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Well it had to happen sooner or later. The Batman saga has been very dark and we could expect that the worst would become evident sooner or later, this wasn't a copy cat but nevertehless pehaps we can have a ban on these dark comic characters inspiring violence
14 killed in mass shooting at Batman screening
Too soon to comment... the blood is still warm. All I know is that when the Columbine killings happened people started to point fingers at Marilyn Manson music ;which was absolutely absurd. I don't think his career ever rebounded.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
By the way ;Batman has always been a dark psycologically disturbed basket case . The Nolan depiction of dystopian Gotham has been the one that best captures the character and the villians he's battled . Heath Ledger's portrayal of Joker in particular was outstanding .
I was going to go tomorrow to see it ;but the theater is sold out ;so I'll wait a week.
Tom we have some weirdo's in this world and they are set off by dark scenarios. You do know Gotham is synomous with the place where you live and the whole scenario played out in Batman is some sort of metaphor perhaps lost to us now. Look at the characters surely you can find some locals who fit
Yes I already mentioned on another thred that Bruce Wayne /Batman is the 1% er who's public image during the day is every stereotype you see about "the rich" ,and who's altrustic pursuits are not advertised .
What makes Batman different from most of the other Superheros (except perhaps Ironman) is that he is not endowed with any special power . He did not get bit by a spider ,he did not get a dose of a nuke ;he was not born on another planet .He uses his intelligence and learned martial skills ;and his wealth to create the gadgets he uses to fight crime.
But he is a deeply disturbed individual battling the trauma of a bat attack as a child ;and watching his parents get murdered.
The Gotham City in the comics was indeed probably modeled after NYC ,although today's NYC is no where's near as bad as it was before Giuliani . Back in the 1970s one could've made a better case for that comparison.
Nolan in the Dark Night trilogy has tried to update the story to the 21st century. Joker was an OBL like anarchistic terrorists who forced Batman to go to the limits of moral crime fighting tactics . Harvey Dent was the DA who got credit for cleaning up the city while in fact being a corrupted official.
In the new movie ,much of the battle between Batman and Bane was filmed on Wall Street ,and I'm told there are scenes from the OWS encampment .
Again ;too early to know the motivation behind the attack. It is presumptious to think that the movie is related except for the coincidence that there would be a crowd gathered in a confined space after midnight .Best guess is that made it a target of opportunity for someone who wanted to commit mass murder.
Yep, too early for snark Clete. Prayers for the injured and the families would be more appropriate at this point.
We now know the murderous bass turd was a lone gunman named James Holmes ;a 24 year old white man . According to CBS News, authorities have found no evidence to suggest the incident was terrorism-related. Holmes was not on any watch list that could have alerted authorities that he was dangerous, NBC reported. He also has no military history.
But that didn't stop ABC's Brian Ross from suggesting there may have been a link between Holmes and the Tea Party.
Turns out there is a 55 year old guy in Denver also names James Holmes who had joined the TP. Ross and the network has since apologized .
Turns out there are about 12 James Holmes in the area.
My daughter came across this post on Facebook .
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Dearest random Facebook people who keep confusing me for a mass murderer and yet still send me Facebook requests.;
I appreciate the fact that you are trying to become better-informed about the occurrences last night in Aurora, but you have been somewhat mislead, in that I am not the man who did it. I am not a 24-year-old gun-slinging killer from Aurora, I am a 22-year-old book-slinging mass eater from Littleton. Somewhat distinct, I would assume. But I would appreciate if you would read this particular post an not assume that it would be interesting to be friends with someone on Facebook who is very probably going to be in jail and not be able to confirm your friend requests anyway, or even be friends with his girlfriend, who had the rather interesting experience of having to tell someone she had a job interview with that she is not, in fact dating a serial killer. James Holmes happens to be a pretty common name, surprisingly, so try not to jump the gun.
Regards, A different guy named James Holmes
It wasn't a matter of if the dinosaur media would jump the gun but when. At least CBS retracted, but that still won't do much to alleviate the harassment this man will likely face anyway.
Speech you think it too soon to snark but this OP is about push factors in society that sets the nuts off, so it's not snarking but saying we need to take a very good look at what we are allowing in the name of art and what these people are attempting to achieve. Don't think I am aloof in this. Some years ago, I had my son riding around the country side on a stolen bike imitating the Terminator, we ultimately had a siege as he played out the phantasies built up from the movies. Other family members still carry the scars of those times.These things are very close to home
As a society we have taken the risk of tragedy in the name of civil liberty .It is too soon to attach a recognizable psycological factor that would've given any indication or forewarning of this mass murder. It is too simple to claim it is a comic book ,or a movie plot ,or some artists music that is the root cause . And what would your prescription be ?
