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Hello:
Some of our right wing friends think the way to win elections is to move FURTHER to the right. But, my question to them is, how many right wingers are out there, who AREN'T already voting with you?
Now, I don't know about politics, much.. But, I think doing that will spell the END of the Republican party as we know it...
Hillary in '16 AND 2020. Then it'll be Beau Biden. Go Beau! (I like the sound of that)
excon
Nobody moved further right... thats an illusion because the lefties have moved furth left than Stalin, Mao or Castro ever had the nerve to go.
I don't see where the right is moving further right, but the left is certainly moving further left.
I don't know... yesterday we came to a resonable plan for immigration... secure the border in exchange for a path to legal status .
Now the President is going to fly all day round trip to announce his plan which will cut the knees out from under our resonable compromise. So who is the extremist ?
The truth is that the Dems will stall any plan that is not 100 % theirs .They'd rather demagogue the illegal immigration issue than fix the problem since they gain politically by attacking the Repubics as racist xenophobes.
Hello tom:
Actually, the senators cut the knees out from under the president.. It was known well ahead of time that he was going to Vegas to announce HIS immigration plan...
My guess is the only real difference will be the SPEED at which the undocumented can attain citizenship... Maybe some BENCHMARKS on securing the border... We CAN'T leave it up to the likes of Joe Arpio and Jan Brewer to TELL us when the border is secure... IF that's the case, phase II will NEVER happen. That's part of the senators plan, by the way. It ain't going to fly.
excon
And on Friday some Democrats urged him NOT to put forth his own plan so who's cutting whose knees?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
It's not really the president's job to write bills, that job falls to congress.Quote:
Some senior Democratic members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus used a private White House meeting Friday to urge President Obama not to unveil his own immigration legislation, for fear of blowing up delicate bipartisan talks, Democratic sources tell CNN.
This is significant for several reasons.
First, because the White House has been telling senators and advocates that they are writing their own immigration bill, in legislative language. It is incredibly rare for the White House to write its own bill.
Second – Democrats urging the president not to release a bill illustrates how polarizing the immigration issue remains – especially for Republicans who fear that signing onto any legislation that could be seen as authored by the president could invite primary challenges for Republicans.
"It's a tricky thing. We want him to lead, but Republicans are in a difficult position," said a Democratic source familiar with Friday's meeting.
Sources familiar with the bipartisan Senate framework announced Monday tell CNN one of the main reasons they chose to unveil their framework one day before the president's planned Tuesday speech on the subject, was to start the national dialogue on their bipartisan terrain. Politically, CNN is told the senators felt it was crucial for it to be known that there has been a real bipartisan process ongoing that is independent from the president.
In fact, Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-New York, did not call the president to inform him of Monday's announcement until Sunday.
Hello again, Steve:
So, he's supposed to just sit around?? You really DON'T know how it works there, do you?
But, if the pres doesn't write bills, why do you blame him for Obamacare?
excon
Touché.Quote:
But, if the pres doesn't write bills, why do you blame him for Obamacare?
Let him explain how a bipartisan plan by the Senate is DOA within 24 hrs.after it's introduced . What's the matter ? Schmuck Schumer not liberal enough ?
Apparently you don't know the difference between a proposal and an actual bill. I repeat from the article, "It is incredibly rare for the White House to write its own bill" in "legislative language."Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
a) it was his proposal, b) he takes credit and c) why do you blame Bush for everything?Quote:
But, if the pres doesn't write bills, why do you blame him for Obamacare?
Apparently you don't know how it works either.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Steve baby - you got burned, just accept it. :)
It was a gotcha question with no substance to back it up. The only ones who got burned were you and ex by my knowledge of the facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
You take this all sooooooo seriously, like it's life or death. Odd.
This member discussions forum are always lacking in substance and full of sensationalism and party rhetoric, can't take it seriously at all dude.
Again with the making sh*t up in your endless - and futile - effort to make me look silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Again, if none of this interests you then feel free to ignore our discussions, dude.Quote:
This member discussions forum are always lacking in substance and full of sensationalism and party rhetoric, can't take it seriously at all dude.
So in vour mind a gulag has been set up containing labour and re-education camps and the death squads move throughout the country seeking to eliminate all Rebublicans and the intellectuals. You know where this happened? In your mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
They turned the country into one... thanks to the Media completely giving up any pretext of honesty or accuracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Enough people are clueless enough and oblivious enough to actually believe the crap that passes for news, which is nothing but fiction and propaganda.
PRAVDA actually looks less extreme in retrospect than the lame stream media of today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Well, maybe once, but now more and more draft legislation is being planned and refined outside of the political process. Both state and federally.
Perhaps, but the House and the Senate are constitutionally our 'legislative' branches of government. The prez can tell Congress what he wants, but Congress writes the laws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuttyd
Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
No doubt true in this case.
My reference was an attempt to introduce a wider picture. At the moment draft legislation in many states is being formulated by organizations who are not part of the democratic process.
Hello again,
Freshman Tea Party senator Cruz (Texas) is one of the three senators who voted AGAINST confirming John Kerry as Secretary of State...
This guy is chicken hawk. Chicken hawks run away from serving in the military, but have strong criticisms for those people who don't run away. This particular chicken hawk, speaking of Chuck Hagel and John Kerry, said "Both are less than ardent fans of the US military".
