Hello:
We're pretty divided, both politically and geographically. I don't think we've been THIS divided since before the civil war. Do you think we can make it as a nation?
excon
|
Hello:
We're pretty divided, both politically and geographically. I don't think we've been THIS divided since before the civil war. Do you think we can make it as a nation?
excon
In his speech where he left office George Washington warned the nation that it faced many problems and dangers.
1. division between North, South, East and West.
2. division and use of two parties which would fight for power
3. allowing the checks and balances of the three party system to fail
4. getting national debt, wanted debt paid every year except if in war
5. not keeping religion and a national morality that was needed to keep people desire good
6. making changes to Constitution and passing laws that agree with the changes of moral and society values. Only change if the need for protection of the Union.
Everything he warned about has happened. According to his follow up, the Republic can not make it, unless these issues are corrected.
Hello Padre:
So, how do we correct them?
excon
Fr Chuck ;now don't you know that quoting the founders makes you an 18th Century Troglodyte ? That you are only quoting the "opinions " of dead white slave owners ?
Well that is very true of Washington. You lost you way long ago, the way back is very hard and you may not have the stomach for it, you only have to look at the greeks to see the possibilities. Washington left out a possibility, when the nation is run by corporations and faceless men
Is that the problem with Greece ? I thought it was unfunded entitlements .
Depends, do you want to help people move up or make them more secure in their poverty?
We can start by filling those millions of jobs out there that are open.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
OK, hard to get someone to work at McDonald's when they can make more on the government dole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Hello again,
So, NO answers? Just more complaints, huh? Figured.
excon
For my 2 cents ;we are NOT more divided than the civil war or the founding . The geographic divide is only if you look at electoral college states . When you break them down to electoral districts you see a clearer patchwork. Also the issues we debate are the same ones debated since the founding . We don't have our leaders dueling with pistols or caning each other as once happened in the halls of Congress.
http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/...ningSumner.jpg
I gave you a clue but hey, you want answers? Stop intentionally dividing the country by class, race, gender...Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Did you look at the faces of the Republican convention attendees and then compare them to the faces of the Democratic convention attendees? If so, did you notice anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Who's dividing the country by class, race, and gender?
Hello again, Steve:
I could have said that YOU should toe MY line too... But, that's NOT an answer. It's more of the same.Quote:
I gave you a clue but hey, you want answers? Stop intentionally dividing the country by class, race, gender...
So, you got NOTHING?? Figured.
Excon
Hmm, maybe that's because the left spends vast amounts of time and effort telling blacks we gon' put 'em back in chains. I mean really Carol, duh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Yeah it is an answer. Amazing you can't figure out that after all that time telling us we're greedy, racist, homophobic, sexist neanderthals why the country might be divided?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
I'll guess I will put my two cents worth in as well.
If there is a division problem then you would probably need to change your ethos.
Dictionary.com gives a number of definitions of ethos [ee-thos]
1. Sociology, the fundamental character or spirit of a culture; the underlying sentiment that informs the beliefs, customs and practices of a group or society; dominant assumptions of a people or a period.
In the Greek ethos the individual was highly valued.
In your society the individual is also highly valued. While this is a very good thing it also has a down side. Informed self-interest is not a good starting point for any type of unification process.
When founded in the late 18th century Australia's found themselves (for the greater part of our history) to be strangers in a strange land. The environment was very harsh and unfriendly. To be a self-serving individual was not a good recipe for success in the early history of our country. We always believed that you need rely on your mates. So in a way it was a collectivist ethos that shaped our nation.
Tut
Hello again, Steve:
It's amazing to ME that you're UNABLE to figure out what I'm asking.. I know WHY we're divided.Quote:
Amazing you can't figure out that after all that time telling us we're greedy, racist, homophobic, sexist neanderthals why the country might be divided?
If you want to participate in the SOLUTION you're invited.. If you just want to cast your usual right wing aspersions, take it somewhere else. I AIN'T interested in it.
Do you remember that jerkoff named Mourdock you tried to foist upon us... When he was asked about compromise, he said his idea of compromise was the left wing coming over to HIS side. That was most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, and that's why HE lost.. You sound JUST like him. The problem will NOT be solved by me becoming a rabid right winger. For you to THINK it would is BONKERS..
Look. It's clear. You have NO solutions..
Excon
If you know why and have the solution why aren't you telling us?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
LOL, I always have to laugh when a lib talks about compromise.Quote:
Do you remember that jerkoff named Mourdock you tried to foist upon us... When he was asked about compromise, he said his idea of compromise was the left wing coming over to HIS side.
I don't quite follow how telling you that calling us greedy, racist, homophobic, sexist neanderthals is divisive means I'm unwilling to compromise, but I'm sure you'll tell me. I've never asked you to be anything but yourself, but I get that the words you put in mouth mean much more to you than reality.Quote:
That was most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, and that's why HE lost.. You sound JUST like him. The problem will NOT be solved by me becoming a rabid right winger. For you to THINK it would is BONKERS..
Just waiting for your solution. You libs are always great a telling us how we really should be... but you aren't very good with sarcasm and irony.Quote:
Look. It's clear. You have NO solutions..
Ex thinks the solution is to bring back the birch
First off the only way we are going to save anything is to start with the basics.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
1) Find something - anything that can be agreed on and start there.
2) Stop spending so much money.
3) Actually form a budget that takes in more then it spends.
I know Im dreaming but this country is in the worst shape it has been in during my lifetime.