My perscription Tom is to limit access to these presentations in a much more controlled manner. This can be done effectively in theatres but unfortunately once it gets to DVD all control goes out the window so the violent content must be limited at the source. We have to recognise that there are people in our midst who are more affected than most by these presentations and in the public good exercise restraint. I understand that in your society the concept of restraint is somewhat strange to you, like you heard of it but it doesn't apply to you, but one day the penny will drop and you will see you are reaping what you sow
What I understand is that millions of people will watch the movie this weekend and not be affected by it in any way . Whereas a loser who never saw the movie saw a target of opportunity to commit mass murder . In the days ahead we will find out more of this scum . What we will most likely learn is that he did not need a movie as an excuse .
Same old tired argument, it's like guns don't kill people, but in this case they did because they were allowed to get into the hands of a looney and the public were not protected, and get this the guns he had he had legally, which means to me controls are not tight enough there should be psychological examination before you are allowed to own guns. If he only had access to knives he wouldn't have done as much damage, but then I expect he would have settled for a spectacular explosion and where did he get his explosives?
He took on a persona from a movie, Tom, a seriously disturbed persona, and a person who made indiscriminate about use of guns and explosives, perhaps he was waiting for Batman to turn up, so don't tell me he was not affected by the movie, it obviously triggered something. As I said earlier I have personally seen this sort of thing before and the public need to be protected, for the greater good
That's right ;when seconds counted ,the police were minutes away . What good was gun control laws under that scenario ? The police were left to clean up the mess and arrest the killer AFTER the massacre .Quote:
in this case they did because they were allowed to get into the hands of a looney and the public were not protected,
No place in America has stricter gun laws than in Chicago ;yet most weekends it resembles the wild west . All the people killed by those illegal guns are still dead .
The Oklahoma City bombing was done with fertilizer. What else do you want to ban ? Guns ,ferilizer , violent movies... what else ? PhD's ?Quote:
but then I expect he would have settled for a spectacular explosion and where did he get his explosives?
Seriously Tom I want to ban looney's being able to get their hands on killing weapons and if that means they shut down Chigago and towns like it so be it. The ordinary people don't need guns and the police should be able to prevent criminals getting their hands on guns, explosives, fertilizer, or any other means of mass killing, even if that means you or I might be inconvenienced
The killer's apartment was rigged with explosive devices made of balloons filled with gasoline. I guess those items are on the list too .
You want one I'd go along with? The guy purchased ammo on the internet. That shouldn't happen .
ammo - Walmart.com
The National Rifle Association doesn't allow any government common sense bans, restrictions, or limitations on its 2nd amendment rights to bear arms, and plenty of them. This fellow had no prior record of being a loony, so he was entitled to buy a gun, or grenade which any idiot anywhere could purchase.
Whatever triggered him into action should be the real concern.
The Dark Knight - Some Men Just Want To Watch The World Burn - YouTubeQuote:
Whatever triggered him into action should be the real concern
This seems to be the point where I came in, it is a good question and it has to be rooted in the pysho inspired material he obviously became obscessed with.. . Liberty comes with responsibility, and it is not liberty to allow psycho inspired killers to roam free and have over the counter access to guns, explosives, etc. Tom says he shouldn't be able to buy ammunition on the internet, so in effect Tom wants to shut down internet commerce but leave the other businesses that supplied him in place. How does this solve the problem? FYI Tom it doesn't.Quote:
Whatever triggered him into action should be the real concern.
In my nation we found a solution to this sort of thing a few years ago, a solution impossible in the US, we removed certain weapons from the hands of the public. Outlawed them, compensated those who had to hand them in and destroyed the weapons, did we remove all guns from society?no, just the automatic, military weapons designed to kill large numbers of humans quickly. Of course we had the will and the desire that these mass killing events should not happen again and they haven't, murder and gun related crime has fallen. There are still hunters in our society, in fact, national parks were recently opened to hunters, but they won't suffer from indiscrimate blasting away with automatic weapons. Time to get real and decide what is important, life and liberty for all, or liberty for the lunatic fringe
But that won't make a hill-of-beans difference in preventing the next shooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Yup .you certainly can't blame the movie . 1949 James Cagney played as bad a bad guy as there ever was in White Heat. He literally went out in a ' blaze of glory ' in a shoot out . As he drew his last breath he shouted... "Made it, Ma! Top of the world!" He portrayed a psycho.
James Cagney in White Heat - Top of the World - YouTube.
Yet no one used the movie as an excuse to shoot up a theater ,or a school . It was not the availabilty of guns that was the deterent back then. It was the character of the civil society that was the deterent .