Between them, they have 5 purple hearts... Cruz has his d!ck. As a person who didn't run away either, I'm offended.
excon
Im sure chuck hagel earned his medals during the time he served. Im not so sure about Kerry. Also including the fact that he returned his / or maybe he didn't? Im not impressed with Kerry's record on many subjects.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Did Kerry Discard Vietnam Medals? - ABC News
Why John Kerry Should Not Be Secretary of State
How did John Kerry get OUT of his tour in Vietnam after only 4 months when the tour was a year... who did he have to blow to pull that off?
He got a purple heart
I guess if you didn't serve you forfeit your right to oppose the nomination or have an opinion about it ;or express your opinion on issues of war and peace . Cruz earned that right by being elected to represent his State in the Senate.Only 9% of the population has ever served ;including the draft era generation. So 91% of us should just shut up and let a junta of the martial class run the country.
Hello again, tom:
I don't object to his opposition.. I object to what he SAID.
He's a nutless CHICKENHAWK. He NEVER served... He RAN AWAY. He's AFRAID! How the FU*K can he say that these guys DON'T love the military, but Ted Cruz DOES!!
Look. You can excuse this sleazy bastard all you want, but if it were me, I'D be ashamed to stand up for him...
excon
For a minute there I thought you were talking about Carl Levin . He is on the Armed Services committee ;has said some disgusting things about our troops... and NEVER SERVED ! What right does he have to his opinion or tone ? Let's round up all the lawmakers who have never served and drum them out... including the President .Quote:
He's a nutless CHICKENHAWK. He NEVER served... He RAN AWAY. He's AFRAID!
Undertakers deal with dead people... AND THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN DEAD!!!! Absolutely disgusting. Drum them out.
It is obvious no one knows how it works. The president isn't likely to be in the detail, he will perhaps broad brush an approach with his cabinet, someone is going to tell him if it has any chance of getting up and then it is over to the legal eagles who work for the house and the senate to suggest appropriate language and ultimately a bill is presented which will be debated and be modified. It really doesn't matter whose idea it is because there is going to be negotiation
Obamas immigration policy has been on line for two years,and in his Vegas speech he said the same thing he said before in ElPaso, Texas, in 2011, almost word for word. Rubios plan is so close to the president's its not funny, but all we here about is support for Rubios plan. Okay cool, but those who can actually read and keep up with facts know the repubs are late to the immigration party, and are only willing because latinos ran like hell from the repubs ideas and candidates during the last election. So Obama hasn't changed, but repubs certainly have. Now THEY want to talk and compromise.
Obama has done the enforcement part of this deal and if repubs don't actually allow the pathway part to develop, and work, all this will be for naught and you guys will pay yet again.
The President lies through his teeth about enforcement . Ask the people living on the border if they think border security is sufficient .
Hello again, tom:
Man, if you want to talk about LIARS, you can't leave out Arizona governor Jan Brewer.. She lied about headless corps's laying all around the desert...Quote:
The President lies through his teeth about enforcement . Ask the people living on the border if they think border security is sufficient .
Bwa, ha ha ha.
Excon
You mean ask the wingers? Obama has put more boots on the ground along the Southwestern border than any president, and deported more people than any in history while getting 71% of the latino vote.
It's the wingers that are lying.
All you need to do is to include people who returned to their country on their own into the stats ;and it's easy to make the figures look impressive.Quote:
and deported more people than any in history
The President admitted he cooked the books by including people that have been turned away at the border. The truth is that ICE is arresting far fewer people in the interior than ever before. 2010, ICE located fewer than half the number of deportable aliens in 2010 than they did in 2006 (517,000, down from 1.2 million).
So the President's inflated numbers come from people who have done what Romney called 'voluntary deportation' due to the bad economy ,and people who have been turned away at the border.
So if more are turned away and less being arrested why isn't that enough to implement a better process for the ones in the shadows now?
And if the president was man enough to admit his own accounting mistakes, how is that lying through his teeth? And why are the Mexicans the only immigrants you guys are worried about?
Hello again, tom:
What's instructive about this conversation, is the fact that people like you, smoothy and Steve will NEVER support a comprehensive immigration reform bill. You've got MILLIONS of reasons not. I understand. After all, who amongst us can switch up a long held position on a dime??
You're no different than Rubio, or Graham, or the flip flopper, McCain, and the Tea Party dude, Jeff Flake... They don't WANT this policy either... They're ONLY doing it to assuage Hispanic voters so they can win elections. They really don't believe what they're saying. Nonetheless, they're trying..
Are you going to HELP them, or not?
excon
I guess I missed where Cruz was drafted and dodged service, could you point that out? Also, I like the exact quotes that offend you.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Meanwhile, I VOTED FOR TED CRUZ TO REPRESENT MY INTERESTS, not kiss a$$ and play nice. I think he's a welcome change from that mushy KBH and I would be disappointed if he didn't buck the establishment.
Steve
I'm already on record as supporting reform so that's a lie. Excuse me though if I'm apprehensive about this president's 'comprehensive' anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello again, Steve:
You'll excuse me, if I didn't get the memo. So, help me out here.. Does all that gobbeldy gook mean that the 11 million people here illegally can STAY?
I asked tom the same thing.. He won't say.. He says if ALL his terms are met, whether they can stay or not is NEGOTIABLE.. Which, of course, means they CAN'T stay..
excon
I asked you for details first. But no, I don't believe every illegal deserves to stay, I'm sure there are some you wouldn't want in your neighborhood.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
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