsequently did an investigation that detailed serious complications suffered by nine of the 15 women, including one who needed a hysterectomy.

    The complications included a punctured uterus, hemorrhage, infections, and retained fetal remains.
    The CDC researchers recommended strict controls on any future testing of the device – the beginning of “increasing regulations on the development of reproductive technologies,” Tunc wrote.

    Karman spent two years in court battles in Philadelphia. He was convicted of practicing medicine without a license, but a Common Pleas Court judge overturned the conviction in 1974, saying then-District Attorney Arlen Specter had failed to show which women Karman had treated.

    Gosnell – who testified that Karman had done an “innocuous” part of the procedures but not fetal extractions – was not charged with anything.
    Also read this October 12, 1972, Gettysburg Times account. I contacted WNET, the public television station in New York that filmed what came to be known as the Mother's Day Massacre. I'd love to see that archived program. I will certainly alert readers if I get a response.

    Bottom line: Planned Parenthood was perfectly willing to treat impoverished women of color as guinea pigs for an experimental late-term abortion gadget, no different than Kermit Gosnell at the time. (All of Gosnell's super-coil patients were black and poor.)
    I wrote in my title that Planned Parenthood was separated by one degree from Gosnell.

    Actually, not.
    Planned Parenthood's one degree of separation from Gosnell's 1972 "Mother's Day Massacre"
    And yet he remained a licensed doctor eligible to perform this legal butchery . Nothing else needs to be said. The nation was sold on the narrative that legal abortion was the safe alternative to the coat hanger days. I see no difference.
  • Apr 18, 2013, 06:48 AM
    speechlesstx
    But tom, ensuring safety in the abortionist's office is a "phony concern," and any law that recognizes the humanity of the fetus or restricts abortion in any way is just another way to "punish women."

    In fact, it's the pro-life crowd's fault that a butcher like Gosnell could have any patients at all because hey, medical standards make abortion more expensive. But there's no money in abortion, right? Maybe Eric Holder would know.

    Heck, you can even lose your medical license and still perform abortions, which as we know rarely result in live births.

    Well, the abortion absolutists should be ASHAMED.

    Gosnell Worker: Toilets Backed Up With Body Parts From Abortions
  • Apr 19, 2013, 01:43 AM
    Tuttyd
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Richard Fernandez @ Belmont Club comments on PJ Media's editor Roger Simon's conversion from a " pro-choice " position after seeing a report about the butchery of Gosnell .

    Roger L. Simon » GosnellGate: It's the A-Word


    Belmont Club » The House on the Corner

    As with most conversions I think the author is somewhat naïve in his interpretation. If we extract ourselves from the ancient world for a moment we can come to the realization that despite what the author says, Moloch does not have a problem. We have the problem. The Enlightenment message is clearly written. It is our ability to reason that has created this society.

    Unfortunately, freedom comes with a dilemma. The dilemma taking the form of a question. Which 'gods' are we prepared to prostrate ourselves before? The materialistic 'god' or perhaps some higher entity? Perhaps on the other hand, someone would only do this type of thing because they are worshiping something other than materialism.

    We will continue to fail because, as with the author of the article, we are free to choose some arbitrary outlook as a possible explanation for the problem. This is the beauty of freedom on this type of scale. We are never burdened by the consequences of our decisions.
  • Apr 19, 2013, 03:30 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Moloch does not have a problem. We have the problem
    Moloch is as much a false god as the modern 'material' god . Moloch’s problem was how to get everyone to belong to him and to no other.
    Quote:

    Perhaps on the other hand, someone would only do this type of thing because they are worshiping something other than materialism.
    Substitute Moloch for Satan if it makes more sense . Child sacrifice is pure evil because it destroys pure innocence .Hell of a price to pay for convenience.
    God does not demand that we sacrifice our children for God ;instead God's son was sacrficed for us .
  • Apr 19, 2013, 04:05 AM
    Tuttyd
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Moloch is as much a false god as the modern 'material' god . Moloch's problem was how to get everyone to belong to him and to no other.
    Substitute Moloch for Satan if it makes more sense . Child sacrifice is pure evil because it destroys pure innocence .Hell of a price to pay for convenience.
    God does not demand that we sacrifice our children for God ;instead God's son was sacrficed for us .

    This has nothing to do with the supernatural. It is a cop-out. It is convenient to explain the whole dashedly thing in this way.
  • Apr 19, 2013, 04:07 AM
    paraclete
    If you want to get all religious over this, it is clear; Satan, as always, has found a way to slaughter the innocents and it is easy because the logic is simple. Just get someone to think the solution is all about me, that god that has replaced God. This is the Me generation, they worship themselves and have that three headed god, Me, Myself and I and governments have been stupid enough to listen to them, let me restate that, politicians have been stupid enough to listen to them. It is time we rejected the politics of stupidity
  • Apr 19, 2013, 04:33 AM
    speechlesstx
    Someone needs to be burdened by the consequences of making our children disposable.
  • Apr 19, 2013, 04:46 AM
    Tuttyd
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Someone needs to be burdened by the consequences of making our children disposable.

    No thanks. It's too depressing reading about how well others do it.
  • Apr 19, 2013, 04:49 AM
    NeedKarma
    The weird thing is that it's the religious who get abortions too.
  • Apr 19, 2013, 05:04 AM
    smoothy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    The weird thing is that it's the religious who get abortions too.

    Most people that get abortions aren't religious.

    In fact... Atheists are the biggest advocates of baby murder.
  • Apr 19, 2013, 05:08 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tuttyd View Post
    This has nothing to do with the supernatural. It is a cop-out. It is convenient to explain the whole dashedly thing in this way.

    Of course, it's easy to make a rational explanation for murdering babies...

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