What you fail to recognise Tom is that cinematic"" ärt"" has changed a great deal since 1949, they have 3D which is mind altering for some and the use of graphics and the score shifts reality for the viewer. There are minds, however immature, that can be influenced to play out the scenario, for them it has becomes reality, if you couple this with drugs, who knows what you get, but a psycho like Holmes is a real possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
So to stop this sort of thing two things need to change, first; access to the psychotic depicition of depravity in any form and the glorification of these characterisations and two; access to guns and dangerous substances and yes, petrol should not be sold in containers any more than fertelizer should be sold for non agricultural purposes or gelignite sold to someone off the street or guns made available indiscrinimately. Business for business sake is not a good idea or liberty because it ignores the greater good, which is the protection of the citizens\
And as to the character of civil society, it has degenerated markedly since 1949 and to a stage those who framed your Constitution could not have contemplated. Personally I don't think they had regard for much beyond their own lifetime and circumstance
Let me know when you achieve that sanitized life in a bubble you seek.
I've heard that Switzerland has some of the most sensible gun laws in the world and violent crime is nearly unheard of. Gun control is only one factor however, I've heard that their mandatory military service teaches people discipline and respect for their country and fellow people, maybe America should look to them for ideas on how to prevent violence and teach morals in young people.
Agree but you see that is the sanitised society that Tom and his ilk can't abide, they see it as lacking freedom. America long ago decided that it would go its own way in many respects and now when it hasn't worked out well they don't want to change. Stupid pride stops themQuote:
Originally Posted by earl237
Or you could argue that an armed society is a polite one. Glad you like the Swiss model . The Swiss Confederation developed only a weak central government, leaving most authority in the hands of the cantons or lower levels of government. That was one thing the founders understood ,but we moved away from .
Where do you get this B/S? From the NRA? the Swiss society is a polite one not because it is armed but because it has discipline. The Swiss society exists as it does because large parts of the country are cut off for months in winter or used to be, necessity. The US is an armed society and it is not a polite one, in fact the opposite is true, more people incarcarated, more murders and violent behaviour. Do you think there is a correlation between gun ownership and violence? Look at the statistics. In our case, reduced gun ownership, reduced violence, direct correlation and I bet it works the same way in reverse for youQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Yeah I'm making it up . The Swiss and Israel both have high legal gun ownership and low murder rates . Chicago and other US cities have strict gun control and high murder rates. London had a relatively low murder rate that began to rise as the Brits made tougher gun control laws .
Gun control is pretty much a settled issue here. President Obama will not make it a political issue. Why ? Well the left says the NRA is so strong a lobby . But the NRA could NOT become a powerful lobby if they did not represent the vast majority opinion in the country.
While most people believe in the 2nd amendment, we can make some common sense changes to keep them out of the hands of the criminals, to keep them out of the wrong hands, like background checks, waiting periods, registration, and complete bans on assault rifles and clips that can make shooting a hundred people in a second possible. Banning the sale of cop killer ammo. And ban reselling guns without a dealer license. How about calling a cop for the buyers who buy heavy rifles by the case?
We can have our rights without the danger to the public by some loony nut case can't we? Or drug dealers? Like I say, common sense.
With the exception of the outright ban on "assault rifles " ,I could go along with all the other provisions . The founders added the militia clause for a reason ,and that was for the states having the power to 'regulate' the gun market. I for one think internet purchases of ammo should be looked at ;and no one needs 100 round clips for personal defense or hunting .Quote:
background checks, waiting periods, registration, and complete bans on assault rifles and clips that can make shooting a hundred people in a second possible. Banning the sale of cop killer ammo. And ban reselling guns without a dealer license. How about calling a cop for the buyers who buy heavy rifles by the case?
But ,none of that would've stopped this miscreant from what he did . So looking at gun laws as a panacea is wistful .
I doubt the founders could have imagined a rifle that shot a hundred times, but you are correct I think when you say you can't stop a criminal from doing what he intends to do. Not with a law. Evil finds a way.
I think it appropriate to quote here that great philosopher, Ice-T:
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Yeah, it's legal in the United States. It's part of our Constitution. You know, the right to bear arms is because that's the last form of defense against tyranny.
Tyranny is such a problem in this country. So glad I have a bunch of untrained, unregulated gun owners protecting me from it.
That'll be an interesting moment in your history when american citizens start shooting at government employees. Just like in some African countries.
Yeah you are surrounded by them in a city with one of the toughest gun laws in th nation. Good thing they are regulated in Chi-town.
Yeah that could never happen in CanadaQuote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
http://news.sympatico.ctvnews.ca/can...hours/7abffc18
That has nothing at all to do with what I wrote. Nice try though.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
So you guys don't understand the concept of deterrence.
Evil doesn't care about deterence. Deterence only works on those with a conscious.
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