So you think the solution relies on politicians being responsible and being signed on to the big picture, good luck with that
Hello dad:
You get it. I don't disagree with anything you said.
excon
I think the nation will continue but I think the pendulum has swung very far to the left and there will need to be an adjustment. We have already lost one of the pillars of democracy which is a balanced, free press. It was not balanced in our early founding years - it was riddled with lies and propaganda. Hopefully we will see the wisdom of demanding more of our media as happened a century and a half ago, and raise the bar again.
Hopefully we will also see the folly of overlooking the balance of powers. Our current president, whether you support him or not, has flouted the boundaries of his role. Bush steamrolled over the Geneva Conventions, Obama continued it. So - we will need to put each branch of our government back in their own role. Obama is the most politically divisive President in my lifetime. Whether his policies are good, this divisiveness is a hazard.
I think the greatest danger to our government is when we fall in love with our leadership and idolize any members thereof. This is a hallmark of every repressive government in history - always starts that way. The love for Obama is really strange. I see that people will support their candidate, but the level of infatuation is a new thing in the modern American era and is dangerous.
And Fr. Is right - when we eliminate all sense of faith and morals from our nation, we loose the point. The idea in founding of our nation was to permit everyone to openly practice their religion without fear of reprisals. Many misunderstand this foundation and think that our government and nation must be atheistic. The growing intolerance for Christianity in particular is very concerning. It is one of many signs that we are turning on our history and ourselves.
We need tolerance combined with a common ethic and we are throwing away the ethic, and tolerating only those on the edges of society.
Hello don't:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.. I've heard that right wing claptrap before. That isn't what this post is about. I COULD complain about the right wing, like you and Steve do about the left, but that ISN'T what this post is about.
I'm looking for SOLUTIONS, if there are any. I KNOW what the complaints are.
excon
The solution ex is consensus, each side compromising until agreement is reached and then abiding by the result
Hello clete:
That's it? All we have to do is agree? Well, shut my mouth. How come I didn't think of that?
excon
Wa'll ex tis cause you ain't aducated in group thunkin, y'all want it your ainway or the highway. When's the last time you called the nation together to tell the Prassidant what he ought to do? No, you let him tell you what you ought to do and it don't come out right.
You see you got it all backwards, the executive is about getting things done, the legislature is about deciding what should be done, and the courts, well, they is just along for the ride
It has happened before and we have the example in Nazi Germany of one possible outcome, in that case those on the edges of society were the victims. It is the inevitiable outcome that they must find a scapegoat and usually it is the one who says we don't like your agenda. The Christains have always said no to abortion and homosexuality, so now they are targets of scorn in a society in which anything goesQuote:
Originally Posted by dontknownuthin
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
The reason you didn't think of it is probably because you realized that it isn't the solution to the problem.
Unfortunately the ability to compromise may have nothing to do with healing divisions. It depends on the disagreement, but most political compromises come out of necessity. The divisions still remain as large as ever. As I said in an earlier post, most divisions run a lot deeper than politics... it seems no one was interested in that avenue.
Tut
Come on Tut they don't know that, you give them too much credit, they haven't though about compromise
Yes we have... our history is full of examples of compromise . The current impasses will be solved the same way.
H'mmmmm!
Here's the great divide according to a new Gallup poll. 27% of Republicans/leaners have a negative image of the federal government, while 75% of Democratsa/leaners have a positive image of federal government. 53% of Dems also have a positive view of socialism.
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/...wy71vegriw.gif
Not quite sure how 88% of Dems can reconcile having a positive view of free enterprise and 84% of entrepreneurs based on these numbers, but there you have it in a nutshell. Dems LOVE big government. Personally I think they just don't want to take responsibility for anything except how to spend my money.
Hello again, Steve:
That's probably because Democrats UNDERSTAND what socialism IS and we don't demonize the word like you wingers do. You know that we have PLENTY of socialism built into our system, and it works FINE. You know, things like your police and fire departments, the military, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, your local ER for example.. Stuff like that...Quote:
Not quite sure how 88% of Dems can reconcile having a positive view of free enterprise and 84% of entrepreneurs based on these numbers,
And, because they LIKE stuff like that, doesn't mean AT ALL that they don't also like capitalism. They seem to work together pretty good.
Excon
Only 55% like capitalism. The larger point I put in bold letters, 75% LOVE big government while only 27% of Republicans have a positive view of the federal government. It's not any better understanding of anything it's a mindset, I want to take care of myself and my family and help out where I can - PERSONALLY.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
You want government to take care of everyone via legalized theft and I think that's not only LAZY but HARMFUL to the very ones you think you're protecting. Not to mention the damage it does to the country and our freedoms.
And by the way, the military, police and fire are socialist, they are not part of the production and distribution segment of our economy. And when you guys get done with it the INSURANCE I paid for in SS and Medicare will be gone.
So you're against "police and fire departments, the military, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, your local ER for example"?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Did you not even bother to read my last answer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Yes, I even quoted it in my response.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Well you obviously missed the point. Police, FD and military are not part of the production and distribution segment of our economy, i.e. it is not socialism to have police, fire departments and an army. They are government SERVICES, and in the case of police and fire and ERs they are LOCAL concerns. Many fire departments are VOLUNTEER, some actually charge for services.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
SS and Medicare are insurance policies I'm paying for which big government is squandering. I would much rather have been able to decide where my money went towards my retirement.
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:58 AM. |